Not By Works

So the “lost” don’t need salvation?


Typical redefining of God’s word to try and twist it into aligning with your man made doctrine.


Lost = sinner in need of repentance.




JPT

How in the world did you get that out of what I said?

Read a little further-

Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation. .John 5:28-29



those who have done good, to the resurrection of life,


and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.


JPT

I had to open up the post you responded too....just reaffirms why I have his drivel on ignore......He is one of the worst I have seen at "hanging a text" on the loss of salvation drivel and or twisting context to peddle said false point.....

I have learned its the guys who are friendly, polite, tell you what you want to hear that you got to look out for. JWs and mormons are the friendliest people i've ever met. Yet they are in major error.

I have told people regularly to "not listen" to this and that group, its not because im afraid of them knowing, I know a bunch of things about JWs, but what I mean by that is: BEWARE!
Because if you arent on your toes, these guys will deceive you with the way they WRAP the PACKAGE in friendly lingo and praise you for being such a great bible believer.

I believe my stance is semi-biblical too, because many times Jesus and the Apostles (not to mention OT prophets) did indeed offend people with their message.

Thanks brother and it is the truth....how yo doing migo?

"Good" being the only work that Jesus said we must do to have eternal life:

"Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?” Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.” (John 6:28-29)

Notice they said "works" and Jesus said "work".

"Evil" being those that have refused pardon through Christ and will reap the reward of their rebellion.

You're clearly one of those who tack on strings to the free gift of salvation. You add strict obedience to the good news of the gospel. You add works to what can never be earned. You make grace merited instead of what it actually is; UNmerited.

Or more properly: A Judaizer.

I know this.

The point I am trying to make is that you seem to be applying the principle in the prodical Son to that of the lost sheep.

The prodical Son returned on his own accord.

The sheep in both parables were sought out by the shepherd.

The word of God is SHARPER than any two edged sword and CUTS, PIERCES and DIVIDES......I am convinced that the word of God does one of two things.....It either draws you to God or it condemns and drives you away.................

MOST are offended at the word (I.E. worldly men and women) and many BELIEVERS cannot handle the full blown truth...(I.E. the MILK toast believers and or those who swallow hook, line and sinker the false gospels that will not save)

AMEN...........a working for salvation loser........

Not to mention he even embellished the view about ALL of heaven blah blah blah.......the word is SINNER that repents not a SHEEP........

and the context is a lost man repenting (changing their mind and agreeing with God and GETTING SAVED) not a saved man that LOST salvation and being re-saved.......pure ignorance

Obeying the truth, practicing righteousness, living according to the Spirit, loving God God and loving our neighbor, is being a judaizer?


Thanks bro, for showing us who inspires your Theology.


Those who love the world are enemies of God.



Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. James 4:4

• Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

Again

• If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him

Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—is not of the Father but is of the world. 1 John 2:15-16



Why would want to teach your children to love the world and to practice sin?





JPT

All 100 sheep belong to the shepherd in this scripture.


They are found, they are reconciled they are “justified”; right with God.



What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it?


“What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he loses one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the wilderness, and go after the one which is lost until he finds it? And when he has found it, he lays it on his shoulders, rejoicing. And when he comes home, he calls together his friends and neighbors, saying to them, Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’ I say to you that likewise there will be more joy in heaven over one sinner who repents than over ninety-nine just persons who need no repentance. Luke 15:4-7


Rejoice with me, for I have found my sheep which was lost!’



“My sheep”, that was lost.



Do the lost need salvation?






JPT

No soil is good soil by nature. Soil represents the hearers of the Word. No hearer of the Word is good by nature. Hearers of the Word receive the seed by a special working of the Grace of God. John 6:44, to the end of the chapter.

Soil (hearer of the Word) good or even neutral by nature is pelagianism

Pelagianism is a belief in Christianity that original sin did not taint human nature and that mortal will is still capable of choosing good or evil without special divine aid.

https://www.google.com/searchq=pela...rome..69i57.2967j0j1&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Semipelagianism- In semipelagian thought, therefore, a distinction is made between the beginning of faith and the increase of faith. Semipelagian thought teaches that the latter half – growing in faith – is the work of God, while the beginning of faith is an act of free will, with grace supervening only later.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semipelagianism

If a person believes that one can come to Christ without a Spirit wrought repentance and faith, they are teaching easy believism.

A person hears the Gospel, and the Spirit quickens them. Salvation is not a work of man, (decisional regeneration is false), it is the work of GOD.

What would you classify as "the world" what is "loving the world"? Is watching sports loving the world? is owning a boat loving the world?

now i dont own a boat, IM JUST ASKING! The only thing i own is the clothes on my back!

Who said I loved the world?

