what happens next millenium or new earth?

following is a message i sent to a brother or sister on this forum in another topic but i want create new topic not to create confusion. :

dear friend i do not wish to twist or skew any bible verse. i am only believing what i believe to be correct. i want to be in the truth. i hope God leads me to it if im not already in it.

if you want to unskew my teaching could you show me how these verses work with premillennialism:


2 Thessalonians 1:6-9 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who afflict you, and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels in flaming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power,

i wish know who can be left in flesh? righteous are given rest when Jesus is revealed in flaming fire, destroying all those who dont know God or obey gospel so nobody left in flesh to go to the milleni kingdom?

Matthew 25:46 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

this also shows eternal consequences, nobody left in flesh again?

1 Corinthians 15:50 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

how can anyone inherit the kingdom (matt 25:34) in the flesh?

2 Peter 3:10-13 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.
Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

here again nobody is left since earth is destroyed and peter tells them we are looking forward to new heaven and earth not millennial kingdom. ?

my dear friends how do you answer these verses, if you could, bring me the knowledge. i am willing to learn the truth always i ask you. Lord help us all to truth. amen.

i just believe what i read in the new testament its clear but what is not clear is revelation 20 in my view, how can satan be bound while he is the god of this world? i confess brethren that is the weakness in my view, but can we discuss in christian love and fellowship strengths and weaknesses and maybe iron sharpens iron and we can learn how to make all the verses fit together?

Well the future is such a thing😊
As you said both will be. Millenium and new heaven and new earth.

I follow this view.: Jesus will come in the sky to take all believers ( death and alive), then 7 years reign of antichrist., then Jesus rescue Israel and beginn of millenium (during this time satan is bound) at the end of this time Satan fights against Jerusalem and will be thrown in lake of fire, then Judgement of all people. Then creating new heaven and new earth.
Details? Will come by timeme
So far my view. I am wrong? The future will show it.

Even after googling what kind a "critter" is a "pre-miiliniest", let alone, what they believe, or even teach? I have to admit? I still have no clue as to what kind, or kinds of doctrine/s, they are espousing.

If you would be so kind as to enlighten me, as to just what kind of people these are? It may help in trying to answer your inquiries.

Jez an FYI. I had not much clue as to what Calvinism, nor Arminainism, was/is, before I joined this site either.

If you mean me?
A premillianist believes Jesus returns to the earth before millenium. In short.
An Amillianist believes there is no millenium.

Hello Melach,

(Part I)

What it appears that you are not taking into consideration, is that the event of the Lord's appearing to gather His church is a separate event vs. when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. Because believers are not appointed to suffer God's coming wrath, or any wrath, believers must then be removed prior to said wrath.

The other thing that you are not taking into consideration, are those who will become believers in Christ during the time when God's wrath will be poured out on the earth via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments. This group is referred to as great tribulation saints, who are introduced in Rev.7:9-17 as revealed below:

===============================================
"After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands."

"Then one of the elders addressed me: “These in white robes,” he asked, “who are they, and where have they come from?”

“Sir,” I answered, “you know.”

So he replied, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
==================================================

The very fact that the elder is asking John who this group is, would demonstrate that they are not the church. Since this group is said to be from every nation, tribe, people and language, that would make them all Gentiles. While many of them will be killed for their testimony of Jesus and the word of God and who will not worship the beast, his image, nor receive his mark, there will be some who survive through the time of God's wrath until the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. It is these, along with the Woman/Israel, who will enter into the millennial kingdom in their mortal bodies and will repopulate the earth. Those great tribulation saints who died during the time of God's wrath will be resurrected when the Lord returns to end the age, as revealed in Rev.20:4-6

Matthew 25:46 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Click to expand...

The above is the separation of the sheep and the goats, which will take place when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. Both the sheep and the goats will be those who will have made it alive through the time of God's wrath. While the goats on His left are thrown into the lake of fire, the sheep are the one's who will enter into the millennial period in their mortal bodies and will repopulate the earth.

(Continued)

(Part II)

1 Corinthians 15:50 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
Now I say this, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable.

Click to expand...

They can't inherit the kingdom of God in the flesh, which is why those who are still alive at the time of the resurrection will be transformed into their immortal and glorified bodies when the Lord descends to meet His church in the air, as revealed below:

"For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord."

"Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must be clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality.

2 Peter 3:10-13 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up. Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat! But according to His promise we are looking for new heavens and a new earth, in which righteousness dwells.

