Not By Works

oh. I know Jesus . Jesus said the truth shall set you free. so, when I learn and accept the definitions of words, then I am living in truth.

so, when you refuse to accept the meaning of words, and believe the sick lie that Jesus only forgives, and not saves , then you are in bondage to trying to earn your salvation.

join me and many others who trust Christ for salvation, then carry out the life of living as He wants us to.

throw out your churches lies and join us and spread the Gospel- believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

I do not necessarily see two sides, one bad and one good in this discussion. I see two sides that may be misunderstanding one another. One side teaches security of the believer which I believe in. The other side teaches obedience after salvation not being optional, but God's will for us, which I also agree with. The error is including one and excluding the other, or thinking that the other guy is excluding the other, when perhaps he or she is not excluding the other side at all.

Just from my perspective.

Hi gb9,

You use the words "sick lie" "earn your salvation" - You live a very sheltered life.
All you need to do is start to talk to your fellow believers in church and you will discover the variety of
beliefs is vast, and few understand as you suggest.

As you miss-understand my position and those of the Nazarine church, I do not think things can progress.
Paul described the danger of what you are doing in these terms,

14 Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen.
2 Timothy 2

It saddens me that to aspire to walk in Jesus's ways, empowered by the Holy Spirit is a sick lie.
But then I can only imagine you feel you have the ability to raise yourself up above the word of God
and judge me, for simply sharing the word of the Lord.

25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
Gal 5

16 So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature.
17 For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to
the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want.
18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
Gal 5

5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person--such a man is an idolater--
has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
6 Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on
those who are disobedient.
7 Therefore do not be partners with them.
Eph 5

7 For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.
1 Thess 4

A reprobate does not understand how to live a holy life, so their opposition is to be expected.
God bless you.

I am happy to repeat the word of God to my last breath because it does not change or His ways.
And to Praise His name, brings joy to my heart, each and every day, no matter how many sinners
call His ways evil and a sick lie, earning ones salvation.

I agree with you. What I have found is some refuse to accept perspectives, but have created
a virulent antipathy, as exampled by gb9 calling a group "sick lie" "earning salvation"

One believer who actually went to a Nazarine church suggested it should be "stamped out"
And the anger expressed, comes from only one source, unresolved sin and hurt in their hearts.
Often they have no reluctance to declare it is satanic, and only inspired by spiritual deception.
And what triggers this anger. Holiness, righteousness, purity, truth, honesty, walking in the light,
repenting of sin, turning from evil and doing good.

Jesus is simple. Those who do evil deeds hate the light because of their evil deeds.
Until one has resolved everything to date, no individual can really speak the truth. It is so obvious,
from the people I have interacted with. I used an illustration weeks ago about our hearts being a
bucket, full of slop, or the Holy Spirit. Kick it a bit, and what comes out.

If people continue to read Gods word, it will change them, it will reform them, and they will see
things differently.

Ironic reactions. Emotions do not matter, only facts, says the believer shouting as loud as they can
and wanting to wring the neck of the other party. Emotions are governing everything in such an
interaction, because the emotions have risen up so high. But for individuals to realise they are not
what they think they are, is a shock. So my friends, start to listen to who you are, and let the Lord
lead you through. There is always hope, because you are reading this, so God bless you, Amen.

Thank you.

Wow, take care of yourself.

all right, if I mis-understand your or your church's beliefs, then we can settle it very easily.


the truth is that when one comes to Christ, that person is forgiven and saved the moment they truly believe and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior.

agree or disagree??

What is experiential righteousness? Would that not be walking upright? I don't see this in the scriptures unless you mean increasing light within?

And this question is just that. Not a challenge.

I agree, as soon as someone start walking with Jesus.

Here is my reason for the question:

Rom 8:30　 But the ones whomG3739 G1161 he predefined,G4309 theseG3778 alsoG2532 he called.G2564 AndG2532 whomG3739 he called,G2564 theseG3778 alsoG2532 he justified.G1344 And whomG3739 G1161 he justified,G1344 theseG3778 alsoG2532 he glorified.G1392

This is the ABP bible. I seem to be able to understand better with this one.

This is past, yet continuing. Here is the Geneva translation note.


He uses the past tense for the present time, as the Hebrews use, who sometimes describe something that is to come by using the past tense, to signify the certainty of it: and he also is referring to God's continual working.

Maybe I am misunderstanding your post, but we already have these each of these positions. We are rendered innocent or justified by being In Him.

So how is this all worked out? By our works? Or by His Spirit working? That's what I am trying to find out here.

I can see that the once saved, always saved has a valid point. Jesus has finished this all for us if we have been called and answered Him. That's the beginning. Now how is this worked out?

If I may...

What I perceive FHS, is that you are judging. I don't mean this as an insult, but we all can easily fall into this if we don't watch.

You aren't to judge yourself either. When we judge, we lose our identity. And our identity is not our self. That I as in I am crucified is translated as ego which is the fallen heart of every human being. When born again, that I is no longer active but is crucified. Yet, our old way of thinking must understand this and be renewed in the truth. So...what is our identity?

Our identity is Jesus and His life. His perfect life that fulfilled the laws of God for each and every man/woman. He did this for us. And this is the good news. We are safe in Him. He has overcome all things for us.

When we don't realize these things, we are subject to being overcome by what is past issues.

The churches failure has been to know and understand the power of the Cross. But, this is changing. So get ready!

Just a quick question - are any of you members of any other christian forums? If so, would you share? I know this question should be under another topic but this thread is about the only one I use on this site?

I am not sure what you mean by judging.
You are saying by realizing our identity, we are no longer overcome by past issues.

What do you mean?

Basically you do not agree based on your above response to GB.

You come across as saying that someone is saved when they start walking with Jesus and not by their faith in Jesus as accepting him as Lord.

So faith has no bearing on salvation but the works that follow.
If that is the case then one has to identify, quantify and qualify what that walk entails and when it started.

I could be wrong and have misunderstood what you are trying to convey.

The fact is that we are exhorted as believers to walk like Jesus.
Let our light shine, be salt, have a faith that shows up.

But my concern concerning your response is that people can look at the external and disregard the internal, the heart.

So at the end of the day.
Saved by faith or by our walk?
Faith is the constant here but not necessarily that walk.

He cannot do that....Seohce, Argueless A.K.A. "C" cannot help but peddle his false accusations......helps his Catholic dogma.....

Not me....I tried a few and they were a joke.....10 times as many deceivers, workers for, salvation losers....

You did not ask questions, YOU HURLED ACCUSATIONS, in my opinion.


Do you even know what BORN AGAIN is exactly?

Do you even know the Difference between Salvation and Sanctification?

How do you KNOW when you are SAVED?


Now there are Three questions, the I do not think you can even come close to answering correctly.

I'll help that guy out, for the first question, hint: nothing physical, which rule out works

For the second question, I hope s/he was paying attention to my conversation with VCO about this

We talked about it for days already

I even started a thread on this just because how inspiring the clarity of this understanding becomes,

question is, was s/he paying attention?

The answer for question two is laid out here