Dcon is right. You are a deceiver and twist what people actually say - adding whatever you like.

To the iggy bin you go.

It's you who is twisting the scriptures. You still stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that James said, "What use is it, my brethren, if someone says-claims he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?" What kind of faith is that? -- empty profession of faith/dead faith. (James 2:14-20)

The letter is written to "brethren" (believers) and so are ALL the epistles, yet this does not mean that the hypothetical person being discussed in James 2:14 is a believer and it also does not mean that everyone being discussed throughout every letter in every book in the New Testament are believers either. It's not hard to find "nominal" Christians mixed in with a group of genuine believers and that goes for Christian Chat as well.

You are really having a difficult time grasping the truth here. Once again, in James 2:14, we read of one who says-claims he has faith but has no resulting evidential works (to back up his claim). This is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" He is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. Simple!

False. James said says-claims to have faith and the lack of resulting evidential works demonstrates a spurious faith. It's so obvious if you would just open your eyes to the truth.

Dead faith is not living faith. James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Works bear out the justification that already came by faith. No works at all bear out a lack of genuine faith.

No, an empty profession of faith/dead faith that produces no works at all is not authentic faith IN CONTRAST with the faith of Abraham which was authentic faith that was evidenced by works. You seem to believe that all faith is the same except for the lack of works and cannot seem to grasp a deeper faith which trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation, which also explains why you have so much faith in works for salvation.

In James 2:21, notice closely that James does not say that Abraham's work of offering up Isaac resulted in God's accounting Abraham as righteous. The accounting of Abraham's faith as righteousness was made in Genesis 15:6, many years before his work of offering up Isaac recorded in Genesis 22. The work of Abraham did not have some kind of intrinsic merit to account him as righteous, but it showed or manifested the genuineness of his faith. This is the "sense" in which Abraham was "justified by works." He was shown to be righteous.

In James 2:22, faith made perfect or complete by works means bring to maturity, carry to the end, to complete like love in 1 John 4:18. It does not mean that Abraham was finally saved based on merits of his works after he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22. When Abraham performed the good work in Genesis 22; he fulfilled the expectations created by the pronouncement of his faith in Genesis 15:6.

In James 2:23, the scripture was fulfilled in vindicating or demonstrating that Abraham believed God and was accounted as righteous. Abraham was accounted as righteous based on his faith (Genesis 15:6) not his works (Romans 4:2-3) long before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22.

In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" here to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. Once again, James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3). Allow that to sink in.

In the Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible, the Greek word for justified "dikaioo" #1344 is:

1. to render righteous or such he ought to be
2. to show, exhibit, evince, one to be righteous, such as he is and wishes himself to be considered
3. to declare, pronounce, one to be just, righteous, or such as he ought to be

In Matthew 12:37, we read - "For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned." This is because our words (and our works) reveal the condition of our hearts. Words/works will be evidences for, or against a man's being in a state of righteousness.

God is said to have been justified by those who were baptized by John the Baptist (Luke 7:29). This act pronounced or declared God to be righteous. It did not make him righteous. The basis or ground for the pronouncement was the fact that God IS righteous. Notice that the NIV reads, "acknowledged that God's way was right.." The ESV reads, "they declared God just.." This is the "sense" in which God was "justified,." He was shown to be righteous.

Matthew 11:19 "The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Behold, a gluttonous man and a drunkard, a friend of tax-gatherers and sinners!' Yet wisdom is justified/vindicated/shown to be right by her deeds."

Abraham's faith was alive because he believed the Lord and it was credited to him as righteousness (Genesis 15:6; Romans 2:3). The works of Abraham gave evidence to his living faith, yet works are not the source of life in faith; rather life in faith is the source of works. You have it backwards, as do all works-salvationists.

You are thoroughly confused and still stubbornly refuse to acknowledge that James clearly stated - SAYS-CLAIMS (key word) to have faith but has no works. I do despise boasting in works because it robs Christ of His glory and of the credit He alone deserves and gives it to the sinner. Galatians 6:14 - But God forbid that I should boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. If you are looking for the amount of faith that saves, here it is. *Either we are trusting 100% in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation or else we are 100% lost.

Out of curiosity, I would like to know what church you attend.

A person must make the choice to obey the Gospel or not.


God gives each hearer of the Gospel the same gift of grace and faith to obey, however it’s up to each one of us to do the work of believing/obeying.



JPT

Without arguing with your whole post, I will merely say that without such grace as you mentioned in paragraph two, no one will come. Because no hearer of the Word is good or even neutral by nature. That would be a denial of sin nature. Do people here deny sin nature/fallenness of man?

The Gospel is heard and the soul is quickened/made alive by the work of the Spirit, not a decisional act of a prayer or a going to an altar, or being baptized.