J
jaybird88
Guest
Why is communicating with the dead forbidden in most churches? Does the bible say any and every form of contact is off limits?
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Necromancy is forbidden strictly
Deuteronomy 18
10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.
11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
Leviticus 19:31 - Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I [am] the LORD your God.
Deuteronomy 18:9-12 - When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. (Read More...)
1 John 4:1 - Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Isaiah 8:19 - And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
2 Kings 21:6 - And he made his son pass through the fire, and observed times, and used enchantments, and dealt with familiar spirits and wizards: he wrought much wickedness in the sight of the LORD, to provoke [him] to anger.
Leviticus 20:6 - And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.
1 Samuel 28:7-19 - Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, [there is] a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor. (Read More...)
Leviticus 20:27 - A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood [shall be] upon them.
Revelation 21:8 - But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Deuteronomy 18
10 There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.
11 Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.
Leviticus 19:31 - Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I [am] the LORD your God.
Deuteronomy 18:9-12 - When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations. (Read More...)
1 John 4:1 - Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
Isaiah 8:19 - And when they shall say unto you, Seek unto them that have familiar spirits, and unto wizards that peep, and that mutter: should not a people seek unto their God? for the living to the dead?
2 Kings 21:6 - And he made his son pass through the fire, and observed times, and used enchantments, and dealt with familiar spirits and wizards: he wrought much wickedness in the sight of the LORD, to provoke [him] to anger.
Leviticus 20:6 - And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.
1 Samuel 28:7-19 - Then said Saul unto his servants, Seek me a woman that hath a familiar spirit, that I may go to her, and enquire of her. And his servants said to him, Behold, [there is] a woman that hath a familiar spirit at Endor. (Read More...)
Leviticus 20:27 - A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood [shall be] upon them.
Revelation 21:8 - But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
Probably because it's so boring. Being dead means that you can't hear what is being said or respond in any way, so talking to the dead is a massive waste of time. I don't know if the Bible prohibits talking to the dead, but it does explain this fact in Ecclesiastes 9:5 ("the dead know nothing") and some of the laws in Deuteronomy (you know, the ones that include not wearing clothes made from mixed cloths and not eating shrimp and stuff) say that this kind of time-wasting is abominable to God. So don't waste your time; talk to people who are still alive and can actually reciprocate instead!
Parenthetically, your avatar represents my favorite album by my favorite band. Good choice!
Parenthetically, your avatar represents my favorite album by my favorite band. Good choice!
Being as how the dead are asleep, you are talking to demons. If they say they are a lost loved one they are lying.
Lev. 20:27 "A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them."
J
jaybird88
Guest
Necromancy is asking Baal, Isis, or any other forbidden god to contact the dead.
The Old Testament forbids the use of mediums and witches to contact the dead. Saul did this anyway (bringing up Samuel from the dead), and here is what is said in I Chron. 10:13,14: " Saul died because he was unfaithful to the Lord; he did not keep the word of the Lord and even consulted a medium for guidance, and did not inquire of the Lord. So the Lord put him to death and turned the kingdom over to David son of Jesse."
When you say that "communicating with the dead is forbidden in most churches", I wonder what you mean? I have never heard of a church that even addresses this issue directly. Why? Because it is quite clear from Scripture that when a person dies their spirit either goes to be with God or their spirit goes to Hades.
I do not think the New Testament directly addresses the issue, but I think from the principles of Scripture the issue is quite clear. I would not mess with any sort of contacting the dead idea or syndrome: you will find out sooner or later it is connected to Satan or his demons!
When you say that "communicating with the dead is forbidden in most churches", I wonder what you mean? I have never heard of a church that even addresses this issue directly. Why? Because it is quite clear from Scripture that when a person dies their spirit either goes to be with God or their spirit goes to Hades.
I do not think the New Testament directly addresses the issue, but I think from the principles of Scripture the issue is quite clear. I would not mess with any sort of contacting the dead idea or syndrome: you will find out sooner or later it is connected to Satan or his demons!
J
jaybird88
Guest
Being as how the dead are asleep, you are talking to demons. If they say they are a lost loved one they are lying.
Lev. 20:27 "A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them."
so outside of this would there is no life, just eternal sleep?
J
jaybird88
Guest
most churches means i cant speak for every church. all the churches i know of say its of limits.
No, that is not true. Everybody, and I mean everybody, will be resurrected as per God's word. Rev. 20:5 "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection." On down in verses 12 and 13 we see the rest of the dead being resurrected.
J
jaybird88
Guest
When you die the physical death (the first death--death of the body), you are unconscious until the resurrection (just like all the time before you were born). Then there is the judgment, and you either die the second death (the death of the soul), or you live forever in God's presence. The second death is eternal, yes.
No. Necromancy is anything that has to do with the dead. Your talking about conjuring.
