Been watching a lot about the quran.. Misled?

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TheLearner

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obedienttogod said:
ha, this cracks me up even more ^

Not one actual Greek but those who think they understand Greek.

All they did was try to refute what has been established. And they still are using English for a Greek originated name. That's not even a clever attempt by any means...
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I too love a good joke. Is this what you are trying to say?

"The name Jesus is derived from the Latin Iesus, a transliteration of the Greek Ἰησοῦς (Iesous). The Greek form is a rendering of the Hebrew ישוע‎ (Yeshua), a variant of the earlier name יהושע‎ (Yehoshua), or in English, "Joshua", meaning "Yah saves". "
 
tourist

tourist

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Sophrosyne said:
hello, I've been stumbling about some videos online about the quran, and i'd like to share them with you, instead of just writing..
Video starts at 1:14

Please pray for me, as in i'm being brain washed? and im confused.

here's another one

what i am doubting is, IS Jesus God? or a prophet? I know what he said, I am before Abraham was.
But he also prayed to THE God/father, saying why have you left me? I'm wondering.. Why would he pray to himself?
Theres a lot of things im recently confused about, for an example when he curses the fig-tree, if he was GOD in physical form, surely he would have known that it wasnt the season to produce figs? please dont call me names like "Lost cause" or "brainwashed" as in i just need guidance and needs theological answers...
I've got a lot of questions, and i would appreciate if people saw the 2 videos i've shared, before commenting, cause then they can understand why im so confused. Please reply..
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My counsel is to stop wasting your time watching confusing videos.
 
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obedienttogod

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#105
TheLearner said:
They are experts on Islam. Some were MIssonaries to Muslims, who studied their languages, histories and cultures firsthand. Others are well established scholars of various races.

Your avoidance of those sources tells me a lot. Abraham Geiger is a Jewish Scholar, not an old white man.
In fact, his works have been noted by many scholars.

James Arlandson https://www.americanthinker.com/author/james_arlandson_and_soliman_albuthe/

James M. Arlandson teaches World Religions, Humanities, Introduction to Philosophy, and Introduction to Ethics at various colleges. He has written many articles and one book, Women, Class, and Society in Early Christianity (Hendrickson, 1997). His Ph.D. is in Comparative Literature (ancient Greek literature, religious studies, and critical theory).

https://myislam.dk/articles/en/arlandson a00-islamic-sharia-law.php

Samuel M. Zwemer https://nortonsafe.search.ask.com/w...4-10&ver=22.17.0.183&prt=Default&trackId=nsss

Charles Cutler Torrey

TORREY, CHARLES CUTLER° (1863–1956), U.S. Bible scholar and Semitist. Born in East Hardwick, Vermont, Torrey taught Latin at Bowdoin College (1885–86), and Semitics, Bible, and Hebraica at Andover Theological Seminary (1892–1900) and at Yale University (1900–34). He was one of the founders of the American School of Archaeology in Jerusalem. Subsequent archaeological finds and advances in Semitic linguistics and in lower and higher biblical criticism have been damaging to many of Torrey's contributions in the estimation of present-day scholarship. https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/torrey-charles-cutler-x00b0

Charles Cutler Torrey (20 December 1863 – 12 November 1956)[1] was an American historian, archeologist and scholar who presented manuscripturial evidence to support alternate views on Christian and Islamic religious sources and origins. He founded the American School of Archaeology at Jerusalem in 1901.

Torrey taught Semitic languages at the Andover Theological Seminary (1892–1900) and Yale University (1900–32).

Some of Charles Cutler Torrey's studies are included in The Origins of The Koran: Classic Essays on Islam’s Holy Book edited by Ibn Warraq.

