While I now believe in the sinful nature again

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#61
May 23, 2016
4,314
1,442
113
#61
LW97 said:
Click to expand...
The speaker in the video equates the flesh with the old man (old nature). The problem is that those two things are not the same. The Christian has the new nature (new man) given by Jesus at the new birth and still also has the flesh. But the old man died (see Romans 6).

I would not say the Christian has two natures: I would say he has the new man (nature) and still has the flesh.
 
Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#62
May 23, 2016
4,314
1,442
113
#62
Chester said:
The speaker in the video equates the flesh with the old man (old nature). The problem is that those two things are not the same. The Christian has the new nature (new man) given by Jesus at the new birth and still also has the flesh. But the old man died (see Romans 6).

I would not say the Christian has two natures: I would say he has the new man (nature) and still has the flesh.
Click to expand...
Ah, how did I do that! Pulled an old thread out of the archives - I somehow missed the dating on it - so I will laugh at myself before you can laugh at me! :eek:
 
S

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#63
Dec 9, 2011
14,119
1,800
113
#63
Chester said:
The speaker in the video equates the flesh with the old man (old nature). The problem is that those two things are not the same. The Christian has the new nature (new man) given by Jesus at the new birth and still also has the flesh. But the old man died (see Romans 6).

I would not say the Christian has two natures: I would say he has the new man (nature) and still has the flesh.
Click to expand...
Maybe you mean old man as the way a human being thinks and the flesh Is the part of us that houses the mind.

Romans 7:20-23
King James Version

20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:

23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#64
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#64
Jesus was clear in what he said to his saved, immersed disciples.....

The spirit is indeed willing, but the flesh is weak.

These words, along with Paul's words prove beyond a doubt the conflict between the two natures......and before any fool tries to say Paul contradicted Jesus....He was taught by direct revelation from Jesus.....the words of Paul are the words of Jesus unless NOTED by Paul on the few occasions where he took the liberty to express his own personal view.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#65
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,774
113
#65
While (Why?) I now believe in the sinful nature again
Click to expand...
We are not asked to believe in the sinful nature. It is already there.

But we are commanded to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
 
theanointedwinner

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
#66
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
1,125
113
#66
Nehemiah6 said:
We are not asked to believe in the sinful nature. It is already there.

But we are commanded to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...
and what are suggestions nehemiah would like to share on overecoming the sin nature?
 
MessageOfTheCross

MessageOfTheCross

Senior Member
#68
Sep 3, 2016
6,344
530
113
#68
dcontroversal said:
the words of Paul are the words of Jesus unless NOTED by Paul on the few occasions where he took the liberty to express his own personal view.
Click to expand...
Every word of the epistles of Paul was anointed by the Holy Spirit and not of the flesh.

But God forbid that I should glory, save in the Cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. Gal. 6:14
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#69
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#69
MessageOfTheCross said:
Every word of the epistles of Paul was anointed by the Holy Spirit and not of the flesh.

But God forbid that I should glory, save in the Cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world. Gal. 6:14
Click to expand...
You obviously do not know what you are talking about....no honesty either...but most of us already knew that.....
 
Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#70
May 23, 2016
4,314
1,442
113
#70
theanointedwinner said:
and what are suggestions nehemiah would like to share on overecoming the sin nature?
Click to expand...
If you are born again, the "sin nature" died with Christ, and now you are raised with Christ - you have the divine nature of Christ in you. But you still have the flesh to battle with daily.
 
theanointedwinner

theanointedwinner

Well-known member
#71
Nov 6, 2018
2,058
1,125
113
#71
Chester said:
If you are born again, the "sin nature" died with Christ, and now you are raised with Christ - you have the divine nature of Christ in you. But you still have the flesh to battle with daily.
Click to expand...
what's the difference between sin nature and the flesh?
 
FollowHisSteps

FollowHisSteps

Well-known member
#74
Feb 15, 2019
3,674
1,201
113
#74
LW97 said:
Yes, it's our choice where to walk and we have a choice.
Click to expand...
The knowledge of good and evil brings with it the temptation of the reward for sinful behaviour.
The complexity is the things we need are not wrong or not necessary, but the way we obtain it
and the reasons for obtaining it, and then how we use it are important.

Desire is important, but constraint and honesty are the path.
God desired to bring a people of His own into eternity. His people will reflect His very nature and
exercise His authority, to share the throne with Christ.

How can such a position and authority not corrupt anyone, except those who know the walk of
love and giving, meeting need and seeing opportunity in the situations that offer themselves every
day.
 
