Not By Works

how long would a good shepherd spend seeking out one lost sheep?

No and Judas was not a believer....never was........the scripture is clear.....

Jesus knew who is it was that WOULD NOT believe and who it was that WAS NOT CLEAN....<---JUDAS

Well, you can say that all you want to.

But MANY theologians do not agree with you.
Get that through your head.

Until he finds him......

Oh dear.
You mean the post where you called me dense and other stuff?

Until he finds him......

English has its flaws. i think there is a reason that God chose to pitch His tent among us when Greek had become the universal language of the area. His hand was certainly with Alexander, or that man could never have prospered as he did; it was God's will to raise him up and give so much into his hands.

the Bible is amazingly complex & self-referential in a way that no other text in the history of the world, that i'm aware of, has ever been. that's a really neat picture-analogy you put, about 'hyper text' - all these verses linking to others!
i never really had any inkling of just how extraordinary this Book is, until i started taking John 5:39 seriously as a command. i believed it, for sure, but i saw it just like the Vedas or the Koran or the I-Ching etc -- collective wisdom & history and law, with the exception that this was pure wisdom, untainted, and perfectly true. i think that's how most Christians view the Bible, actually.
but in John 5:39 we find Christ commanding to search the scriptures, saying that they testify of Him. ((a lot of translations have this wrong, IMO, in an awkward, interpretive attempt to make it readable in English, whatever 'readable' means -- it is specifically an imperative verb form, "search." He's not describing what they do, He's telling them, do this. and He tells them what to be searching for, because He says they testify of Him))

so when i look at the Bible searching for it testifying of Christ? it really comes alive. every single page, every single paragraph is webbed together with all other scripture in a fantastic, synchronous mesh of spiritual truth, speaking of and describing the work and person of Jesus, the Son and perfect projection of God into flesh. it's fractal, with repeating motifs on both large and small scales, and with what are called 'strange attractors' in math, like super-nodes in a graph, with a multitude of connections that hundreds of paths cross through - like Genesis 3, like John 1. there is no other book like this; it is alive, and powerful, and complex beyond human understanding!

.. as if God Himself is the only one who could have written it ((lol))

Agreed.
So if there is no fruit, or bad fruit...
there is no salvation.

Apparently given a few posts recently some say he won't find them because they have strayed too far and and some that the sheep is dead so won't be carried back.

Wow

not according to JPT tho.

he says, Jesus abandoned us all, and only us humans seek sheep that stray. Jesus won't look for you if you wander off; that's up someone else to do.

that don't sit well, ya know?
i mean, i've read Zechariah 11...

you are the pearl.
He is the one who sold everything and bought the whole field - the whole field of 'you' for the priceless treasure that is in you, that He sees, and knows, and went out to seek and save. His inheritance

if these parables are about salvation, we have to understand that it is not something man can buy - eternal life isn't something that rich man could inherit by 'doing some good thing' as though earning it. but we were the ones bought at a price: a price He paid

Calvin and his theology (not that he invented it, but he did popularize it)
make God responsible for everything:

Wars
Murders
Cancer
Abortion

etc
etc

Nothing can happen unless God predestined it.
This is why this theology has been discarded by most of Christianity.

Oh Fran is an emotional person.
In have known her for a long time and she does have emotions.
She reacts emotionally as we all do.
Positively and negatively.

But if ever we met I would love to spend time with her and share a meal with her.
Having got to know her and talk about life I know a bit about what is going on.
Given what I know she is a stalwart as we say over here, I won't divulge.

Infact she gave me reassurance when I thought I was not saved whilst deep in sin.
The fact that I was deep in sin but not lost faith in Jesus she reassured me I was saved.

Now compared with a few on here who believe that you can lose salvation through sin she is far removed from that.

Fran I hope you don't mind me saying the above.
But I know you, I love you as a sister and know what you are going through.
Even though we disagree with some theology.

Anyway to finish off.

God does not predestine sin.
He can't, if he does then he is the cause of sin.

We're do you live???? Just curious cause you said "over here"

Apparently given a few posts recently some say he won't find them because they have strayed too far and and some that the sheep is dead so won't be carried back.

Wow

We're do you live???? Just curious cause you said "over here"

Hmm very interesting indeed.
Never thought about it this way.

I would like to ask the question though.

Can satan enter a believer?
We know he can deceive a believer, gain a foothold but enter one?

I always use genuine faith as you know.

The reason being is that there are some on here who believe that we do not know what faith means and what it entails.

I made this point yesterday concerning belief.
I have friends who believe Jesus is an historical figure, therefore a belief of Jesus.
Yet it stops there. I even know a few who hope their good works will outweigh the bad ones, and then compare themselves against others.

Which is different from someone who believes in and upon Jesus for salvation, and that alone.

Now when we say that then we are accused of using that as an excuse to sin, sit back and do nothing and get into heaven.

Even though the term genuine faith is not used a faith that is genuine will bear fruit.

The field is the world.....FRAN....if yo cannot be honest with what is said and what Christ said himself, quit addressing me....I am sick to death of your complete dishonesty and stupid accusations like above!

how long would a good shepherd spend seeking out one lost sheep?