Not By Works

25 just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her
26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,
27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.
Eph 6

14 Do everything without complaining or arguing,
15 so that you may become blameless and pure, children of God without fault in a crooked and
depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe
16 as you hold out the word of life--in order that I may boast on the day of Christ that I did not run or labor for nothing.
Phil 2

5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person--such a man is an idolater--
has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5

How evil is evil and how good is good?
Korah and his rebellion he thought he was right, and so did many other Israelites, but they died at the hand of God.
So we must be cautious, and listen to Jesus and follow the way of life.

It is easy to make others appear evil, deceivers, full of hatred, and yet they are innocent, loving, caring and true.
This has been the history of the church and its enemies. The church is called to be the light to the world of what love
in our hearts can do, and how this is the Kingdom of Heaven come to man. But you would not think this from the
way some react and share. Praise God for His people and His grace that is alive in the hearts of His people, Amen.

And when you know love, and the Holy Spirit overwhelming ones soul, there is no longer arguments or trying to
win a position, it is just praise to our Lord and King who gave up everything that we might have life in Him, Amen.

this is not about " winning a position ".

it is about the real Gospel vs. a fake, ,man- made gospel.

believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved. walking just as He walked comes AFTER salvation. these two separate things cannot be conflated.

when you conflate them, you make up a fake, man-made gospel.

My friend, if you want to make a position you need to actually describe it properly.
You are saying I conflate them. Unless you can say what you mean, in true theological terms and then
show that I have said this, you are just projecting your own ideas on to me.

Who gives us salvation? Jesus. Who is salvation? Jesus. What is walking in the light, being born of the
Kingdom? In Christ we are all these things. And our walk reflects the change in our hearts, the outflow
of the Holy Spirit working and purifying us as we walk.

Two dilemmas exist. Some will believe they know the Lord and do not, while others appear to walk faithfully and
lose direction, and abuse the way of the Lord and are lost.

I have met examples of both of this. Thankfully I am not a judge and desire to walk as Jesus walked,

20 A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out, till he leads justice to victory.
21 In his name the nations will put their hope
Matt 10

Our hearts desire to walk righteously and in love. We are encouraged to encourage one another to love and
good works. And that is enough for me.

If you want to judge this as a fake gospel, that is your choice, I just praise the Lord He saved me from sin and
death to walk with Him in His ways. Amen.

I do wonder what kind of world people live in that creates and uses words such as these.
I have great respect for people who have been transformed by Jesus and walked in His ways.
But many a prophet and worker for the Lord has come unstuck and ended up undoing the
very work God has started in their lives.

We are just servants, and our wisdom and direction comes from Him alone, through the cross,
through repentance and humbleness, through the Holy Spirit and through His word. But our
hearts easily change what we see, and we do not perceive Gods work right in front of us, but
rather want to believe evil and deception where there is none while listening to the real deceiver.

17 A friend loves at all times, and a brother is born for adversity.
18 A man lacking in judgment strikes hands in pledge and puts up security for his neighbor.
Prov 17

8 He who gets wisdom loves his own soul; he who cherishes understanding prospers.
9 A false witness will not go unpunished, and he who pours out lies will perish.
Prov 19

Perhaps he misunderstood something you posted. To settle the issue once and for all, do you believe that a person is regenerated, justified, adopted, given eternal life, and positionally sanctified (set apart as holy to the Lord) by faith alone, without preceding works and that works follow? I ask this to clear up the apparently muddied waters.

Amen.

Amen to the first. As to the second, a true believer can lose direction and be brought back. Jesus will bring them back. A person who abuses the Way of the Lord is not abiding in Him.

I find GREAT comfort in this verse.

and hope does not make ashamed...

Amen. Titus 2:11-15

Nothing you said in this post is contrary to the Gospel. Amen to the last sentence

Yes.

AMEN Rose..........simple truth hey

HENCE the "plenteous in number" that end up being cast into the lake of fire.....they fully believed they knew the LORD and had right to enter because of the MANY wonderful works they have done in his name <---Most so called Christian religions peddle this farce in some form or fashion

32 When Mary reached the place where Jesus was and saw him, she fell at his feet and said,
"Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died."
33 When Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who had come along with her also weeping,
he was deeply moved in spirit and troubled.
34 "Where have you laid him?" he asked. "Come and see, Lord," they replied.
35 Jesus wept.
36 Then the Jews said, "See how he loved him!"