https://nortonsafe.search.ask.com/web?chn=PIF001&cmpgn=&doi=2019-04-10&geo=&guid=084631e7-8e44-4d5e-935a-795ea1c3bef7&o=APN11908&p2=^EQ^cd0aus^defzzz&prt=Default&trackId=nsss&ver=22.17.0.183&tpr=2&enc=2&q=f4y0cUCsx88BagAmJxkShSugVU_CFWR1bAK27oyL8vbvADmLgF-nMXTSgkJqlSWXc2kPgWgLo6o2zfy1D8T4y86FEQLW2juJIf9DV1muTh4ZufP5PSkXrOJP3d5b7LeWS4rbIobjxLlZ_19S1Y9ht0sCYTU2lnjYDWJ1et5XJQ0DYSvdljAjeaUw_NOCnaTlCP2H0Qrn5Y4LvFw1XQkjNjXDh1rarzgWxJSLdYZxbIFASvCe8mlRHFPkSu36k-xJQTq1h4mwoPbVHGp2ZNDc4tEu7m_lZ2KgATy34lttNfH0d04T8oLs2z4EdzdVQjOgyynqwTRNot3AeQWPtJf9Xw&ts=1555966172544

William Montgomery Watt, Professor Emeritus of Arabic and Islamic Studies at the University of Edinburgh, is well known as an authority on the life of Muhammad and the origins of Islam. His many books include the Faith and Practice of Al-Ghazali and Religious Truth for our Time

These people are very qualified to speak on the subjects related to Islam and the Koran.
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Is a biblical scholar, who breaks the bible down to black letters on a white page, more qualified than a preacher who is full of the Holy Spirit and receives scripture from the viewpoint of God?

Absolutely NOT!!

If you ever get to where I am located, I would love to take you to a Mosque that has over 200,000 members. This Mosque is the location to which several Muslim decisions are made for both the Muslim faith in America and around the world. Several Imam's I consider to be the kind of friend I would give my life to save any one of them. IMAM's are Muslim leaders, authority figures, decision makers for all of Islam beliefs, and so forth. I've been to their homes as well they have been to mine. We break scripture down from the Quran and I use the Torah. They have shared traditions that most people would never know. The list is endless to the knowledge of these Muslim Leaders (my friends).

This is where I get, before there was an official religion specifying the Muslim beliefs, there was the Abraham and Adam traditions long before Mohammed ever was born. And some of these Imam's discredit Mohammed and remove his views from the Quran.

So, you can post what you think is right all day until you turn blue in the face, I have actual Muslim people, who like the Jews, can trace their ancestry back to back to Abraham (through Keturah's sons she bore to him). And what Abraham taught, was passed onto every generation after!!
 
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obedienttogod

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#106
#106
TheLearner said:
I too love a good joke. Is this what you are trying to say?

"The name Jesus is derived from the Latin Iesus, a transliteration of the Greek Ἰησοῦς (Iesous). The Greek form is a rendering of the Hebrew ישוע‎ (Yeshua), a variant of the earlier name יהושע‎ (Yehoshua), or in English, "Joshua", meaning "Yah saves". "
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Yeshua = הגאולה של יהווה = The salvation of Yahweh

I was not arguing the translated names, I was pointing out that Greek was the original language and broke it down to Apologetics › Etymology.

But the point was that it originated from the Greek before being translated into other languages.
 
T

TheLearner

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obedienttogod said:
Is a biblical scholar, who breaks the bible down to black letters on a white page, more qualified than a preacher who is full of the Holy Spirit and receives scripture from the viewpoint of God?

Absolutely NOT!!

If you ever get to where I am located, I would love to take you to a Mosque that has over 200,000 members. This Mosque is the location to which several Muslim decisions are made for both the Muslim faith in America and around the world. Several Imam's I consider to be the kind of friend I would give my life to save any one of them. IMAM's are Muslim leaders, authority figures, decision makers for all of Islam beliefs, and so forth. I've been to their homes as well they have been to mine. We break scripture down from the Quran and I use the Torah. They have shared traditions that most people would never know. The list is endless to the knowledge of these Muslim Leaders (my friends).

This is where I get, before there was an official religion specifying the Muslim beliefs, there was the Abraham and Adam traditions long before Mohammed ever was born. And some of these Imam's discredit Mohammed and remove his views from the Quran.

So, you can post what you think is right all day until you turn blue in the face, I have actual Muslim people, who like the Jews, can trace their ancestry back to back to Abraham (through Keturah's sons she bore to him). And what Abraham taught, was passed onto every generation after!!
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Your Muslims are going on hearsay.

Those Scholars have both the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and are experts, very well educated.

