Not By Works
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I would like to add that it's not just us telling people and "preaching", that testifies. If a lifelong mean alcoholic put's it down overnight and begins to make amends with the ones around him because of a radical salvation, that is a POWERFUL testament of His power right away with no words. That highlights a bigger point, "we" do nothing, after being born again it's God working through us. We get no credit, but the example of a change in us to those in the world who know us is again , POWERFUL all praise to Jesus. "Fruit" is just the result of God in us, not certain "good deeds" or anything like that. A work God has produced in me is I smile at people so much more, instead of looking for a reason to be offended or fight. That is a "fruit" in me. It doesn't mean some certain "big thing" you have to do now.
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Purity
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another,
and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
1 John 1
Do you know Gods purification of your heart?
Paul calls us to not be impure but to be Holy.
The impure will not inherit eternal life.
7 For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.
1 Thess 4
5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person--
such a man is an idolater--has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5
Some will claim you can be as impure as you like, if you have faith you are saved
and know God. They are lying, pure and simple. The impures only hope is repentance
and being cleansed, and then they will see God.
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another,
and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.
1 John 1
Do you know Gods purification of your heart?
Paul calls us to not be impure but to be Holy.
The impure will not inherit eternal life.
7 For God did not call us to be impure, but to live a holy life.
1 Thess 4
5 For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person--
such a man is an idolater--has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5
Some will claim you can be as impure as you like, if you have faith you are saved
and know God. They are lying, pure and simple. The impures only hope is repentance
and being cleansed, and then they will see God.
It seems obvious that many conflate the issue of fruit and works........the bible clearly states what the FRUITS of the Spirit ARE....and yet many will say the works = fruit.........The bible equates the works to the result of FAITH.....and it even further states that we as LIVING sacrifices will allow CHRIST to bear or work through US.......I have said and will say it again using the analogy of a tree....
What produces the fruit on a tree?
a. The root
b. The branches
THE root is what produces and the branches BEAR IT <---if we remain in Christ and he remains in us WE WILL BEAR the FRUIT.....apart from CHRIST we can do nothing.......
The word remain means to BE consistent, steadfast.........so.......what is being discussed when John 15 speaks of us bearing much fruit?
SEE......that is where the conversation goes south.......Do we believe that JESUS is speaking of us making converts, doing good deeds etc.....or is he speaking of the FRUITS of the SPIRIT being fully developed and matured in believers?
Notice that PETER states that if we ADD to our faith the big 7 we will not be UNFRUITFUL........unfruitful IN WHAT?
"But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ
What produces the fruit on a tree?
a. The root
b. The branches
THE root is what produces and the branches BEAR IT <---if we remain in Christ and he remains in us WE WILL BEAR the FRUIT.....apart from CHRIST we can do nothing.......
The word remain means to BE consistent, steadfast.........so.......what is being discussed when John 15 speaks of us bearing much fruit?
SEE......that is where the conversation goes south.......Do we believe that JESUS is speaking of us making converts, doing good deeds etc.....or is he speaking of the FRUITS of the SPIRIT being fully developed and matured in believers?
Notice that PETER states that if we ADD to our faith the big 7 we will not be UNFRUITFUL........unfruitful IN WHAT?
"But also for this very reason, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue, to virtue knowledge, to knowledge self-control, to self-control perseverance, to perseverance godliness, to godliness brotherly kindness, and to brotherly kindness love. For if these things are yours and abound, you will be neither barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ
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9 But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has
forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.
10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure.
For if you do these things, you will never fall
2 Peter 1
These verses talk about something profound.
If we do not have the big 8, we have forgotten we have been cleansed from our past sins.
Past sins, not present sins or future sins.
And why should we hold closely to these 8 principles faith, goodness, knowledge, self-control,
perseverance, godliness, brotherly kindness, love.
If we do so we will never fall. But this suggests we could fall, which again is profound.
Amen, thank you Apostle Peter, so clear, so simple, walk in His ways and make our calling sure.
forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins.
10 Therefore, my brothers, be all the more eager to make your calling and election sure.
For if you do these things, you will never fall
2 Peter 1
These verses talk about something profound.
If we do not have the big 8, we have forgotten we have been cleansed from our past sins.
Past sins, not present sins or future sins.
And why should we hold closely to these 8 principles faith, goodness, knowledge, self-control,
perseverance, godliness, brotherly kindness, love.
If we do so we will never fall. But this suggests we could fall, which again is profound.
Amen, thank you Apostle Peter, so clear, so simple, walk in His ways and make our calling sure.
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I gave my thoughts about 20,000 pages back.
I think it is fruit of the spirit.
We need to look at the preceding verses
Galatians 5:19-26
Results of the Sinful Nature
19 When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division,
21 envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
Fruit of the Spirit
22 But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things!
Follow the Spirit’s Leading
24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed the passions and desires of their sinful nature to his cross and crucified them there.
25 Since we are living by the Spirit, let us follow the Spirit’s leading in every part of our lives.
26 Let us not become conceited, or provoke one another, or be jealous of one another.
So to me the fruit of the Spirit drives out the works of the flesh (19-21 above)
Furthermore we know Jesus said "You shall know them by their fruits"
I know this has to do with false prophets/teachers but the point for me is that preaching Jesus in order to gain or an easy meal ticket is the warning here.
I know some on here feel that telling people about Jesus is a fruit.
I personally do not think it is a fruit.
A person can tell people about Jesus but can have no desire to bear fruit, to be conformed to the image of Jesus.
