Faith/Works...How much faith? How much works?

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1ofthem

1ofthem

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#441
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#441
All i'm saying is, you cant just count it up and say you need to have 100 works or whatever...because there are too many scriptures that show that it is individual and based upon what God has given each of us to do...but if we don't have any then we can be assured that we are not saved, and there are a lot of scriptures that make this perfectly clear as well...Just Saying....
 
crossnote

crossnote

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#442
1ofthem said:
All i'm saying is, you cant just count it up and say you need to have 100 works or whatever...because there are too many scriptures that show that it is individual and based upon what God has given each of us to do...but if we don't have any then we can be assured that we are not saved, and there are a lot of scriptures that make this perfectly clear as well...Just Saying....
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It's individual alright, but not based on us as individuals but upon the Individual named Jesus. Otherwise everyone will seem right in their own eyes.
 
1ofthem

1ofthem

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crossnote said:
It's individual alright, but not based on us as individuals but upon the Individual named Jesus. Otherwise everyone will seem right in their own eyes.
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Ok, I agree...so what was this all about? I really don't like posting in these types of threads much because it always feels like everyone has their own hidden agenda and want to argue their own point across....If this is not what's happening here then I apologize.
 
1ofthem

1ofthem

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Did you really want to know how much works and how much faith you need or did you just want to say something else?

1. Faith= can be as small as mustard seed to begin with.

2. How much works will you do after being saved= can't be sure God gives it based upon each person.

3. No works or fruit at all = equals never saved

4. How long will it take to bear fruit or works= that also depends on the person and God, but still in the end if we don't bear any fruits or works then our faith is dead and we are not saved.

I don't have time to look it up but there is also a parable that deals with this. A man planted a fig tree in his garden and it didn't produce fruit for years he was going to cut it down, but his servant persuaded him not to and to let him try to nurture it to get it to grow and then if it still did not produce fruit then to cut it down.
 
crossnote

crossnote

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1ofthem said:
I don't have time to look it up but there is also a parable that deals with this. A man planted a fig tree in his garden and it didn't produce fruit for years he was going to cut it down, but his servant persuaded him not to and to let him try to nurture it to get it to grow and then if it still did not produce fruit then to cut it down.
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Actually that is more picturing unbelieving Israel than believers. He did cut them down in 70 AD due to unbelief. (fig tree typifies Israel)
 
G

garee

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crossnote said:
How can one be assured of their standing before God if "it's different for each person"?
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How a person views faith as a work that work in us to both will and do the good pleasure of another is different But all of the same Spirit that does His work by faith

I would think the experiences can be different and true in themselves. The gifts of God are two fold, two working to edify one source of faith (Christ's in us) .

For instance we are given a example in Romans 1. Paul as a gift of God. Previously hating Christian and murdering them as he walked by sight . Now having been born again Paul is given a gift of doing the desire to do the will of God.

God as a gift to Paul does send Paul by a faith that exclusively comes from hearing God not seen, with thoughts of God. that worked in Paul (1) the gift of prophesying and the other the gift of interpretation hearing God as he words give us ears to make it possible.

Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,

One faith, the faith of God. One work of that mutual faith, the father and Son working together.

The same mutual faith of Christ the selfsame Spirit working dividing to every man as he wills.

For God is my witness, whom I serve with my spirit in the gospel of his Son, that without ceasing I make mention of you always in my prayers; Making request, if by any means now at length I might have a prosperous journey by the will of God to come unto you. For I long to see you, that I may impart unto you some spiritual gift, to the end ye may be established; That is, that I may be comforted together with you by the mutual faith both of you and me Romans1:9-12

Work of Christ's faith and not of each other,







.
 
G

garee

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1ofthem said:
Did you really want to know how much works and how much faith you need or did you just want to say something else?

1. Faith= can be as small as mustard seed to begin with.

2. How much works will you do after being saved= can't be sure God gives it based upon each person.

3. No works or fruit at all = equals never saved

4. How long will it take to bear fruit or works= that also depends on the person and God, but still in the end if we don't bear any fruits or works then our faith is dead and we are not saved.