Click to expand...

Since we have scripture that speaks of a thousand years, which takes place after the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. And we have the information from Peter above. Because God's word must take place, then both must be true, i.e. there must be a thousand years and the heavens and earth must pass away and be burned up and there must be a new heaven and new earth. Since these are all true, then what Peter is saying about is a generalization and not sequential. Therefore, since a thousand years is mentioned six time within Rev.20:1 thru 7 and scripture makes clear that the this heaven and earth must be destroyed, then the only conclusion is that, the millennial kingdom must take place first, followed by the destruction of this present heaven and earth.

Instead of taking all of scripture into account, what you are doing is picking one event and ignoring the others.

Below is the chronological order of events according to the word of God:

* The church is still in the process of being built

* Once the church is completed, Jesus descends to the air and calls up the church, dead and living, taking them back to the Father's house (John 14:1-3, 1 Thess 4:13-17, 1 Cor.15:51-53, Rev.4:1-2)

* The antichrist establishes his seven year covenant with Israel (Dan.9:27, Matt.24:15)

* The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will continue throughout the entire seven years like a woman having birth pains

* In the middle of the seven years, the abomination is set up which cause Israel to flee out to that place God will have prepared for her where she will be cared for during the last 3 1/2 years of that seven year period (Matt.24:15-22, Rev.12:6, 14)

* Also in the middle of the seven years, the beast is given authority to make war and conquer the great tribulation saints until Christ returns to end the age. (Dan.7:25, Rev.13:7)

* After the seventh bowl has been poured out, which completes God's wrath, Jesus will return to the earth to end the age and the church will be following him out of heaven riding on white horses. (Rev.17:14, 19:6-8, 14)

* The beast and the false prophet will be thrown alive into the lake of fire

* An angel will call to all the birds/vultures of the air, calling them to the great supper of God. (Rev.19:17-18)

* All of the kings, generals, their armies and all of the wicked whom the angels will have gathered from all over the earth, will be killed by that doubled-edged sword that proceeds from the mouth of the Lord/rider on the white horse and the birds will gorge themselves on their flesh. (Rev.16:13-16, 19:14, 21)

* Satan will be seized by a mighty angel and thrown into the Abyss and sealed and locked over him for a thousand years, so that he cannot deceive the nations during that time period. (Rev.20:1-7)

* The great tribulation saints who died during the time of God's wrath by the beast, will be resurrected as those also belonging to the first resurrection and will rule with Christ during that thousand years/millennial kingdom. (Rev.20:4-6)

* After the end of the thousand years/millennium, Satan will be release for one last rebelion and will then be thrown into the lake of fire, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. (Rev.19:20, 20:7-10)

* After the thousand years, the great white throne judgment of all the unrighteous dead will take place, with them being resurrected out of Sheol/Hades and standing before God to be held accountable for every sin they ever committed. Anyone's name not found written in the book of life will be thrown into the lake of fire, which is the second death. (Rev.20:11-15)

* Present heaven and earth pass away

* New heaven, new earth, new Jerusalem

* Eternity ===============================================================>

Hope that this helps clear things up

Please don't believe in premillennialism the Bible does not teach it. I will try my best to give you some things to consider. Maybe this will help you.

This letter was not written to us. This was written to the Thessalonians in about 51/52 A.D. In order for the above to be true they must have received relief in their lifetimes. They did at the fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.

Christ said multiple times in the NT that His kingdom is a spiritual kingdom. It is not physical. He told the pharisees in Luke 17: 20-21 that it does not come with observation for it is within you. God lives in our hearts. All future second coming teachings whether they are premill, amill or postmill all miss what the kingdom really is. It is within you. Jesus will not come flying out of the sky regardless of what other Christians try to tell you.

This is what I call "de-creation" language. There are Scriptures that say that the earth endures forever and others that say it is destroyed. How can both be true? The Scriptures that say the earth endures forever are literal. The ones that say it will be destroyed, like 2 peter 3, are poetic/figurative language. Look at Isaiah 13: 9-10, Isaiah 34: 4-5, Ezekiel 32: 7-9. These passages describe the "end of the universe/world" but it is really the end of a people being judged by God. It is the end of the world for them. "De-creation" language is always used this way in the Bible and is always non-literal.

