HEVOSMIES ASKED.....

But my question to you rehbein is: WHAT do you suggest we do? Just throw it all out, or go back to it?


This was regarding Paul's teachings about women, but it applies to pretty much ALL Denominational teachings as well in my opinion, including "creeds" and such.

I "searched" Scripture for any statement made by Christ concerning creeds but could find nothing. There was no evidence that Christ ever taught that we (the Church) needed creeds. As well, I could find no Scripture where Christ taught we should have Denominations, and that is important in my opinion, for it reveals that Christ truly did intend for us to be "one Church."

The closet Scripture I could find concerning creeds was 2 Timothy 3:16, 17 which states: 16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

If one does a "search" for Scriptures concerning creeds, this is the only one that is given. If there are others, I am not aware of them. This Scripture does not justify the various "creeds" that are alive and well in various Catholic and Protestant Churches in my opinion. Now, the idea that all Christians have a profession of faith, thus a creed is simply strawman at best. There is a huge difference in saying "I am a Christian" which is a profession of faith and reciting some predetermined creed created by man and not Christ. In fact, the greatest profession of faith ANY Christian can make is in how they live their lives.

Now, regarding Hevosmies question: In my opinion, the best way to resolve the greatest number of disputations within the Christian Church is if all Congregations would preach/teach the Gospel of Christ. The words written in red! In this way, Denominational ideologies would not clash, and disputations would not arise to cause divisions within the Church, and we would truly be so close to being the "one Church" spoken of in Scripture.

Ephesians 4:1)

(corrected Copy)

But my question to you rehbein is: WHAT do you suggest we do? Just throw it all out, or go back to it?


This was regarding Paul's teachings about women, but it applies to pretty much ALL Denominational teachings as well in my opinion, including "creeds" and such.

I "searched" Scripture for any statement made by Christ concerning creeds but could find nothing. There was no evidence that Christ ever taught that we (the Church) needed creeds. As well, I could find no Scripture where Christ taught we should have Denominations, and that is important in my opinion, for it reveals that Christ truly did intend for us to be "one Church."

The closet Scripture I could find concerning creeds was 2 Timothy 3:16, 17 which states: 16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

If one does a "search" for Scriptures concerning creeds, this is the only one that is given. If there are others, I am not aware of them. This Scripture does not justify the various "creeds" that are alive and well in various Catholic and Protestant Churches in my opinion. Now, the idea that all Christians have a profession of faith, thus a creed is simply strawman at best. There is a huge difference in saying "I am a Christian" which is a profession of faith and reciting some predetermined creed created by man and not Christ. In fact, the greatest profession of faith ANY Christian can make is in how they live their lives.

Remember this: Matthew 15:8) This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9) But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.


Now, regarding Hevosmies question: In my opinion, the best way to resolve the greatest number of disputations within the Christian Church is if all Congregations would preach/teach the Gospel of Christ. The words written in red! In this way, Denominational ideologies would not clash, and disputations would not arise to cause divisions within the Church, and we would truly be so close to being the "one Church" spoken of in Scripture.

Ephesians 4:4) There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;

MOM IM FAMOUS! LOOK!

IOW: Your suggestion is going to preach the words in Red. the words of Jesus.

I see what you did there, since Jesus doesnt mention those things..............

The words written in red? We need Paul's epistles to explain the gospel of Christ. None of the four gospels explain the cross. We can find most of the doctrine for the body of Christ in Paul's thirteen epistles.

Failure to rightly divide the word of truth is what leads to different "Christian" denominations.

Interesting. Well Paul needed to make the gospel understandable to gentiles who hadnt seen Jesus.
All of israel supposedly had the oppotunity to see and meet with Jesus during his ministry on earth and 40 days after his resurrection.

I dont know what the population was at the time. But he did go through all the towns of Israel, its just Judaea was the hardest one to reach but he spnt the most time there as was most poplulous.

Pauls many letters to the churches and ministers are just showing the practical outworking of faith, as the chuchrs grew, and I imagine he just had to deal with a lot of church disputes and problems including some loud women who wouldnt shut up.

Hevosmies you get the special treatment

You sure the Gospels do not explain the Cross? Seems to me the words of both God the Father and God the Son recorded in the Gospels explain perfectly the cross.

The words written in red simply identifies what Jesus Himself said.............the Epistles of the Apostles expand upon His teachings, BUT, His Gospel are the words written in red.

Failure to rightly divide Scripture did and does lead to the differing Denominations and disputations, and from where do these failures come from? From folks concentrating on what the Apostles said.

What does the Church need to serve God that isn't contained in the teachings of Christ?

I think the seven eyes of the Lord sent forth into all the earth represent His seven churches throughout the world.
Not exactly denominations,.....but different perspectives nonetheless.

Revelation 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

Zechariah 4:10 For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of the Lord, which run to and fro through the whole earth.

Can you posts some verses where the gospel of Christ is preached? The death, burial and resurrection for sins...thanks.

Paul's writings to the body of Christ is the words of Jesus Christ. Paul is not teaching his own doctrine. It was given to him directly from Jesus through an abundance of revelations. Why the revelations if something new hasn't been established?

What does literally seeing Jesus have to do with walking by faith (the unseen)? He said of his own temporal flesh it profits for nothing.

Are you saying it as that seen profited for everything?

2 Corinthians 4:18While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Walk by faith the eternal not seen or by sight after the temporal things seen?

I would think no man can serve two teaching masters ?.

Part of the very problem that is discussed in the OP, is the failure to put all scripture to use. It's here in this forum as well, people pick and choose what scriptures they want to follow and throw out all the rest. I say that if I had a pair of scissors and cut out the scriptures that are most people's talking points, and handed that to them and threw the rest away they would have a small hand full of verses and the bulk of the book would be in the trash can.
Creed's are at least an attempt to take scripture into context and establish a fundamental principal. Some of them kind of feeble attempts, others very well formulated.
I have no idea why so many Christians do this. They take a hard full of passages and build their entire ideology around them, even when they are refutable because the passages are taken out of context, and demonstrably so. Worse is when a caring individual comes along and uses scripture to point out the error, many just double down and attempt to build a fortified position out of their erroneous stance.
Use all the scriptures, establish them according to context and apply them thussly.

I would think the demonstration or shadow , the cross, the garden, and the Tomb explain the lamb of God who was slain for the sin of those he elected to salvation a finished work from the foundation of the world . Our rest is from the seventh after he finished all the work prepared for His bride the church.

Righteousness through faith, without the law.

I would offer one perfect law, combinding two as one making it a one complete work.

The best summation of the gospel in the NT is 1 Cor. 15. You can't lose this passage! It is vital to the NT and our beliefs!

"Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, and then to the Twelve. 6 After that, he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at the same time, most of whom are still living, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles, 8 and last of all he appeared to me also, as to one abnormally born.

9 For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them—yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. 11 Whether, then, it is I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed." 1 Cor. 15:1-11