The great commission is telling people about Jesus, baptising and discipling.
I do not see that as fruit.
Possibly discipleship is because that can encompass the fruit of the spirit.
It's not what we say as such that counts but it's by the way we show it that counts.
I think it is fruit of the spirit.
We need to look at the preceding verses
Galatians 5:19-26
Results of the Sinful Nature
19 When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures,
20 idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division,
21 envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
Fruit of the Spirit
22 But the Holy Spirit produces this kind of fruit in our lives: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, and self-control. There is no law against these things!
Follow the Spirit’s Leading
24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have nailed the passions and desires of their sinful nature to his cross and crucified them there.
25 Since we are living by the Spirit, let us follow the Spirit’s leading in every part of our lives.
26 Let us not become conceited, or provoke one another, or be jealous of one another.
So to me the fruit of the Spirit drives out the works of the flesh (19-21 above)
Furthermore we know Jesus said "You shall know them by their fruits"
I know this has to do with false prophets/teachers but the point for me is that preaching Jesus in order to gain or an easy meal ticket is the warning here.
I know some on here feel that telling people about Jesus is a fruit.
I personally do not think it is a fruit.
A person can tell people about Jesus but can have no desire to bear fruit, to be conformed to the image of Jesus.
The great commission is telling people about Jesus, baptising and discipling.
I do not see that as fruit.
Possibly discipleship is because that can encompass the fruit of the spirit.
It's not what we say as such that counts but it's by the way we show it that counts.
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S0 we interpret allegories and parables according to what nature tells us about the symbols?
I also know how long it takes wheat to grow too...about 7-8 months. So let's apply the logic of your argument to the parable of the wheat and the tares.
Matthew 13: 24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way.26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, (in seven or eight months) and at the time of harvest (IN SEVEN OR EIGHT MONTHS) I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”
When did tares begin to be planted in the Kingdom?
A lot more than seven or eight months ago.
Therefore, the length of time it takes for wheat to grow doesn't say anything about the meaning of the parable. The same is true with the tree analogy.
You are making it walk on all fours, a common but fatal exegetical error.
I also know how long it takes wheat to grow too...about 7-8 months. So let's apply the logic of your argument to the parable of the wheat and the tares.
Matthew 13: 24 Another parable He put forth to them, saying: “The kingdom of heaven is like a man who sowed good seed in his field; 25 but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way.26 But when the grain had sprouted and produced a crop, then the tares also appeared. 27 So the servants of the owner came and said to him, ‘Sir, did you not sow good seed in your field? How then does it have tares?’ 28 He said to them, ‘An enemy has done this.’ The servants said to him, ‘Do you want us then to go and gather them up?’ 29 But he said, ‘No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them. 30 Let both grow together until the harvest, (in seven or eight months) and at the time of harvest (IN SEVEN OR EIGHT MONTHS) I will say to the reapers, “First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn.”
When did tares begin to be planted in the Kingdom?
A lot more than seven or eight months ago.
Therefore, the length of time it takes for wheat to grow doesn't say anything about the meaning of the parable. The same is true with the tree analogy.
You are making it walk on all fours, a common but fatal exegetical error.
Does it take a period of growth and maturity to bear the fruit you are speaking of?
...and what kind of fruit is Matthew 13:23 speaking of?
Matthew 13:23- 23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”
...and what kind of fruit is Matthew 13:23 speaking of?
Matthew 13:23- 23 But he who received seed on the good ground is he who hears the word and understands it, who indeed bears fruit and produces: some a hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.”
Here's the fact...
The parable of the wheat and tares.
Wheat takes 6-7 months to grow
Jesus said the wheat and the tares will grow together until the end of the age.
Tares were being planted in the first century.
Therefore,
a. if the wheat and tares grow together from the planting (first century) till the end of the age,
b. and if the end of the age is the same ammount of time it takes wheat to grow,
c.That would be seven or eight months after the tares were planted.Therefore, by your logic, the end of the age happened in the FIRST CENTURY.
Anyone who wants to think about it for a couple minutes can see what I am saying. If you are capable of abstract thought.
The parable of the wheat and tares.
Wheat takes 6-7 months to grow
Jesus said the wheat and the tares will grow together until the end of the age.
Tares were being planted in the first century.
Therefore,
a. if the wheat and tares grow together from the planting (first century) till the end of the age,
b. and if the end of the age is the same ammount of time it takes wheat to grow,
c.That would be seven or eight months after the tares were planted.Therefore, by your logic, the end of the age happened in the FIRST CENTURY.
Anyone who wants to think about it for a couple minutes can see what I am saying. If you are capable of abstract thought.
Context
HE that receives the word and UNDERSTANDS IT <----NOT HE SOWING THE WORD and bearing fruit..........the amount is irrelevant.....it is the fruit that is produced in the ONE'S life that HEARS and UNDERSTANDS......
AGAIN....another twisted context and skewed view on fruit.....the fruit PRODUCED in the LIFE of ONE that HEARS and UNDERSTANDS........
It is amazing how we have reduced this to something different than that what it is implying....but hey....par for the course
HE that receives the word and UNDERSTANDS IT <----NOT HE SOWING THE WORD and bearing fruit..........the amount is irrelevant.....it is the fruit that is produced in the ONE'S life that HEARS and UNDERSTANDS......
AGAIN....another twisted context and skewed view on fruit.....the fruit PRODUCED in the LIFE of ONE that HEARS and UNDERSTANDS........
It is amazing how we have reduced this to something different than that what it is implying....but hey....par for the course