Water and Spirit

There are two simple points here.
1. You cannot be human unless you are born from a womb in a mother, which is about breaking the
water, to sack in which one grows and is protected as you develop inside your mother.

2. You cannot be part of the Kingdom of heaven unless one has the Holy Spirit and is born from above.

These two points are not arguable, they are what scripture teaches.
What can be argued is whether Jesus meant a natural birth or baptism, as baptism involves water.

So those who disagree without commenting on this point easily create the wrong impression.
And dissension at this level seems unhelpful. The elect know their inheritance and do not need to
object. Praise the Lord, He knows who are His, thank you Jesus that we can rest in you, and praise you
that your people listen to your voice and follow you, Amen.

My example was not a pretense toward a "model", but simply an example of the need for compliance toward God's instructions. Regardless of who had to comply, the need to comply was necessary. Without that act, death would have come upon that household.

Example: Jesus told the blind man to go and wash off the mud at the Pool of Siloam in order to receive the blessing of sight. There was no merit in the blind man washing, just simple compliance to God's instructions. But without the blind man's compliance he would have never received the blessing that was freely offered to him.

The Bible is full of these examples.

Physical human birth is never expressed as being born of water in the bible. Jesus was not telling Nicodemus a person must have a physical birth, if He did He would have used the common term, "born of woman". Nicodemus was confused. When Jesus said "born again" he took it as a natural birth. Jesus explained that in order to see the Kingdom of God one must experience the baptism of water and the baptism of spirit. The labeling of amniotic fluid as water is a modern phenomenon and nothing that the Jews of that time would have understood. BTW amniotic fluid is as much water as it is urine.

On the issue of the elect, there are two types of people who "know" their inheritance. The elect and those who just think they are the elect.

That is correct. It would be totally redundant and irrelevant in a discourse about spiritual things. In the Bible water is used as a metaphor for (1) the Word of God (the Gospel), and (2) the Holy Spirit.

I am sure that everyone that gave you a red X was not ignorant of what is the truth. Perhaps you would consider reexamining your position on this topic.

Joh 3:1 There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:
Joh 3:2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.
Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

A prime example of a carnally minded person.
You are assuming Jesus was associating the water with the flesh or the natural, and the spirit with the spirit, as though each statement was about the same thing, or tying verses 5 and 6 together, as though the second statement was expounding on the first, when in reality, verse 5 is expounding on Jesus' first statement in verse 3.
In verse 6 Jesus is answering Nicodemus' question about entering the womb of the mother a second time, NOT associating the flesh with natural water or that of the mother's womb.
To say the least, it is nonsensical to even suggest Jesus would be stupid enough to say, 'we must first be born into this natural world before we can enter into God's heavenly world'.
Not to be mean, but that would include,... I don't know,... EVERYONE???!!!
In verse 6, Jesus separates being born of the flesh from being born of the spirit, NOT tying the flesh and spirit together.
Nowhere in scripture is this belief/theory supported.
The water is the word of God, plain and simple.

Joh 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

The gospel of Jesus Christ IS SPIRIT, and we are born again by the truth of the gospel.

Eph 5:26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,

Joh 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

And how can anyone ignore the fact, we must both eat and drink Jesus' flesh and blood respectively?

Joh 6:53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.
Joh 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
Joh 6:55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.
Joh 6:56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

The blood is made of both blood and water, is it not?

Joh 19:34 But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.

Remember, THERE IS NO LIFE IN ANYONE WITHOUT THE BLOOD OF JESUS IN THEM.
So what is the water and what is the blood?
I believe we already established, the spiritual water in scripture is the word of God. I think it's not just the word of God, but more specifically, the TRUTH of the gospel or God's word.
Jesus said He was the way, the TRUTH, and the life, but it is also written He was full of both grace and truth.
Aren't we saved BY GRACE through faith IN THE TRUTH OF THE GOSPEL OF JESUS the Anointed One/Christ/Messiah?
The blood of Jesus is the Spirit of God or a spirit of The Spirit of God the Father and of Jesus the Son.
The life of the body is in the blood, and every body without a spirit is dead.

1Co 15:38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

And isn't the word of God a seed of God?

Luk 8:5 A sower went out to sow his seed:
Luk 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

Then the word of God or the gospel of Jesus, must have a body for the Spirit of God to give it life.
So the spiritual blood of Jesus is the Holy Spirit or a spirit of and from The Spirit of God, and the water is the word of God itself.

John 3:4-6
“How can a man be born when he is old?” Nicodemus asked. “Can he enter his mother’s womb a second time to be born?” Jesus answered,, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh is born of flesh, but spirit is born of the Spirit".

In reference to being born in regards to baptism Jesus stated that flesh is born of flesh. He does not say that you must be baptized by being born of water but rather flesh is born of flesh and spirit is born of the Spirit. This is contrary to your stated position that you must be both baptized in water and baptized in spirit.

Apparently, this is an instance in the bible that human birth is expressed as being born of water.

I think you are 100 percent correct, and hit the nail on the head.
The water is the word and the Spirit is the Holy Spirit, as you said.
Both of which, I believe, is the blood of Jesus, the very thing we must drink to have eternal life.

Please read post 46 in response to the above verses.

I did read post 46 and it is still clear to me that the term 'born of water' is referring to childbirth and not water baptism otherwise Jesus would not have used the term 'flesh is born of flesh' but rather said 'but' which negates that as being escential to salvation. What is critical is being born of the spirit.

Even John the Baptist said the he baptizes with water but the one coming after him (Jesus) will baptize with the Holy Spirit and fire. I believe that water baptism is a type referring to the real saving baptism of the Holy Spirit and fire for without this type of baptism there is no salvation. Salvation is a prelude to this saving baptism. It seals the deal. That is what I believe.

Problem with your theology is that as you do not know the truth of John 3:5 and therefore choose not to
submit to the commandments of God then you are most likely not of the elect.
Water baptism is a commandment of God as well as Holy Spirit baptism.
Read Acts and the epistles it is all there for you to believe and to obey.

I don't know how you could have read what I wrote and think I was talking about water baptism.
In a nutshell, I said the water was or represented the word of God.
It has nothing to do with baptism.
Would you care to read it again, now that you have a better understanding of what I was saying?

NO - water is cleansing and washing - purification
but in the NT water baptism is symbolic of death, burial and resurrection to a new life.

the Holy Spirit is always represented by olive oil - not water
in the NT the baptism of the Holy Spirit is the power of God to live and continue in walking in the light
and how do we all know that we have received the baptism of the Holy Spirit?
the sign clearly written of - speaking forth in a new tongue.

Only that it's a poor argument to use in your defense.

I read post 46 again. It says washing with water by the Word but not clear at all from this verse that water is representative of the Word but rather the Word has cleansing properties. You suppled some very interesting verses though in regards to this topic that are worth considering.

Smacks of arrogance but we probably have all been guilty of that at one time or another myself included. We are just human after all

I pray you do so, while seeking God with an honest heart to know what the truth is.
You have gone further than most to even consider some of the scriptures presented to you, and for that, I thank you a

and pray God reveal every truth you are open to receive.
Sorry 'bout that. Don't know why the last part didn't go through.

God bless you for your kind words.