MessageOfTheCross

MessageOfTheCross

Senior Member
#75
Sep 3, 2016
6,344
530
113
#75
The sin nature has been separated, not eliminated in a Christian life. This evil nature is always present in our current bodies. Victory only comes by Faith in Christ and the Cross. We must acknowledge that we need the GRACE of God to overcome the sins we repeat. The operation of the Holy Spirit is accomplished through Faith and Grace.

Every failure in a Christian life is caused by us resulting to the flesh and trying to do what needs to be done by the means of the flesh, which is guaranteed to fail. When the Believer attempts to function outside of the Cross, the situation becomes impossible. Sin and failure are the constant results, no matter how hard one may try otherwise.
 
MessageOfTheCross

MessageOfTheCross

Senior Member
#76
Sep 3, 2016
6,344
530
113
#76
Sanctification is not automatic. We enter into sanctification by the Believers Faith placed and maintained exclusively in Christ [Who He Is] and the Cross of Calvary where the victory was won [what He has done] (Hebrews 11:6). This is called the Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus - Romans 8:2. This allows the Holy Spirit to baptize the Believer into the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, so that the life of Christ is manifested through the power of the Holy Spirit in the Believers life [it is His life that brings the victory - not ours] Matthew 5:8, John 1:12, John 14:21, Romans 6:3-5, Galatians 2:20-21, 2 Corinthians 4:11

The Lord has given us everything we need regarding life and living - and we receive these great and Precious Promises THROUGH THE KNOWLEDGE OF HIM [what Christ did at the Cross]. 2 Peter 1:1-4

VERY - VERY IMPORTANT: The Believer must stay in His death, burial, and resurrection and are, therefore, victorious (It is Jesus Christ life that brings victory - not ours). That is the only way we are triumphant in Christ (II Cor. 2:14). And that is the only way He can work in us both to will (change our desires), and to do (give us the power of the Holy Spirit) (Phil. 2:13)

This is the only way we receive the life of Jesus Christ to manifest in our lives so that we receive all the benefits of this Resurrection life (Luke 9:23).

There are two kinds of peace with God the Father:

1. Justifying Peace - This is Peace with God, a legal standing (Romans 5:1, 8:7; Ephesians 2:14-15).

2. Sanctifying Peace - This is the Peace of God in the heart (Romans 8:6, 14:19, 15:13; Galatians 1:3; 1 Thessalonians 5:23).

The first is the result of a legal standing. The second is the result of the Work of the Holy Spirit. The first is static, never fluctuates, the second changes almost from hour to hour. The first, every Christian has, the second, every Christian may have.

Sanctifying peace allows the Holy Spirit to deliver the Believer into the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, so that the life of Christ is manifested and lived through the Believer by the power of the Holy Spirit. This is a living sacrifice that is pleasing and acceptable to God (Matthew 5:8; John 14:21; Romans 8:2, 13; 2 Corinthians 4:11; Galatians 2:20-21).

The majority of Christians know nothing about the Cross of Christ for sanctification. Justification delivers us from the penalty of sin, while sanctification delivers us from the power of sin. The Cross of Christ is as necessary for sanctification as it is for salvation (1 Cor. 1:18).

We submit to God by the Plan He has provided, which is the Cross. We resist the Devil by strictly looking to Christ, and what He has done for us at the Cross, where Satan was totally defeated (Colossians 2:14-15).
 
MessageOfTheCross

MessageOfTheCross

Senior Member
#77
Sep 3, 2016
6,344
530
113
#77
Everything we receive from the Lord, including Sanctification, is a work of Grace. Grace is simply the Goodness of God extended to undeserving people. the whole process is by Faith, as the whole process can only be by Faith.

JSM

The sin nature is a result of the Fall. When the believing sinner comes to Christ, the sin nature is made ineffective (Rom. 6:6). It will remain ineffective if the believer maintains unceasing Faith in Christ and the Cross (Rom. 6:1-14). If the believer ceases to look to Christ and the Cross, but rather makes something else the object of his faith—no matter how good the something else might be—the Holy Spirit will not function in such an atmosphere. He demands exclusively that our Faith be in Christ and the Cross (Rom. 8:1-2,11). If faith is moved to something else, the believer will find himself once again being ruled by the sin nature. That's why Paul said, "Neither yield you your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin (the sin nature): but yield yourselves unto God (which refers to God's Way, which is Christ and the Cross)" (Rom. 6:3-5, 13). Otherwise, the sin nature will rule the believer.