I don't have time to look it up but there is also a parable that deals with this. A man planted a fig tree in his garden and it didn't produce fruit for years he was going to cut it down, but his servant persuaded him not to and to let him try to nurture it to get it to grow and then if it still did not produce fruit then to cut it down.
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If we can be sure its based on Christ 's work of faith as labor of His love. Why would we look to our own selves.? The gift is the faith of Christ previously having no faith. Not little none. we have the authority as it is written in the law and prophets it in these bodies of death but it is not of us if it is of Him to begin with.

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us
 
S

seed_time_harvest

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garee said:
The seed is spiritual as the word of God. The Son of man came in corrupted flesh in order to put away sin in respect to the wage of violating a commandment of God in the flesh . This is performed by the holiness of Spirit.There is no holiness of flesh .Flesh and blood after the rudiments of this world will not enter the new heavens and earth . What we are is not what we will be when we receive our new incorruptible bodies clothed with the righteousness of our husband Christ. A picture or vision of His chaste virgin of bride, the church clothed with His righteousness with the Sun and Moon, the temporal time keepers under her feet. She is revealed in Revelation 12.

Christians have been delivered from dying of a corrupted spirit of death to new living spirit life. Our bodies are dead because of sin .But are new spirit of our new heart that has a desire to do the will gives us eternal life. Something the law could not do, as a work of faith but rather as the letter it kills .God as promised sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh ot took away the penalty :

Romans 8:2-4 King James Version (KJV) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
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🙂You seem to understand VERY well.
 
S

seed_time_harvest

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1ofthem said:
If we're truly a child of God then he talks to us and we know what he wants from us. Now i'm not saying that I always get it immediately but I have to pray and listen to know what God wants from me. He has a work or works for all of us and it is not going to be the same for everyone. So we have to draw nigh to God, read the word, pray, walk in the Spirit, and listen to him.
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And we get rewarded If we do what GOD IS Instructing us to do.🙂
 
FlyingDove

FlyingDove

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All the necessary work was finished by Jesus the Christ

Rom 5:19 (B) so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
(NOTE: By the OBEDIENCE OF ONE = CHRIST many be made righteous)

Phil 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but "that which is through the faith of Christ", the righteousness which is of God by faith:
(NOTE: Not by our own righteousness abtained thru law keeping. BUT thru the faith "OF" Christ)

It's Christ's faithful work & our faith placed in it

Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by "faith of Jesus Christ" unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
(NOTE: The Faith "OF" Christ)

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the "faith of Christ" and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
(NOTE: It's the Faith "OF" Christ and thru the righteousness of Christ's faith. Christ becomes the Lord our righteousness (Jer 23:6 & 33:16). And God justifies us "Declares us Righteous in His sight)

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
(NOTE: We live by the faith "OF" the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me

Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
(NOTE: The promise by the faith "OF" Jesus Christ It's our Faith placed in Christ's work)

Habakkuk 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
(NOTE: The just live by """HIS""" faith!)

It's Christ's faithful work & our faith placed in it.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved,

Romans 3:
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Galatians 3:
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, & called us with an holy calling, not according to our works but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Ephesians 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Scripture clearly & repeatedly teaches that salvation is by the grace of God thru Faith & not by our good works. It's Christ's obedient faithful works 1st & our faith placed in them/HIM.

This post is My Opinion Only. FD
 
K

know1

Senior Member
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know1 said:
Jesus as Lord of your life, and that God raised him from the dead, like it is written.
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But as I said, it doesn't matter what one believes, even the demons believe those things to no avail.
Until one acts on that which they believe in their heart, nothing will happen. Faith without a corresponding work is without power and effect.
 
crossnote

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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FlyingDove said:
All the necessary work was finished by Jesus the Christ

Rom 5:19 (B) so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
(NOTE: By the OBEDIENCE OF ONE = CHRIST many be made righteous)

Phil 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but "that which is through the faith of Christ", the righteousness which is of God by faith:
(NOTE: Not by our own righteousness abtained thru law keeping. BUT thru the faith "OF" Christ)

It's Christ's faithful work & our faith placed in it

Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by "faith of Jesus Christ" unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
(NOTE: The Faith "OF" Christ)

Gal 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the "faith of Christ" and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
(NOTE: It's the Faith "OF" Christ and thru the righteousness of Christ's faith. Christ becomes the Lord our righteousness (Jer 23:6 & 33:16). And God justifies us "Declares us Righteous in His sight)

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
(NOTE: We live by the faith "OF" the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me

Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
(NOTE: The promise by the faith "OF" Jesus Christ It's our Faith placed in Christ's work)

Habakkuk 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
(NOTE: The just live by """HIS""" faith!)

