Free Grace or Faith and Works?

Mat 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments. Mat 19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

Does this make Jesus a legalist?

Heb 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
Joh 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. (not think or believe but DO)

We can't overcome in our own power, but if you listen to the devil who is telling us that we shouldn't even try and that it's impossible to overcome you will surely fail.
With Jesus in us ......
“With God all things are possible” Matt 19:26
“I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me” Phil 4:13
“Thanks be to God who always leads us in triumph in Christ” 2 Cor 2:14
“He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing” John 15:5

By faith in Jesus good works are done. Faith and works go hand in hand.

You HAVE to seperate them, Because they are different thing

We are SAVED because we are JUSTIFIED

Sanctification as we stand has no bearing on our salvation. Because as we stand, we all would be condemned on the spot.

When you mix them, You become like the jews who through pride thought they had to add their WORKS to their FAITH and as such, as paul said, became FOOLS

James in his letter was telling people to test their OWN FAITH. If they are HEARERS of the word but NOT DOERS, If they CLAIM to have faith, But have NO WORKS. Can that faith save them?

No. Why? ITS DEAD.

What does that mean? ITS NOT REAL FAITH. It is Superficial or false faith. Or as James called it. Mere belief (even demons believe)

When it comes to our christian life your right, we can not seperate them

When it comes to our eternal state, we MUST separate them

I agree.

Once people devalue Christs teaching on the way His people should live and be,
then transformation into the people of God is impossible and the gospel lost.

It is clear to me, being born again is about laying down a different way of being and
interacting with others, based on Jesus and not the world. And it takes effort, dedication,
application, commitment, perseverance.

I would suggest Jesus is a behaviouralist. We behave as we have learnt from past interactions.
Faith in the cross is the foundation, and it means we will strike forward against our inner turmoil
and feelings to build a new way within us guided by His word and the Holy Spirit.

Carrying ones cross is about ignoring the pain and hurt from others and taking the next step
forward. This runs contrary to free gracers, who believe Jesus has saved them despite their
continuing sin, and their sin does not deny the gospel or the value of their faith.
Worse still they arrogantly condemn righteous walkers as hypocrites because they stay
at the gate mocking those who stride forward following the Kingdom.

How the accuser rejoices at their success declaring Christs cross is incapable of conquering
sin and saving Gods people.

You cut that verse, making it appear to say something it is not

Here lets finish what Jesus said

20 The young man said to Him, “All these things I have kept [g]from my youth. What do I still lack?”

21 Jesus said to him, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell what you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me.”


Notice what Jesus did?

The guy CLAIMED he obeyed all the commands since birth.

Jesus called him out. Trying to expose how wrong he was. And said if he WANTED TO BE PERFECT, God sell and give to the poor

The fact he could not PROVED he had not obeyed the commands since birth, and SHOULD have pointed him to Christ, but it did not, and in pride, he walked away.

The point of salvation, the cross, Jesus and His teaching is to show us the way we should walk.
He provides the power, the teaching and the change in our hearts.

He declares simply those who love Him, who know Him, obey Him by walking His way.

He is a behaviourist. By walking and fighting through, using the cross as the foundation, we
become His people. But it takes time and effort, and layering in our hearts.

Once you start talking about adding works to salvation etc. you have lost or never had what Christ
means or the Kingdom of heaven is.

Our Father in heaven, hallowed by your name,
Your Kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.

To pray this and walk in rebellion against His will is hypocrisy and a denial of who He is.
There is no compromise over these issues. Only a sinful heart, defeated and lost denies
these realities.

God bless you, and may the Lord bring light into your darkness, to bring healing and
forgiveness where there is none, amen.

The reason the rich young man walked away, because though he had kept the law, it was just
for himself and not anyone else. If he truly wanted life in God, he needed to give up his security
in wealth and walk in the love of God, which literally was standing in front of him.

He walked away because it was all self centred achieving of salvation without love for others.
All free grace believers want salvation at no cost, and no change, and so are truly lost.

