Not By Works

for the record...

i see being old as a blessing

and being retired as my goal in terms of physical labor

(both wonderful marks i hope to reach, God willing i last that long or Jesus doesn't come back first to set things straight)


you are a mature brother in Christ

and i love maaaany of the posts i see from you

ive also learned more than once


God bless you brother

Sadly I have to agree with you. Paul never spoke like this, because it is presumptious and
we only know our own perspectives and God searches out and sees much more.

I try and not to judge others, because it is very easy to take written words and not see the man
or woman and what they actually meant.

I think sometimes we get a new insight, and then start to think we have reached something central
and forget we are fallen and easily take the next step wrong. It becomes a bad fight when we do
not just pray and seek the Lord.

Is calling someone utterly lost any different from saying to them "God help your soul?

The trouble with condemning the preaching of the gospel is one stands in judgement over Gods
message of salvation. It has spiritual consequences once we start doing this.
Paul says something simple, "God bless those who preach the gospel, because Praise the Lord it
is being preached."

Maybe you do not see the difference, but where His word is preached it never returns void, Amen.

I'm sorry but I don't get the above quote.

"There is no way you can love another person without obeying God"

I'm going to use adultery as you quote above.

A couple who have been married whether it be 10/20/30/40/50 years.
Neither have committed adultery, love each other deeply. Care for each other, put each other first. Therefore love each other.

If that's the case then are you saying they are obeying God?
I ask the same of murder and stealing. Never murdered or stole.

So if they are obeying God but do not believe in God or Jesus.

Are they saved because they are obedient to the commands of God?

This reminds me of Peter and Judas.
Peter in denying Jesus threatened His salvation, unless Peter kept the faith.
Judas never returned, and realised he had betrayed all that was dear to him.

Many times I have stood and thought I could condemn, and known who am I to judge Gods work.
God uses everything, and blesses one with His Spirit, while the next person could be totally deceived
and following something else.

So my enemies are in His hands, being used to bring about His purposes. God used the babylonians
to bring Israel low, which finally led to the Israel and the pharisees. And these pharisees were us, who
killed our Lord, and through all this He brought our salvation, Amen, praise His name.

So I will always warn against standing against His gospel of salvation and love to mankind.
Put simply His sheep do not oppose His good news, it is their life blood.

Some believe FAITH is a work because it has to be freely given by God.

I think that basically what is happening is we have a generation of very selfish persons that think only of themselves and that want life handed to them on a silver platter.

So they want the faith they believe in to be the same.
Problem is that this is wrong and they are in danger of being lost.

Jesus left very firm instructions and so did Paul.
My suggestion would be that we follow those instructions...but apparently
some want Jesus as Savior but not as Lord.

Luke 6:46 Jesus said:
"Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?"

My suggestion to everyone would be to find out WHAT Jesus said.

Yes. Of course.
We are required to obey God....to keep our salvation.

Can you think of any time in the entire bible where God did NOT require obedience?
Do you think that because Jesus died for you it is no longer required for you to obey God?

Have you read through the book of John?
Do you understand what Jesus required of you?

I suggest you find out.

It's worse than that:


1. Most posters here do not know what believe means...even though they love to say they turn to the greek for understanding. Apparently, just for what suits them because if they knew anything about greek,,,they'd know what believe means.

2. In Greek obey is implicit in the word believe. In fact, to disobey means to disbelieve.
I've posted many links on this but they do not matter. Everyone here believes only what they want to believe.

It's unfortunate.

Let me give you a little bit of advice.

Now for some they will and can interpret that as an accusation.
The thing that you do not like, yet if I'm honest you yourself say that you are being attacked.

If you want interaction then maybe before you hit post review what you are going to say, think of the person you are responding to.

You will get to know them if you read thier posts.

So condemning the preaching of the Gospel.

Either side of the equation of what one believes is the gospel, if one condemn the others gospel is not one standing in judgement?

If so is not one condemning the other person?

So back to the question I asked you

It is an interesting way of talking, we obey to keep our salvation.
Sounds when put this way, we do not care about God, love or righteousness, just privilege.

We obey because our hearts are embedded in who God is and how love works through us.
If we started to hate God and His rule, then we would go after pleasures of the flesh and fall
into sin and destruction and death. So to my mind it all centres on the Father and who He is.

If we focus on our behaviour we already are losing our relationship and reality.
We are emotional creatures and our behaviour works from where our treasure and security is.
It is so strong people will die over their heart loyalties above anything else.

But then those who do not love God and hate His ways cannot imagine this world because they
have not even entered it. So many seem to imagine they have attained something when their
hearts declare another kingdom entirely. Praise God we are His and He keeps us safe, Amen

Praise God. My brother from another mother Deontay Wilder has been offered a 100$ million deal by DAZN! His dauhgter has spina bifida, they are set for life now!

The rollie hit hard and the flash aint even on it! 100$ Million

if we don't obey God and continue in non-obedience...
we will become lost.

I don't really speak about obeying God, although I know I want to AND HAVE TO,,,
however, when I hear persons say that it's not necessary, then I will say that God is not only happy when we obey but He demands it.

From Genesis to Revelation.

Hi Bill,
There is no neutral place here my friend.
Either you stand with repentance, turning from sin and turning to God and walking in His ways or you are not.

For as long as I live, I will die upon this reality. Anyone who condemns this is condemning Gods gospel of
salvation, and I will pray for their soul.

I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds
Acts 26:20

This is the problem with preaching and standing on Christs salvation. We live and die by our confession
of faith. Just read the Nazarene Church statement of faith, it is this clear.

I used to believe that God uses sin sometimes to humble us. Like, you sin and God uses that to humble you.

I stopped believing that because I realize now that sin HARDENS the heart. DOESNT humble anyone! WHAT WAS I THINKING!?

Another straw man argument.

Oh and regarding it sounding like privilege....

It sounds more like privilege to hear someone say they are saved so God does it all and they have to do nothing.

With every privilege comes responsibility....

Our responsibility is to obey God's commandments.

Ecclesiastes 12:13
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Luke 22:31-32

Jesus Predicts Peter’s Denial
(Matt. 26:31–35; Mark 14:27–31; John 13:36–38)
31 And the Lord said, “Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat. 32 But I have prayed for you, that your faith should not fail; and when you have returned to Me, strengthen your brethren.”

Peter did not keep the faith as such, he failed.
Jesus said that he prayed his faith should not fail.
But we notice Jesus said "And when the have returned to me"

So Peters salvation was not threatened and never in doubt in the mind and words of Jesus.

That's a genuine faith, a genuine faith in Jesus that will always come back to Jesus.
Jesus said "I will not lose one of them given to me"

I like you will always warn against standing against his Gospel of salvation if I disagree with the doctrine of the said gospel.

I would never stand against loving mankind.

But that is not the gospel.

Many great people and not great people love mankind, but that does not save them because they do not believe in God or Jesus

That's so good H.
I'm so bad with the O.T......

Of course we understand fear to be like the fear of, maybe, a parent...it means a healthy respect.
But even Jesus said to fear not the one that could destroy the body but the one that could destroy the body and soul.

We obey God because we love Him....this does not take away the fact that He demands that we obey Him.

Why is this such a scary thought to some...I'll never understand.