2 peter 3 is talking about the destruction of old covenant Israel and the fallen principalities and powers of the old Adamic world that rebelled with Satan. It is the passing away of the "old heavens and earth". The "new heavens and earth" is simply Christ's kingdom and His bride, the church, who will rule and reign with Him forever in Heaven. What does Revelation 21 describe? Not a remade physical world like many Christians will try to claim. It describes His church. What does Isaiah 65: 1-16 describe? Rebellious old covenant Israel. Then what does verse 17-18 say when it introduces the new heavens and earth? A new people. The same people in Rev 21.

Jesus already came back in 70 A.D. Christians have missed it for 2,000 years for the same reason the Pharisees missed it. They want a physical kingdom but Jesus says the kingdom does not come with observation. If it does not come with observation then why have my fellow Christians been teaching for 2,000 years that it comes with observation? Because they deny Scripture and won't accept what it says. God lives within His church. He is the light of the city. The New Jerusalem. It is on earth now.

I hope this can make some sense to you. It is the truth of what the Scripture actually teaches. Many who post on these forums reject God's Word on this though. If you have any other questions I would be happy to try and help you understand. God bless.

The letter was written to the Thessalonians and to all believers delirious. The resurrection mentioned in the letter has not yet taken place, yet it was written to the Thessalonians.

It is also a physical place, with a real city the new Jerusalem complete with the real measurements of the depth, height and width of its walls, with twelve gates each made from a single pearl and the city of pure gold (gold is a physical element.)

Jesus resurrected in the same physical body that He was crucified in, raised glorified and immortal. Believers will also be raised in the same bodies that they lived in. The word "anastasis" translated as "resurrection" is defined as "to stand up again in the same body."

These resurrected bodies that will be physical will be immortal and glorified and will have supernatural abilities.

The above is a human explanation, a false apologetic. The earth will go on because this present earth will pass away, but God will also create a new heaven and earth, as revealed in Revelation chapters 21 & 22.

You are a false teacher! Jesus' return takes place at the end of the age, after God's wrath has been poured out, which hasn't happened yet. Regarding His return He also said:

"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. And He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other."

"Behold, He is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see Him—even those who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. So shall it be! Amen."

The event above has also not yet take place. When the Lord does return as described above, that will be the end of the age and the end of human government and the establishment of His millennial kingdom. Consequently, there is no record of the world seeing the Lord appearing in heaven with all of the people of the earth mourning because of Him. And likewise, there is no record of Him sending His angels out to gather the wicked or His elect.

The error is that, the Lord's promise was/is to the entire church, not just 34 years of it. By having the Lord already returning in 70 AD and the resurrection already taking place, the Lord's promise would exclude the majority of the church, which is still in the process of being built.

Why don't you stop repeating that preterist blather and believe in the word of God?

The world is not going to be Christianized by the church in preparation for the Lord. In fact, the word of God teaches that the world will get worse, especially after the church is removed. You people have no idea what you are talking about!

It could be 144,000 saved/redeemed from Israel that enter the millenium kingdom, and then the rest to be judged after 1000 years. These people are going to rule and reign with Christ on earth from the land of Israel.

As for flesh, well it will be our glorified bodies that are incorrupitble in the kingdom, not our flesh. Thats why in revelation talks about our white robes, all washed clean. Nobody will be entering the gates naked.

I hope that helps. Dont quite understand why their souls would be beheaded...but something happens with the mark of the beast at that time, and these people refuse to take the mark. Instead, they have the name of God and his city on their foreheads.


Am just going by what it says in revlation, obviously people have many different ideas on what it means, but the premillienalists is only pre- because Jesus comes back at the start of this millenium to rule and reign WITN these people theres no kingdom without a King. Theres a throne and all thes epeople are surrounding the throne. How can we have a kingdom without Jesus present. Hes not gonna be this invisible person. The judgments are going to happen because these people going to be sitting on the thrones with Jesus,

When the new Jerusalem comes down it will be complete with not only the lamb of God be there with God and everyone else...all that is wicked and evil cant ever enter as they would all have been cast into the lake of fire.

dear brother. i thank you for providing a long response to my topic. thank you for the contribution

you are right that i dont believe Lord coming in 1 thessalonians 4:15-17 and second coming are separate comings. i believe in only one second coming.
mostly because matthew 24:31 and 1 thessalonians 4:15-17 look very same for me.

the bible says first resurrection is in revelation 20. so even in premillennial belief, how can there be resurrection before the first resurrection then it would be second? you understand? how do you handle that objection? i write in christian love no hate or spite in my heart.

we are now in agreement about sheep and goats because i noticed no resurrection is mentioned in there its only living people. thank you Lord Jesus for showing me that. thank you Jesus for Ahwatukee Delirious and wolfwint and NayborBear for talking with me and responding in love bless them all. Lord help us keep this form of conversation. thank you for what Ahwatukee has shared. amen.

thank you for concern. but i will say with no hate in my heart that i disagree with what you are saying that Jesus already came back. the curse has not yet been lifted from earth. its still death and disease here.

