Not By Works

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M

Macabeus

Banned
#98,481
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#98,481
Macabeus said:
When you answer, you sound like someone you doesn't spend a lot of time in the word.

Offering- Phil. 4:16- For even in Thessalonica ye sent once and again unto my necessity. 4:17- Not because I desire a gift: but I desire fruit that may abound to your account.

Praise- Hebrews 13:15- By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.

Samaritan woman- And many of the Samaritans of that city believed on him for the saying of the woman, which testified, He told me all that ever I did.
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Fruit that may abound to your account. (present active participle), not subjunctive. literally "fruit abounding to your account"
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#98,482
#98,482
dcontroversal said:
AND really, if one wants to be fully HONEST.....NO ONE produces fruit......we are but the branches that BEARS the fruit that is PRODUCED by the ROOT <----JESUS is the one bearing fruit through us as a living sacrifice............
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Exactly, that is the reason Jesus uses this analogy, it is the vine that does the work the branch abides
 
lightbearer

lightbearer

Senior Member
#98,483
Jun 17, 2017
2,375
504
113
58
HBG. Pa. USA
#98,483
Macabeus said:
Does all belief save?

Were the people in John 6:66 saved?
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Peter was not instantly saved; converted.

But he turned, and said to the Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Matt 16:23

In these next verses the LORD tells Peter he is not converted and that HE prays that Peter's faith fails him not.

And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me. Luke 22:31-34

GOD has granted all through HIS Grace the same opportunity; the measure of Faith.
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

So it is up to us through GOD's strength.

Peter apparently made it; will we?
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#98,484
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#98,484
UnderGrace said:
Exactly, that is the reason Jesus uses this analogy, it is the vine that does the work the branch abides
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:ROFL: John 15: 5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#98,485
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#98,485
gb9 said:
follwingpeterjensteps does not even recognize the actual definition of sin. he is one who needs teaching, he needs not to be taken seriously .
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It does me no good to address these guys.......they get banned, come back, break the rules, go to seed, cause division and EG is right.....this thread has a good purpose, to stand against false dogmas that do not save.....and I will no longer engage the foolishness that causes division....I will engage with bible......rank and file the lost are pouring into hell and division is being cause over the simple truth that we are compared to vines, trees, and wheat when it comes to bearing fruit...ALL take growth and maturity.... I will no longer engage the foolishness of HOW LONG it takes..........
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#98,487
#98,487
dcontroversal said:
HAHAHAHAHHA I have 7 cats and they are all looking at me through the window wanting to be fed.....and three are about to pop and drop a few more ;) HAHAHHAHAHAH
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Sometimes a cat's expression states a lot more than my words would have been able to....... with regards to that particular comment!!
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#98,489
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#98,489
dcontroversal said:
AND really, if one wants to be fully HONEST.....NO ONE produces fruit......we are but the branches that BEARS the fruit that is PRODUCED by the ROOT <----JESUS is the one bearing fruit through us as a living sacrifice............
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SO then good works are a gift from God, for without Him we can do nothing, right? (John 15:5)
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#98,490
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#98,490
lightbearer said:
Peter was not instantly saved; converted.

But he turned, and said to the Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Matt 16:23

In these next verses the LORD tells Peter he is not converted and that HE prays that Peter's faith fails him not.

And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me. Luke 22:31-34

GOD has granted all through HIS Grace the same opportunity; the measure of Faith.
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

So it is up to us through GOD's strength.

Peter apparently made it; will we?
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Peter was saved, but fallible. That is why he came back to Jesus. Because his conversion was genuine.

I suppose people think Judas Iscariot was saved too. (not saying you, certain others)
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#98,491
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#98,491
UnderGrace said:
Sometimes a cat's expression states a lot more than my words would have been able to....... with regards to that particular comment!!
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HAHHAHHAHHA I did not even know until I just opened up the ignored section..........yeah no doubt........I agree....
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#98,494
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#98,494
lightbearer said:
Peter was not instantly saved; converted.

But he turned, and said to the Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men. Matt 16:23

In these next verses the LORD tells Peter he is not converted and that HE prays that Peter's faith fails him not.

And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.And he said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.And he said, I tell thee, Peter, the cock shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me. Luke 22:31-34

GOD has granted all through HIS Grace the same opportunity; the measure of Faith.
For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think; but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith.

So it is up to us through GOD's strength.

Peter apparently made it; will we?
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Yeah.....I do not believe that...HE was saved, immersed and called out by JESUS and they were identified as the church twice in the present tense......I do agree it took a little over 3 plus years for him to be fully MATURED and converted

The same is true with MANY........they trust the word, are saved and then it MAY take a period of time before they are fully transformed and converted in their walk and talk for the LORD........it all depends on the level of teaching they get, how they incorporate the truth etc......
 
BillG

BillG

Senior Member
#98,498
Feb 15, 2017
9,023
4,444
113
#98,498
Macabeus said:
No one said "fruit bears instantly". That is a strawman. I never said that. I merely said it does not take a period of growth and maturity to bear fruit. Because one can bear fruit in many ways that do not require any level of maturity.

A person that just got saved two minutes ago can tell his friend about what Jesus did for Him, and if the Holy Spirit chooses, he can use that to draw a sinner to Christ.

A person who gets saved today can put an offering into the missionary offerering tommorow, and God can use that gift to save souls, and that is fruit on his or her account.

A person that gets saved five minutes from now can praise and glorify God, which is the fruit of their mouth.

The Samaritan woman didn't need a period of growth and maturity to bring a whole village to Jesus.

Andrew did not need a period of growth and maturity to bring Peter to Jesus.

Phillip did not need a period of growth and maturity to bring Nathaniel to Jesus

etcetera
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The examples you have above, do you consider them as bearing fruit?

I have always considered bearing fruit to be the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

The above follows

Galatians 5:16-21

Walking in the Spirit
16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

So to me Paul is bringing a contrast of the works of the flesh, which as belivers walking in the Spirit will manifest fruit, and as it increases the works of the flesh decrease.

So that has always been focus concerning by bearing fruit.

I'm not negating telling people about Jesus in any way shape or form.
But for me if we walk the walk with Holy Spirit then people will see this.

There is nothing worse than telling people about Jesus and yet walk according to the flesh with no regards to actually bearing fruit.

Now to me that is greasy grace.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#98,500
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#98,500
BillG said:
The examples you have above, do you consider them as bearing fruit?

I have always considered bearing fruit to be the fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Galatians 5:22-23
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.

The above follows

Galatians 5:16-21

Walking in the Spirit
16 I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. 18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.
19 Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

So to me Paul is bringing a contrast of the works of the flesh, which as belivers walking in the Spirit will manifest fruit, and as it increases the works of the flesh decrease.

So that has always been focus concerning by bearing fruit.

I'm not negating telling people about Jesus in any way shape or form.
But for me if we walk the walk with Holy Spirit then people will see this.

There is nothing worse than telling people about Jesus and yet walk according to the flesh with no regards to actually bearing fruit.

Now to me that is greasy grace.
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EXACTLY>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
 
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