It's Christ's faithful work & our faith placed in it.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Acts 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved,

Romans 3:
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.

Galatians 3:
6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

2 Timothy 1:9 Who hath saved us, & called us with an holy calling, not according to our works but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Titus 3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Ephesians 2:
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Scripture clearly & repeatedly teaches that salvation is by the grace of God thru Faith & not by our good works. It's Christ's obedient faithful works 1st & our faith placed in them/HIM.

This post is My Opinion Only. FD
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Exactly my point as too much emphasis is placed on what we do, including 'our faith', but when questioned no one seems to know 'how much faith'. When the focus is placed back on Jesus, (instead of 'our' faith), what HE has done, what HE is doing and what HE promises to do, then it isn't a matter of 'how much' faith but Who is one's faith in.
 
M

Macabeus

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seed_time_harvest said:
Would you agree that the WORD of GOD should harmonize with other scriptures In the same book chapter?
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1 John 3:6
King James Version

6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

A few verses down John Inspired by GOD writes

1 John 3:9
King James Version

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

How would you harmonize these two verses since they DO sound contrary to each other and we know that GOD doesn’t author confusion.

+++
The reason I ask this Is because we know that born again christians DO sin.
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They do not contradict at all. I see no contradiction.

The verb "sin" and the infinitive "to sin" are in the present tense, which sometimes indicates continual, repetitive, or iterative sinning. Some translations translate the verb and infinitive "practice sinning", and I think that is valid.

We sin, but a child of God does not wallow in sin.

As far as lying, no person can be a frequent liar unrepentantly and think he or she is right with God. So when I am called a liar, I take it as saying I am no Christian.
 
Budman

Budman

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Macabeus said:
As far as lying, no person can be a frequent liar unrepentantly and think he or she is right with God.
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And yet you sin in other ways every single day, Mac. And don't harp about "personal attacks" when you have no problem personally attacking - like when you called us "sharks."

When will you realize God doesn't stay with us because of our perfection, He stays with us because of His perfection - the imputed righteousness of Christ. When He said He would never leave us nor forsake us, He meant that. When Jesus said no created thing (including us - as we are created) can snatch us out of His hand, or the Father's hand, He meant that as well.

Even if we stop believing, we remain saved. "If we believe not, He remains faithful, for He cannot deny Himself." (2 Timothy 2:13)

God will chastise a wayward child, even to the point of taking them home (1 Corinthians 5: 1-5), but He will never cast us away or ever lose us.

Christians couldn't go to hell if they tried.
 
O

oldethennew

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MATT. 5:19.
Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least Commandments, and shall teach men so,
he shall be called the least in The Kingdom of Heaven:
but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in The Kingdom of Heaven.

1COR. 15:58.
Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord,
forasmuch as (you know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord.)

TITUS 2:14.
Who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto Himself
a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

2COR. 15:7.
Be you strong therefore, and let not your hands be weak: for your work shall be rewarded.

MATT. 5:16.
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

our lives, after 'conversion', are ALL ABOUT glorifying our Heavenly Father, this is our 'CALLING',
'For we are indeed saved by Grace, and appointed unto Good Works'.

it's up to us to keep the Appointment...
:):)
 
oyster67

oyster67

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#457
How many apples must an apple tree bear before it is an apple tree?
 
oyster67

oyster67

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#458
Budman said:
Christians couldn't go to hell if they tried.
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Are you willing to stake your eternity on this? If so, then you are a very bold man (yes, I understand that many count boldness as a very high and great virtue.)
 
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