Hello Lanolin,

Those mentioned in white robes in Rev.7:9-17 is not the church, but are Gentiles who will become believers after the church has been gathered and during the time of God's wrath referred to as the great tribulation saints. These are those who will be beheaded and that because of their testimony of Jesus and the word of God and who will not have worshiped the beast, his image nor received his mark. The church will have been removed prior to the revealing of the antichrist, which initiates the day of the Lord. The church is never mentioned again after the end of chapter 3 and during the narrative of God's wrath, which is chapters 6 thru 18. In fact, Rev.4:1-2 is a prophetic allusion to the gathering of the church.

We pretty much believe the same, just wanted to note that I believe that the final White Throne Judgement is only for the lost. Kind of like a final sentencing.

Satan is PRESENTLY the god of this world. But that will not last much longer. So without going into a lot of detail here is how events will unfold until the New Heavens and the New Earth are established.

1. The great apostasy or falling away in Christendom (coming to a head right now)
2. The building of the third temple in Jerusalem by unbelieving Jews
3. The Resurrection/Rapture of the Church
4. The removal of the Holy Spirit from earth to allow the Antichrist 3 1/2 years
5. The revelation and reign of the Antichrist and Satan
6. The Tribulation during the reign of the Antichrist (primarily for Jews) (3 1/2 years)
7. The Abomination of Desolation set up in the temple by the Antichrist
8. The Great Tribulation (3 1/2 years less a few months)
9. The shaking of the heavens and the earth (cosmic events)
10. The Second Coming of Christ
11. The battle of Armageddon and the judgment of the nations
12. The gathering of the believing Jewish remnant to Israel
13. The imprisonment of Satan (and his evil angels)
14. The Millennial Kingdom of Christ
15. The release of Satan for the battle of Gog and Magog
16. The Great White Throne Judgment (and the end of death and Hades)
17. The supernatural purifying burning up of the earth and its atmosphere
18. The establishment of the New Heavens and the New Earth

The Thessalonians did receive relief in 70 A.D. just like the letter says otherwise it was a false promise. The resurrection also took place you just don't understand it.

The first verse of Revelation tells you the book is encoded in signs and symbols but you ignore that because it does not fit your paradigm and read it literally.

Jesus' resurrection was a sign. He says so Himself. He appears several different times after the resurrection in different forms to the believers. Physical bodies don't change forms. Nowhere does it say Christians are raised in the same body. Reread 1 Corinthians 15.

It's what the Scripture says. You just don't like it. The new heavens and earth is not a physically remade universe. Plenty of Scripture refutes that idea.

The irony of this statement is rich.

He said that would happen in His generation. You also deny what the Scripture says on that.

He did come in 70 A.D. He came through the Roman armies. Just like He said in many places; Matt 22: 1-14 being one example. Josephus records the chariots beings seen in the sky. Suetonius, the Roman historian, records the same thing. The resurrection happened in the spiritual realm. That's why it's not recorded.

False statement which doesn't understand the nature of the kingdom.

I do. You don't. I have had many discussions with you and they are always a waste of time. I truly hope they bless somebody, somehow, that might read them. That's the only reason I respond to you.

7 passages from Jesus' own lips say that His second coming was in His generation. Matt 16: 27-28, Mark 8: 38-9:1, Luke 9: 26-27, Matt 24: 34, Mark 13: 30, Luke 21: 32 and Matt 10: 23. I have already attempted to discuss these with you and you have NEVER answered them. Just came up with fanciful interpretations that the Scripture refutes.

Once again, the irony is rich in your statement. When you die you and meet the Lord you will find out that all your dispensationalism was wood, hay and stubble. Talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. Like it is with many dispensationalists. Nevertheless, I harbor no ill will towards you, or any of them, and wish you well in your studies. God bless.

By the way, I don't claim to have perfect understanding of the Bible. I have made doctrinal mistakes more than once or twice in my journey following the Lord. They are very humbling. There are many things in the Bible I scratch my head over everyday and will until the day I die. But on this particular topic I have the truth. I accept what the Scripture says. I wish other Christians would.

