Name It and Claim It

I'm sorry, my bad.

???

No worries at all. I appreciated your testimony.

Just because someone says the sinner's prayer, doesn't mean it's God's will to save them. You don't know if it is or isn't.
We already know God doesn't save everyone, even though it is His will, and Jesus also stated, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;"

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life, so long as it is the will of God.

Now try putting faith in that verse.
You can't, because you don't know what God's will is, and therefore you don't know what He's going to do, whether He's going to save the sap from his misery or not.
If you're going to pervert scripture of some by adding the will to God to it, then you should do the same with all the promises of God.
Otherwise, you are demonstrating your biased and perverted teachings against the doctrines you disagree with.
As I said earlier, if you don't know what God will do, because you don't know what His will is, then you CANNOT have ANY faith for Him to do anything for you. You will have no confidence in scripture or God for that matter.
It changes the certainty of every verse you apply that to, rendering any faith in the promises of God to a pile of double-minded, wishy-washy, slop.
If you add the will of God to a verse that says, "whatsoever YOU will", is to take the meaning and context in an entirely different direction than what is written.
What you and others are doing is corrupting the word of God, not making it the whole council of God.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

I was only trying to drive home a point.
I don't believe it's not God's will for all to come to repentance so they don't perish. I believe what is written, AS IT IS WRITTEN.
I understand God leaves out words and even phrases to hide some truths, but when it takes a promise in an entirely different direction, that to me is perverting or corrupting scripture and the truth.
What I was doing by adding the will of God to the verses like the one above, was to show how drastically it changes the meaning of the promise.
I don't get any replies when I do this because I think they see just how stupid it sounds. Yet many here on CC do it all the time to certain promises.
To many, it's okay for it to be God's will for everyone to come to repentance, but it is a horse of a different when it come to scripture that promises to give you whatsoever YOU WANT, WILL, OR DESIRE.
What should be foundational doctrines of the church, is treated as doctrines of devils.
Basic truths become lies, and the lies become truths.
Good is treated as evil, and evil as good, blessings as curses and curses as blessings.
Sickness use to be a curse, now it is a blessing of God.
Scripture is either ignored, perverted, twisted, or tainted some way to change the meaning.
A corrupt tree can only produce corrupt fruit.
I see the same thing going on with scripture as I do in the political world.
Lies and deception to keep the people under their influence.
So let's look at the verse again, and another one, only with the will of God added to it, and tell me if it changes the meaning.

2Pe 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance, if it be the will of God.

Well, did it change the meaning any?
Does it even make any sense?
Did it remain the truth after adding the will of God to it?
Now let's look at other verses with the same thing added to the end.

Mar 11:23 For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith, if it be the will of God.
Mar 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them, if it be the will of God.

Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him, if it be the will of God.

I could go on and on with this.
You don't need to ADD the will of God to any of the above verses, because the will of God or the conditions of God are already written.
Point being, if it doesn't make sense adding the will of God to scripture concerning salvation and other pet doctrines of the denominational churches, since it changes the meaning of the promises, turns it into a lie, corrupts, twists, and perverts it, why then in God's name do they do it to other promises?
To me, this profanes the word of God and that is not only blasphemous, but an abomination to God.

I love those who desire to reach out and see God move in peoples lives.
The discernment between God has laid on my heart to see this fulfilled, and everyone just needs to say
the words and it will come into existence, is a vast gulf.

Why would God allow illness in the believer, if faith and a statement of healing would just remove it?
Submission is a hard word. It has often become, illness is the enemy fighting us to cause doubt.

One leader who believed in claiming healing, had cancer, believed God had given him healing, and walked
in this belief, yet he died a week or so later. Why was death seen as a defeat, rather than the closing of one
part of the story and the beginning of eternity with Him?

Who are we serving? Our own perception of blessing and life, or the Lord and His will in our lives?
What testimony is it when believers react like death is a curse, rather than the inheritance of Adams fall, and
the doorway to heaven. It suggests to me, some in their hearts consider what they are in the world of greater
value than being with the Lord of All.