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Yes they are different but if you have the wrong understanding of sanctification it becomes confusing.
In different branches of christianity Sanctification means different things.
Some focus more on works and other more on grace.

When we are in Christ we are justified (rom 8:1). He covers us. When Jesus is in us we are being sanctified (Rom 8:4).

When we are in Jesus and the Spirit is in us we have no condemnation.
When we are filled with the Spirit we can't help but do good works as a result. When we reject Jesus and the Spirit and walk in the flesh, doing our own will, can you honestly say that Jesus is in you? No. You are not walking in the Spirit and therefore not being Sanctified by Jesus. If you choose to let Jesus in He will by faith work His wonderful transforming power in you (sanctification).

Gal 5:16 This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
Gal 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.

Lol

There is no conbdemnation to those who are IN CHRIST

How are we in CHrist?

BY FAITH

What are the characteristics of those who are saved? They Obey (not perfectly)

This does not say one can LOSE salvation or that salvation must be maintained.

YOU can not MAINTAIN YOUR salvation.

Jesus showed the rich young ruler how short he falls of keeping even the first commandment (Exodus 20:3) which is the first of the two great commandments (Deuteronomy 6:5; Matthew 22:37). The rich young ruler confidently and (self righteously) declared that he has kept the commandments from his youth up and qualified for heaven under those terms. Yet Jesus knew the man's wealth had become his idolatrous god, which kept him from believing in Jesus unto salvation.

The rich young ruler missed the point that Jesus was making, failed to place his faith in Jesus for salvation, and continued instead to trust in his riches (vs. 21-23). He went away sad because he could not part from his great wealth, not even in exchange for eternal life. If keeping the commandments is the basis or means by which we receive eternal life, then why isn't this remark the pattern for all discussions concerning eternal life? Paul would have said to the jailer who asked, "what must I do to be saved?" by replying in Acts 16:31 - "keep the commandments and you will be saved," yet instead, Paul said - "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.."

Jesus knows the hearts of all men and responds to each individual a little differently because He knows where their need is. He didn't respond to the woman at the well, or to Nicodemus or to the rich young ruler the same way, yet the consistent pattern in scripture is salvation by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9).

Jesus is not a legalist, yet I've heard legalists use Matthew 19:17 on numerous occasions to teach salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works."

So in Hebrews 5:9, who obeys Him? The saved or the lost? I've heard many works-salvationists use this verse to try and support salvation by works. *Only believers have obeyed Him by choosing to believe the gospel (Romans 1:16) in order to become saved, and only believers obey Him after they have been saved through faith by practicing righteousness and not sin and loving his brother (1 John 3:9-10). *In either sense, only believers obey Him.

Unbelievers have not obeyed Him by refusing to believe the gospel (Romans 10:16) and without faith its impossible to please God (Hebrews 11:6), so unbelievers do not obey Him no matter how much "so called" obedience that they attempt to conjure up through the flesh in a vain effort to receive salvation by works. (Matthew 7:22-23) *So in either sense, unbelievers do not obey Him.

Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our report?” We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. (Romans 1:16)

John 15:3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing.

1 John 5:4 - For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our faith.

Amen! Yet none of the verses that you cited above support salvation by works.

Faith in Christ is the root of salvation and good works are the fruit. (All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful) No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root.

1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus .....
4 who do not live according to the sinful nature but according to the Spirit.
Rom 8:1..4

If one lives by the Spirit you are walking the Law of the Spirit.
There are many who claim to know Jesus yet walk knowingly in sin, denying the
very reality they claim to hold dear, though obviously not.

The way of Christ leads us to its fulfilment, being like Jesus.
Abandon the way, you abandon Jesus.

That's a bit of a harsh statement. I believe in free Grace in Christ's work alone. I don't judge myself because there is no condemnation for those in Christ, but that doesn't mean I don't love the Lord and His law. God ordained good works that we should walk in them, not that we should remain in our sin

Like Demas yet he was still saved eternally.