The Bible plainly states that this heaven, and earth shall pass away, and be no more, which the heavens shall melt with fervent heat, and dissolve, and the earth shall be burned up, and the works of it.

That is because all sin must be purged with fire, and heaven has been tainted by the fallen angels, and earth by people, and it is spiritual for the new heaven and earth.

Also the wicked shall go in to the lower parts of the earth, which is hell, and death and hell are cast in to the lake of fire, so the earth will be cast in to the lake of fire where it will be burned up.

Jesus went away from the earth to create a new heaven and earth, and said He made all things new, and the former has passed away.

Which God said He creates a new heaven and new earth, and the former shall not be remembered, nor come to mind, for they are associated with sin and rebellion.

Peter said that the old heaven and earth will pass away, and there will be a new heaven and earth wherein dwells righteousness, which means it is a place where sin has never been, and sin will never be, and sin and rebellion will never come up again.

When the saints and angels are at the New Jerusalem, the new heaven and earth, they will remember nothing prior to it, and will feel as if they have always been there, and nowhere else.

Jesus said that until heaven and earth pass away not one tittle, or jot, shall pass from the law until all is fulfilled.

Jesus has not fulfilled the role of perfect King on earth, and it must be done on earth, for He came as a humble servant, and not King, for He has to fulfill the moral law, and all the roles associated with Israel such as King, Prophet, Saint, High Priest, sacrifice, temple, and whatever else He had to fulfill.

Jesus has not fulfilled the role of perfect King on earth yet, and that is what the millennial reign is about.

Which God said He is going to gather the whole house of Israel back to their land, which will happen when the New Age Christ, man of sin, establishes peace in the Middle East, for it will pave the way for all Jews to go back to Israel, for the Gentile nations will see to it, and the man of sin wants them all on their land so he can claim to be their God and Messiah, but God means it for good towards the Jews, which He said He will leave none of the Jews in the Gentile nations anymore.

God will turn Israel as a nation to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah, and restore the kingdom on earth back to the Jews.

God said He will gather all nations together against Israel, and then the LORD shall go forth and fight against those nations as He fought in the day of battle, the battle of Armageddon.

Which God said He makes Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people, and anyone that burdens themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, although the whole earth is gathered together against her.

For people that think it happened in the first century the whole earth was not gathered together against Jerusalem, and not even the then known world was gathered together against her, for it was only the Roman Empire.

If it applies to the then known world, then every nation, and kingdom, in the Bible would of been against her, for they are known, but was Egypt, and African nations there, no, was Arab nations there, no.

This is a future war, and the kingdom will be restored to the Jews.

The beast has power over all nations, kindreds, and tongues, and that kingdom shall devour the whole earth, tread it down, and break it in pieces, and when the world following the beast attacks the Jews God will come back with all the saints, and defeat the world, and save Israel.

And then Jesus shall rule out of Jerusalem on the throne of David over the heathen.

Which the Bible says the LORD shall be King over all the earth, and in that day there shall be one LORD and His name one, which means that the heathen shall not acknowledge any God, or religious figure, but Jesus.

And the heathen have to go up year after year to Jerusalem to worship the LORD, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Satan is bound, and put in the bottomless pit for the millennial reign of Christ, and there is peace on earth, and Jesus will rule with an iron rod, and it will only be His way, and no other way.

So for people that think the millennial reign is spiritual then why is it for only a 1000 years when Jesus is King ever since He ascended to heaven, which is more than a 1000 years, and how He is ruling, and with an iron rod, if there was rebellious people ever since He ascended, and how was there peace on earth at any time that shall occur during the 1000 years, for people have been warring ever since He ascended.

Jesus and the saints will rule over the heathen that are left of the nations that went against Jerusalem, the Jews, and the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went in to captivity because they transgressed against God, but He was always on their side, and when they have borne their shame then the kingdom is restored to them.

When the millennial reign is over the earth and heaven shall be burned up, and pass away, and the saints will be at the new heaven and earth where sin has never been, and sin will never be.

There is a millennial reign, for Jesus has to fulfill the role of perfect King on earth, then the law is completely fulfilled, and He will rule over the heathen that God spared at the battle of Armageddon.

And the role of perfect King must be on earth, a physical reign of Jesus, although He will be spiritual in a glorified body, along with the saints in glorified bodies, ruling over the heathens.