JSM
 
MessageOfTheCross

MessageOfTheCross

Senior Member
#78
Sep 3, 2016
6,344
530
113
#78
The Believer must stay in His death, burial, and resurrection and are, therefore, victorious (It is Jesus Christ life that brings victory - not ours). That is the only way we are triumphant in Christ (2 Corinthians 2:14, 2 Corinthians 4:11; 3 John 1:2). And that is the only way He can work in us both to will (change our desires), and to do (give us the power of the Holy Spirit) (Phil. 2:13).

This is the only way we receive the life of Jesus Christ to manifest in our lives so that we receive all the benefits of this Resurrection life (Psalms 103:2, Luke 9:23).

We submit to God's plan by placing and maintaining our Faith exclusively in Christ and the Cross of Calvary where all victory was purchased, and by the precious, shed Blood of Jesus Christ (Rom. 6:1-14; 8:1-2, 11 1 Cor. 1:17-18, 23; 2:2; Galatians 5; Gal. 6:14; Eph. 2:13-18; Col. 2:14-15).
 
MessageOfTheCross

MessageOfTheCross

Senior Member
#79
Sep 3, 2016
6,344
530
113
#79
Romans 7

15 For that which I do (the failure) I allow not (should have been translated, "I understand not"; these are not the words of an unsaved man, as some claim, but rather a Believer who is trying and failing): for what I would, that do I not (refers to the obedience he wants to render to Christ, but rather fails; why? As Paul explained, the Believer is married to Christ, but is being unfaithful to Christ by spiritually cohabiting with the Law, which frustrates the Grace of God; that means the Holy Spirit will not help such a person, which guarantees failure [Gal. 2:21]); but what I hate, that do I (refers to sin in his life hates, but finds himself unable to stop; unfortunately, due to the fact of not understanding the Cross as it refers to Sanctification, this is the plight of most modern Christians).

16 If then I do that which I would not (presents Paul doing something against his will; he doesn't want to do it, and is trying not to do it, whatever it might be, but finds himself doing it anyway), I consent unto the Law that it is good (simply means that the Law of God is working as it is supposed to work; it defines sin, portraying the fact that the sin nature will rule in man's heart if not addressed properly).

17 Now then it is no more I that do it (this has been misconstrued by many! it means, "I may be failing, but it's not what I want to do "; no true Christian wants to sin because now the Divine Nature is in his life and it is supposed to rule, not the sin nature [2 Peter 1:4]), but sin (the sin nature) that dwells in me (despite the fact that some Preachers claim the sin nature is gone from the Christian, Paul here plainly says that the sin nature is still in the Christian; however, if our Faith remains constant in the Cross, the sin nature will be dormant, causing us no problem; otherwise, it will cause great problems; while the sin nature "dwells" in us, it is not to "rule" in us).

18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwells no good thing (speaks of man's own ability, or rather the lack thereof in comparison to the Holy Spirit, at least when it comes to spiritual things): for to will is present with me (Paul is speaking here of his willpower; regrettably, most modern Christians are trying to live for God by means of willpower, thinking falsely that since they have come to Christ, they are now free to say "no" to sin; that is the wrong way to look at the situation; the Believer cannot live for God by the strength of willpower; it alone is not enough; the Believer must exercise Faith in Christ, which automatically says, "no" to the things of the world); but how to perform that which is good I find not (outside of the Cross, it is impossible to find a way to do good).

JSM - The Expositor's Study Bible
 
MessageOfTheCross

MessageOfTheCross

Senior Member
#80
Sep 3, 2016
6,344
530
113
#80
Romans 7

19 For the good that I would I do not (if I depend on self, and not the Cross): but the evil which I would not (don't want to do), that I do (which is exactly what every Believer will do no matter how hard he tries to do otherwise, if he tries to live this outside of the Cross [Gal. 2:20-21]).

20 Now if I do that I would not (which is exactly what will happen if the Believer tries to live this life outside of God's Prescribed Order), it is no more I that do it, but sin (the sin nature) that dwells in me (this emphatically states that the Believer has a sin nature; in the original Greek Text, if it contains the definite article before the word "sin" which originally did read "the sin," it is not speaking of acts of sin, but rather the sin nature or the evil nature; the idea is not getting rid of the sin nature, which actually cannot be done, but rather controlling it, which the Apostle has told us how to do in Rom., Chapters. 6 and 8; when the Trump sounds, we will be changed and there will be no more sin nature [Rom. 8:23]).

JSM - The Expositor's Study Bible
 
You must log in or register to reply here.