As for people claiming that the Holy Spirit gives them correct interpretation of the Bible.
Why do they have contradicting interpretations of the Bible? They all claim the HS gives them the answer.

There are two possibilities,
None are right(most likely based on the contradictions).
Some are partly right.
 
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obedienttogod

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#109
TheLearner said:
Your Muslims are going on hearsay.

Those Scholars have both the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and are experts, very well educated.

As for people claiming that the Holy Spirit gives them correct interpretation of the Bible.
Why do they have contradicting interpretations of the Bible? They all claim the HS gives them the answer.

There are two possibilities,
None are right(most likely based on the contradictions).
Some are partly right.
Click to expand...


So, Abraham, who had Yeshua as Melchizedek for his personal High Priest, met God face to face on several occasions, was the Grandson of Ham and great Grandson of Noah (taught about Creation and Adam), had 6 sons by 3 different women according to the KJV Bible, would not have passed this knowledge down to his sons, even with Isaac being the Promise?

Abraham was born in what is known today as Iraq/Iran, and the cave he buried Sarah in and was himself buried in, is in Muslim Territory. This does not include the fact that Abraham's sons from Keturah are names of mountain ranges throughout Muslim Territory.

So, why would the Muslims HONOR ABRAHAM and HIS SONS thousands of years before Mohammed, if NO ONE KNEW who Abraham was, and the God he taught them?
 
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TheLearner

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"there was the Abraham and Adam traditions long before Mohammed ever was born "

document from primary sources verified by non muslim scholars with links, please.
 
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TheLearner

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I have many Muslim friends too. None of which believes
Arabia tribes can be traced back to Abraham.
And, they came from that area of the world.
 
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obedienttogod

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#112
Midian - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midian
According to the Book of Genesis, the Midianites were the descendants of Midian, who was a son of Abraham and his wife Keturah: "Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah. And she bare him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah" (Genesis 25:1–2, King James Version).


Midianite - New World Encyclopedia
www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Midianite
Mar 8, 2019 - The land of Midian was also where Moses spent his 40 years in .

THIS SPEAKS DIRECTLY OF MOSES FATHER N LAW... A BELIEVER IN ABRAHAM'S GOD AND A MIDIANITE
This is the place where Moses spoke to I AM in the Burning Bush

How can Moses Father n Law be a BELIEVER in Abraham's God, as a MIDIANITE, unless ABRAHAM told his son Midian about Yahweh!!


You can actually do what I just did with ALL OF ABRAHAM'S sons and descendants.

And your scholars are smarter than this?

Obviously NOT!!

Clearly Abraham passed his knowledge to his children and they passed it on and continued.


When Moses was living Exodus and then met his Father n Law, descendent of Abraham's son Midian, this was almost 2500 years before Mohammed WAS EVER BORN!!
 
T

TheLearner

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obedienttogod said:
Midian - Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Midian
According to the Book of Genesis, the Midianites were the descendants of Midian, who was a son of Abraham and his wife Keturah: "Abraham took a wife, and her name was Keturah. And she bare him Zimran, and Jokshan, and Medan, and Midian, and Ishbak, and Shuah" (Genesis 25:1–2, King James Version).


Midianite - New World Encyclopedia
www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Midianite
Mar 8, 2019 - The land of Midian was also where Moses spent his 40 years in .

THIS SPEAKS DIRECTLY OF MOSES FATHER N LAW... A BELIEVER IN ABRAHAM'S GOD AND A MIDIANITE
This is the place where Moses spoke to I AM in the Burning Bush

How can Moses Father n Law be a BELIEVER in Abraham's God, as a MIDIANITE, unless ABRAHAM told his son Midian about Yahweh!!


You can actually do what I just did with ALL OF ABRAHAM'S sons and descendants.

And your scholars are smarter than this?

Obviously NOT!!

Clearly Abraham passed his knowledge to his children and they passed it on and continued.


When Moses was living Exodus and then met his Father n Law, descendent of Abraham's son Midian, this was almost 2500 years before Mohammed WAS EVER BORN!!
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I am asking for primary sources with links that predate Mohammad with links to the primary sources, not wickedpedia which anyone can post to. Thanks Also, the Encyclopedias now days politically correct, usually third or fourth level at best. It was basically a complete genealogy that you were claiming for the Arab peoples.

