Sirach: Its Relevance to Jesus' Teaching and Christian Spirituality

Christ had infered that the Father was all knowing but He merely did what the Father tells Him to do. I wouldn’t assume Christ was omnipotent in human form. Even though He had full understanding of what the scriptures mean, He might have had to become familiar with their written form. The “word” (logos) doesn’t mean a written “thing”. Logos is where we get the word logic from. A closer interpretation would mean the order or organization of thoughts. Words (letters ordered to represent thoughts) in the spirit realm are unnecessary. In spirit, knowledge is passed more like a download. Words are used to explain it to people who aren’t spiritually connected and need to be taught. When Christ came He might have had to learn words (written) to communicate, explaining their intended meanings. I’m sure if Christ came as a walking, talking, all knowing one month old, it wouldn’t have taken thirty years to start a ministry.

Before I knew anything, my father was the smartest, most knowledgeable man ever. To me he knew all things. Regardless, this could be where words betray meaning. Like I said, knowing is different than communicating. Even if Christ had complete understanding, His ability to communicate is dependent on the hearers knowledge. If I spoke to an African tribe with five hundred words in their dialect, my ability to pass on knowledge of biomechanics is limited. You just can’t get specific enough.

As well, both of these instances were after His fasting in the wilderness, which I believe was a pivotal point, enabling the Spirit to flow through His vessel like a conduit, influencing the physical world directly.

"It seems as though, when God wants to express to men what He is like, He makes a very beautiful character. Think of a personality as God's expression of character attributes. Be as fit an expression of Godlike character as you can. When the beauty of a person's character is impressed upon us, it leaves an image which in turn reflects through our own actions. So look for beauty of character in those around you."
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"Let us pray that we may look at great souls until their beauty of character becomes a part of our soul.
Let us pray that we may reflect this character in our own life."
'Praise God'

It seems many who comment on Jesus, Yeshua, are stuck in the thinking He needed teachers even to the point of making Him a slave to Judaism, which is only another denomination since His coming and has divided itslef into many other cults than just original judaism.

Jesus was a Jew but He was not allied to their newly developing denominations derived from varied forms of rabbinical teaching.

He taugtht the meaning of the faith of Abraham. Do not jump at this for I would say 99.9 per cent of people have not a clue what this means. Sorry. All blessings to those in Jesus, Yeshua, amen. Also all blessings to those who eill be in Him, amen.

Nurture! "He emptied Himself" (Philippians 2:7). Emptied Himself of what? His divine prerogativse--omniscience, omnipotence, etc. Therefore. he had to grow "in wisdom and favor wit God" just like the rest of us (Luke 2:52). Your Jesus is an inhuman that is not credible to the unchurched. He assumed all our limitations to become fully human. Why do you think His own family thought He was a fraud during His public ministry (John 7:6; Mark 3:21; 6:4). They saw nothing superhuman in His earlier life as a boy and a carpenter!

(1) Here are just 3 examples of how Jesus integrates some of the best of contemporary rabbinic teaching into His repertoire:
(a) Jesus' application of the Lord's Prayer draws on the tradition preserved in Sirach 28:2:
"Forgive your neighbor the wrong he has done, and then your sins will be pardoned when your pray (Sirach 28:2)."
//s "If you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you (Matthew 6:14)."
(b) The Lord's Prayer is an adaptation of the ancient Jewish liturgy, especially the first stanza of the rabbinic Kaddish prayer.
(c) In telling parables, Jesus is adapting and upgrading parables on the same themes already told by contemporary rabbis.
For more, read my reply to Deuteronomy earlier in the thread.

The word translated GOD is in the Genitive Case in the Greek. The NIV in which you are using here is ignoring that. If one must translate Morph to nature. Then it must read, who being in the very nature of GOD, not the very nature GOD.

There are other issues too. But if this post here is for naught then there is no reason to go into the others. Outside of that it will suffice to leave the following for your consideration.

So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
(Gen 1:27 KJV)
Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.
(2Co 5:17-20 KJV)
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,
(Heb 2:10-11 KJV)

A prophet is not without honor except in His own country in His own home. However Mary seemed to know instinctively that Jesus was capable of handling the wine deficiency at the wedding of Cana. Also, she did learn about her sNon first from Gabriel.

Concerning the extra biblical books, how many do we need to get the message across to us concerning the word of God, for I think the 66 books cover it.

It is like a preacher that preaches for 1 hour on a sermon that could of been summed up in 5 minutes.

Jesus went to the synagogue, and read a scripture from the book of Isaiah, and said today this is fulfilled in your ears, and sat down.

He did not go on for an hour to get the message across.

Why do we need the extra books if it is already covered with the 66 books, and it appears to me that it is really coming from people trying to disguise it as if it is coming from God.

I believe if we really want we can copy the Bible, and say what it already says, but worded a little different, and make it sound half way decent as if it is another scripture from God, but actually saying the same thing that we already have in the Bible.