I think we all believe much the same thing.

Faith, if it is true, leads to good fruits (works). The works are not done to be saved but because Jesus is working in you.

Jas 3:11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
Jas 3:12 Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? either a vine, figs? so can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

Joh_15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Joh_15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
To say that we are abiding in Christ (justified) and not bringing forth christlike fruit is a contradiction.

1Jn 2:29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

By 100% Faith alone is my gift of salvation.
But because i believe that Jesus can work in me when I'm in Him i have hope of bearing His fruits. All glory to Him because it is Him working in me. But some have no hope and are content to do nothing because they think that grace is cheap enough and they can sin that grace may abound. Roms 6:1,2.

judgement is for God who knows all things.
All we need to do is make sure we are in Christ and Christ is in us. The rest will come naturally if this is so.

I couldn't agree with you more brother, although I do believe when we are born physically the first time, our spirit is dead, and totally cut off from God. I also believe in and of ourselves in the flesh could NEVER "figure out" what was wrong. We would, will, and do try to compensate for this incompleteness by fleshly means because we have no way at all of ever even knowing about our true condition. This is why direct revelation is NECESSARY. This is why it's "News" at all. Through the Jewish people God told them exactly who, what, when, how, and why He was going to bring about salvation and the only way to "fix" the broken problem in each of us.

Then the Creator of all, our very God condescends Himself and steps into His creation to make a way for us to be reconciled to our Father, to Him, and to be the light that exposes our depravity and chases the darkness away. Praise our amazing King!!! Then when He grants us repentance and opens our eyes and hearts we are grafted directly into the source of life and we were created to be, AND now able to produce fruit. I have to testify how powerful our God is to save and CHANGE people to, by nature and so willingly, go and make disciples of all nations. Also He uses each of us differently, for different things, in different time frames.

I personally have to proclaim how the Lord complete changed me by His grace and power, and that's also what I see around me as well. People proclaiming truth and people getting saved, and ALL by His power and for His magnificent glory.

And I to believe the bible tells us that of all the Father gives Him, He will lose none, so I too believe and trust that ?I cannot lose my salvation, I believe His power, but also can only testify truly of whats in me and don't know about hypothetical situations, or "what if's", only what Gods done to and in my heart/life/family/friends/community, because it is ALL effected by His power through this clown. He is great and uses our weaknesses, our defeats, to showcase His Strength and Total Victory.

There is no name higher than the name Jesus, and I will praise His name the exact same in the sun shine or rain, may His kingdom forever reign, and Your glory always be proclaimed.
Oh, Holy Father, I'm bursting at the seams, You've filled me up so full that it's pouring out in stream, I will shout His praise all my days, oh our Savior who redeems, Jesus our Christ is the very truth of life, He is our mighty King.
And though I know it's not much, and it's all I bring, Lord it's already Yours, but I give you everything.

Ephesians 2:8
King James Version

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
+++
GOD saves us by Grace through faith and I think this IS saying that this scripture saying that It Is GODs faith.Faith pleases GOD and this scripture DOES say this Is not from ourselves but It Is a gift,a gift from GOD.

The bible says faith comes by hearing so then If the faith comes and It's not of ourselves then It would have to be from GOD.

Now JESUS DID say,YOUR faith has healed you and this Is my opinion on this, HE was talking about faith so to speak of a man or to believe without seeing with the eyes but the kind of faith that man needs to go on through to salvation Is GODs workmanship.

I will keep saying that I am saved by grace through faith; you may say you are saved by faith alone!

It stated as "faith alone" to but it more accurate to state "faith apart from works"...if that helps.

We are delivered (saved) both by God's sovereign grace eternally and we are delivered (saved) many times as we live our lives here on earth by our good works by obeying God's commandments and repenting when we sometimes yield our bodies to our desires of the things of the world. Each time we repent and God forgives us we have just received a deliverance from those sins and stand in good fellowship again with God.

Read J0hn 6 again. Jesus only died for those that his Father gave him, not all mankind.