This is another secodary source that carries as much weight as your sources.

"
The truth is that the term "Arab" designates peoples of diverse ethnic origins who are united only by the Arabic language and culture. The seed of Ishmael represents only a very small component of the genetic pool of the Arabic people. Let me explain.

In Arabic and Hebrew the term arab means "nomad" (synonymous with bedouin), and originally referred only to the nomadic people who roamed the Arabian Peninsula. Later, it was used to designate all the inhabitants of the peninsula--both nomads and town-dwellers. According to the Old Testament, the earliest inhabitants of the peninsula descended from Joktan (Gen. 10:26-29), a descendent of Shem (whence the term Semite). Later, the area was also settled by Abraham's sons through Keturah (Gen. 25:1-4), the 12 sons of Ishmael (Gen. 25:13-16), and finally the sons of Esau (Gen. 36:1-19), all descendents of Abraham (also Semitic). Clearly, Ishmael's offspring represent just a small fraction of the Arab peoples.

But there is another reason it is incorrect to say that the Arab nation descended from Ishmael. Following the Arab conquest of the Middle East and North Africa (7th C.), many of the conquered countries eventually adopted Arabic as their mother tongue, as well as Islam. There was also a certain amount of intermarriage between conquerors and conquered. So that today, the term "Arab" has a strictly cultural and linguistic connotation. To conclude, while some Arabs of the Arabian Peninsula may be descendants of Ishmael, most Arabs of the rest of the "Arab World" have no blood relationship to Ishmael at all.

But what about the claim that Muhammad is a descendent of Ishmael. The Arabs, of course, make this claim, but I note that some trace his ancestry through Nebaioth, and others through Kedar, showing that they really do not know for sure. When one considers the well-documented fact that Muslims often invent genealogies, I am skeptical."
https://www.awm.com/
 
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TheLearner

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Without Genealogies that pre-dated Muhammad in their primary literature that also pre-dates him ---- none of your claims can be proven in reference to origins. The Christian Literature on our side that tries to see the Arabs as coming from Abraham are prophecy hounds, not scholars. And, they tend to make things up to explain Jewish conflicts with others.
They are so bent in their opinions, facts do not matter to them.

I have Muslim friends who says there is no linage of Muhammad to Abraham, you have some who say there is.
Neither of which to my knowledge can be proven from facts of lineage or genealogy.
 
K

kaylagrl

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#116
newton3003 said:
The confusion to me is what is in the Quran and how some people view it.

The Quran regards Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Moses and Jesus as being among the ranks of the righteous. The Quran mentions Jesus more than it mentions the prophet Mohammed. Yet many so-called Musims have waged a holy war against Christians, and still are, and many countries with Muslim majorities persecute Christians.

That is MY confusion.
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Muhammed blended Christianity, Judaism and Islam to try and convert people to his beliefs. He had a handful of converts until he began forcing people to convert. This is why Islam is at war with Christianity and Judaism today. Jesus was a prophet to them,not the Son of God. Muhammed is the one that saw the vision and he is the one elevated in the Quran.
 
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kaylagrl

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#117
newton3003 said:
If that's the case, then every Muslim is a potential killer that should be contained.

But, I have Muslim friends and none of them even speak vaguely about non-believers, and I'm not a Muslim.

The Bible can also be construed as a primer for killing non-believers, as Moses and Joshua did in the Old Testament.
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If a Muslim follows the Quran strictly, then yes, they are very violent because that is how they will bring back their messiah, through conquering the world and "converting" by force everyone to Islam. The Quran speaks of non-believes as infidels and that includes Muslims that do not follow the Quran as strictly as they should. That is why the Muslim world is constantly at war with each other.
 
Melach

Melach

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@kaylagrl you are correct and i agree with you dear friend.

this is the difference, if a christian does something evil we can stand up and say no Jesus did not teach it. but on the other side, if they dont engage in evil behavior you can point to their scriptures and say "he is not obedient to his book".
the good ones on their side are the disobedient ones lolz

its also the only religion that is openly trying to take over the world and has its eschatology system where they take over everything. nobody else is doing it, you dont see hindus or buddhists going crazy like that.
 
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