Why do we need Sirach if we already have Proverbs.

Shall we have a book of 30 chapters that goes like this. Chapter 1, I went to the store to pick up some milk, Chapter 2, I got some milk when I went to the store, Chapter 3, When I traveled to the market I got some of that delicious cow substance, and so on, before we understand what is being portrayed.

Oh now I understand after Chapter 30.

I know we are humans not as intelligent as God, but we are not that dumb, and things register faster than what some people might think.

So I do not understand the extra books for I do not know what there is to learn when the 66 books cover it, for why have repeat after repeat, and even say things that do not even matter.

Like Bel and the Dragon, but Daniel already told king Nebuchadnezzar that he worships no other God, but the God of Israel, so why have him saying the same thing to the Persian king, and going over that story again with a different king.

Which it is easy to copy from the Bible, and tell a story that sounds like another story, and then say it comes from God, although when it comes from God it will be better sounding, and sound with more authority.

For you can tell.

Like the Quran reads like a joke compared to the Bible, for you can hear the authority, of the Bible, and how great it is written compared to other religions when it comes from God.

But then again the 66 books covers it all, so why have repeats, and then speak of things that do not matter with the extra books.

I really do not understand the benefit of them, and if God is in control, and it is His word, why is it the Catholic Bible whose foundation is of paganism that did not get rid of their religious ways when they embraced the Bible, and Christianity, and it became their foundation for the interpretation of scriptures, have the extra books.

For not only do they have extra books, but they also have extra practices, and beliefs, than the Protestant Churches, and what the Bible teaches.

I wonder if people argue over other books like they do the Bible, like Dr. Seuss, Green Eggs and Ham.

Oh it is not Green Eggs and Ham, but it is Blue Eggs and Steak, a nice thick porterhouse steak, for that is the truth, for I do not accept the color Green, or Ham as truth, and is a wrong translation on the part of people, and not what Dr. Seuss intended from the beginning, but he could do nothing about it for the Illuminati prevented him from speaking out against it, and it remained in it's falsehood, Green Eggs and Ham.

Yea dont believe the catholics and all their extra books and stuff. Praying to the dead and whatnot.
The catholic influence is so profound that some people believe if they commit suicide they go straight to heaven. I know cos a neighbour tried to do that. He kept trying to communicate with his dead dad, and he thought his mum was near dying, so decided he would top himself first to be with his dad and meet her in heaven, he would never have tried if he wasnt influenced by catholic teachings.

He didnt die. GOd saved him again. (He had attempted at other times before) The thing is with catholics they have a warped sense of who God is.

Sorry.
Im not prepared to go visit him in the mental ward again if he continues on thinking like this. He wouldnt give up his idols either, and now hes not even talking to me since giving him the Word. But you know what, God knows all about that.

If some want to believe green eggs and ham or sirach or whatever is part of the Bible, they can, but They cant make others believe a lie if they already know the truth.

I would suggest the word of God does not draw its thoughts from the traditions of corrupted men, neither Jew nor Gentile. Just as we are informed one is our father in heaven we are to call no man on earth father.. the same applies to teacher, master.

Even the Son of man when called good master refused to stand in the Holy unseen place of our father in heaven and said. Only God not seen is good .Flesh and blood could never enter that good place reserved for him unseen.

The Lord's Prayer has nothing to do with being served by the hands or will of man. It would seem you are adding to the scriptures widening its authority to include the private interpretations of men .Good wisdom but not of God who alone is good.

Jesus integrated, 2,000 years ago, contemporary rabbinical teachings? Somehow someone is confused here...………..

Jesus warned us of rabbinical teaching, such as teaching the traditions of man as commandment from God…….

sounds like what the corrupt pharisee leaders told the masses when Jesus spoke of them hiding the keys to the kingdom. how much longer before they start tossing out from those 66 books, one day there will be no books left. but by then people will be so dumbed down they will believe they didnt need those books anyway.

Jesus used several teachings of Hillel the Elder.

if you think Jesus's teaching came from Him reading a bunch of rabbi's essays and regurgitating and/or incorporating it, i really think you have a very different picture of who He is and what He came and did than the picture in the Bible of Him.

Sirach is based on Proverbs. Jesus is God. Scripture is God-breathed. Jesus effectively wrote Proverbs Himself - He is God, and Proverbs is inspired by God.

if Hillel said anything true, he got it from God - Jesus didn't learn truth 2nd or 3rd hand; He is the Truth. He is the origin of any truth that ever existed in Hillel.

i dont know why He used them, im just showing that He did in fact use them. the pharisee leaders in the days of Jesus had lost their way from the Jewish leaders in the days of Hellel (100 yrs) maybe He was using the teachings to show what they had fell from. just because something is said by a pharisee or a rabbi does not make it wrong.
we use Pauls teachings all the time, he was not Jesus nor one one the 12 but still a good teacher we can learn from.