Going through boundaries to speak to a dead person. Been there, done that. Its dangerous territory and God says no
J
jaybird88
Guest
asking the Lord to say goodby to your wife of 50 years is necromancy? are you sure on that one? where can we confirm this one in scripture?
It depends with what you mean by 'dead', the truth is, in the new covenant, believers don't die but transition into life everlasting and their spirit indwells living believers where they both guide them and judge them. This is what the bible calls resurrection but no one understands it seems.
So i wouldn't say the living can talk to the dead but i can say the resurrected believers guide the living believers (together with Christ) but also judge them unto death if they continue going astray.
We see both Paul and Peter teach such:
2 Cor 4:
. 12So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.
13And in keeping with what is written: “I believed, therefore I have spoken,”c we who have the same spirit of faith also believe and therefore speak, 14knowing that the One who raised the Lord Jesus will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you in His presence. 15All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is extending to more and more people may overflow in thanksgiving, to the glory of God.
2 Pet 1:12Therefore, I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are established in the truth you now have. 13I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of my body, 14since I know that it will soon be laid aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 15And I will make every effort to ensure that after my departure, you will be able to recall these things at all times.
A whole doctrine is developed from that verse in 2 Peter by the Catholics, the doctrine of asking the saints intercede.
I'm not saying that we should pray to the saints to intercede but it is biblical that the saints actually indwell us and somehow guide us.
Heb 12:1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off every encumbrance and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with endurance the race set out for us.
The reason Paul used this argument for resurrection:
1 Cor 15:29If these things are not so, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?
So i wouldn't say the living can talk to the dead but i can say the resurrected believers guide the living believers (together with Christ) but also judge them unto death if they continue going astray.
We see both Paul and Peter teach such:
2 Cor 4:
. 12So then, death is at work in us, but life is at work in you.
13And in keeping with what is written: “I believed, therefore I have spoken,”c we who have the same spirit of faith also believe and therefore speak, 14knowing that the One who raised the Lord Jesus will also raise us with Jesus and present us with you in His presence. 15All this is for your benefit, so that the grace that is extending to more and more people may overflow in thanksgiving, to the glory of God.
2 Pet 1:12Therefore, I will always remind you of these things, even though you know them and are established in the truth you now have. 13I think it is right to refresh your memory as long as I live in the tent of my body, 14since I know that it will soon be laid aside, as our Lord Jesus Christ has made clear to me. 15And I will make every effort to ensure that after my departure, you will be able to recall these things at all times.
A whole doctrine is developed from that verse in 2 Peter by the Catholics, the doctrine of asking the saints intercede.
I'm not saying that we should pray to the saints to intercede but it is biblical that the saints actually indwell us and somehow guide us.
Heb 12:1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off every encumbrance and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with endurance the race set out for us.
The reason Paul used this argument for resurrection:
1 Cor 15:29If these things are not so, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?
why would you want God to say goodbye to someone?
wouldn't you rather He say hello -- and aren't to Him, all alive?
but that would be you speaking to God, not you trying to speak to a dead woman.
J
jaybird88
Guest
it seems strange to me that we are commanded to love our fellow man yet when someone we have loved very closely all our life passes on we are to show nothing and act as if they never existed. if only we had never loved them in the first place but the bible forbids that.
1 Thess 4:13Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 14For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord’s word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage one another with these words.
This was then (1st century), before the new covenant, believers slept but in the new covenant or church era, those that slept are resurrected and are caught together with the living. This is what is happening now.
John 5:
24“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life. 25Very truly I tell you, a time is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God and those who hear will live. 26For as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted the Son also to have life in himself. 27And he has given him authority to judge because he is the Son of Man.
28“Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice 29and come out—those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned.
"Use caution in the 'modern' 'thinking'....occults are an abomination...but know precisely
of prayer is an individuals right of communicating unto God of important events, and in
the hope of guidance and consoling of the heart and mind with loss of our loved ones.
Be not quick with knowledge, but earnest in acquiring wisdom."
'Praise God'
of prayer is an individuals right of communicating unto God of important events, and in
the hope of guidance and consoling of the heart and mind with loss of our loved ones.
Be not quick with knowledge, but earnest in acquiring wisdom."
'Praise God'
Attachments
Brother I am becoming quite concerned about you. Test the spirits. Dont let yourself be entrapped.
I was never able to say goodbye to my grandpa that i treated badly when i was a small child. he had to feel all my anger and years after he was dead guilt hit me. We will see them again at judgement day.
When God takes us home we are away here because our time here has run out and wethen move on to eternity. If God wanted us to speak with them or have contact with them then they would still live among us.
We see that bringing saul back to life was the end of david. Saul was very angry at david for disturbing him. we shouldnt do these things.
I know your feeling but please dont let the enemy get a foot into your life please.