43 When he had said this, Jesus called in a loud voice, "Lazarus, come out!"
44 The dead man came out, his hands and feet wrapped with strips of linen, and a cloth around
his face. Jesus said to them, "Take off the grave clothes and let him go."
John 11

Jesus had such a tender heart. He empathised so much with Mary about Lazarus that He wept.
In some ways this is odd, because He knew He would raise Lazarus from the dead, yet He wept.

This speaks to me simply, we need to be open with empathetic hearts to know where people are and to
feel what they feel, no matter how difficult this is.

Those with hard hearts do not understand this, or even see the need because it is all beyond them.
I do wonder if anyone like this can ever claim to be mature in Christ, or know themselves, or
understand and know love? Some only discover their hearts at times of crisis and when things
change radically for them. Suddenly what was not important or they dismissed is like the most
important thing in their lives has been removed. If on the other hand it is just another day, maybe
things are not as they seem at all.

To know how much Christ loved us, we need to be open to love and to be loved, which may be fine at
a distance, but only without conditions. Maybe betrayal from missing fathers and abandonment issues
give individuals unbelief and doubt if there is any possibility of walking away cannot be trusted.

alrighty. I will take you at your word.

Thank you.
That is how we are to treat one another. The word of God is Jesus.
Everything we stand on in God, is founded on His word.

Yes that is what I believe.
All genuine belivers will want to live a life that is dedicated to and pleasing to God.
One that reflects the love and grace that God has towards us.

It's love that conquers all.
When we look at this and some of the stuff that Jesus talks about, he raises the bar.
As a man I only have to look at what he says about adultery.

As believers we only need to look at what he says about murder, going the extra mile, loving our enemies, fasting, praying, riches, worrying, judging, asking seeking and knocking.

He fulfilled the law in its true intent and came against the those who twisted to the true intent.

The fact is that it does show our failures as he raised the bar beyond what we think achievable. But in fact we can achieve such things.
Maybe not perfectly but we aspire to the cleansing of our hearts to walk the way he has asked us to.

What we need to realise though is that when we stumble we do not judge and condemn just as he said not to.

Matthew 7:4-5
4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove the speck from your eye’; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 5 Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

Notice how he says brother.
A brother should not be a hypocrite.
But one who seeks out a brother with love and compassion.
Sometimes gentle love and sometimes tough love.

There you go fellows. Another simple case of misunderstanding, apparently.

Does this mean I am now not a liar and preaching another gospel?
Because this makes me ask, what was all this abuse about?

If this is how strong believers in the faith are handled, God help enquirers.......

The problem is why such misunderstanding comes about.
There was a guy on here who used to use the word KISS.
"Keep it simple stupid"

This I agree with and disagree with.
I agree with keep it simple but disagree with stupid.
How many of us on here have had to realign the truth of what we believe to the truth that sets us free in Jesus.

A simple case for me was that I did not believe God loved me unless I did good works or was perfect or was just like Jesus.

That was my truth, but that is not the truth.
Jesus said "May they know that you love them as much as you love me"
He was praying for his disciples. People not like you and me who are not perfect.

Was I stupid?
I say no but I was deceived.

A lot of stuff could be resolved if we were honest.

What we need to realise though is that when we stumble we do not judge and condemn just as he said not to.

Amen. It is the willingness to be humble, to walk, to pick oneself up and walk on that matters.

we do not judge -
15 "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over."
Matt 18

we do not condemn -
17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.
Matt 18

There is a standard of walking with Jesus as a community we need to uphold.
So there is righteous judging and rebuking that we are called to do, about obvious sin and rebellion.

I have met some who reject doing this, and say we are not even meant to say anything about anothers
obvious sinful behaviour.

My attitude on this has always been to get alongside such people and see why and what is the issue,
because often things are not as they appear.

But praise the Lord it appears we have a similar view on Jesus and His path, Amen.

Except when you go read everything he wrote as Peterjens and the other name or two he has been found under.....You do understand that he does not believe this happens UNTIL one WALKS as he walked.....or maybe you have not been reading the thread.....

If there is one perfect moment, it would be the moment of salvation, other moments are imperfect

6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
1 John 2

Here is scripture, saying how we are to walk. With a born again heart, filled with the Holy Spirit this is
possible.

But for some to quote scripture and to obey scripture is not allowed.

If you are a person that was BANNED and came back under an assumed name, that is Deception.
If you are that person, then you are the type of person that believes in the End Justifies the Means, which is totally Wrong.
The correct way to come back is with the write the Management Staff, GET PERMISSION, and Come Back under the SAME NAME.

If you are not that person, I will apologize.