Well the thing is,since they are BLINDLY AGAINST WOF PREACHERS,they are oblivious that they are throwing out verses from the bible along with them.

IOW, say I start 50 threads against watchtower,and since watchtower uses a bible,i end up hating on witnessing of any kind.
We all can see this forum is 99% hateful to wof.

We all can see faith is a bad thing.
Oh wait,its getting on me too

You got it backwards.
We are to believe the word,and let the testimony of others be judged by the word.
You are saying the word is hit and miss because someone appeared to miss the mark.
" i heard this preacher believed for healing and ....so God never heals"
No faith.
Actually looking for avenues to weaken faith.

Not good

Sickness is a cursed foul thing.

Here is a good example of how you guys think of God and sickness
"If a son asks for bread will a father put a snake in his hand? Of course! God puts curses on his children to help them.then when they ask Him to remove it He says "how dare you tamper with my will,you will wither,agonize and die a horrible death. Now get it straight,curses are my will and i never remove them!!!"

Wow,how goofy.

How about healing is his will????
How about looking it up instead of the 3 faith destroyers from paul that all of you can quote.
And note that none of you has diminished faith for BELIEVING God doesn't heal.
I refuse to sit up to that table

Faith for healing hinges on God's promises and the authority of the believer.

His will?

Of course it is his will.
Jesus went about and healed all.
He put NO SICKNESS on anyone.
Why didnt he leave them sick?
Show me where he left any sick.

I think the problem there was that maybe Paul didnt TITHE enough!

CUT THAT CHECK COUSIN'!

I call them the heaven savings and loan credit unioners, They deposit their "seed" "tithes" and offerings into their heaven account where in accrues interest, and then they can when the interest is enough buy a (what ever luxury or felt need they want) just fill in the blank and it's yours. God himself is the insurer of the interest gain 30, 60, even 100 fold. This is what they worship, a God of luxury, like Baccus.
They are epicurean in nature rather than Christian.
The 9th chapter of the 2nd book of Corinthians is true. God does supply as it is said, seed for the sower and bread for food. But there is also more scripture that must be considered as well, like all the stuff Paul said about contentment, and warned about seeking after riches in his letters to Timothy.
So what is say is be thankful for what you have, give as you can, and if you have a need or even a want tell it to God. He will take care of you needs for sure and some times when it pleases him and he knows it will produce thanksgiving and righteousness in you he will give us some of the things we want. However if it is going to produce pride, haughtiness, greed, or any other type of sin in you, he will not give it to you.
And on one more note, you can't try to shoe horn God into your will. If you plan to do something and you decide to shoe horn God into it so that he insures the success of it but it's not what he wants for you, yeah I know this one up close and personal. It ain't gonna work.

Very interesting posts.
I believe in healing, just not name it and claim it.
Philippians 2:25-30;
Epaphroditus was sick and almost died.
He lived to Glorify God.
John 11:1;
Lazarus died.
Jesus brought him back to life to Glorify God.
Trophimus was left behind sick in 2 Timothy 4:20;.

I've known people who were sick to die but God brought them through.
And God was Glorified for it.
My wife was in pain from 2 broken knee caps.
After 15 years of pain, she was healed completely at the altar.
She Glorifies his name everyday to everyone.

I don't believe anything here is name it and claim it.
Oh, you may be able to alter Scripture and make these fit into your belief but God allows life and death and suffering for his Glory.

Name it and claim it is like the "Brother Love traveling salvation show..."

"FollowHisSteps,
One leader who believed in claiming healing, had cancer, believed God had given him healing, and walked
in this belief, yet he died a week or so later. Why was death seen as a defeat, rather than the closing of one
part of the story and the beginning of eternity with Him?

I heard of another guy who had the same thing, did the same thing, and got his healing, then died naturally years later, having lived a full life.
So now that we have two conflicting accounts concerning healing and God's will, what is the truth, or more importantly, WHAT IS WRITTEN?
The fact is, BEFORE someone dies of a wasting disease, they are greatly afflicted, suffering extreme pains, and after they die, leave behind a huge financial burden to their loved ones.
There is a reason why chemical and biological weapons have been banned world wide, and it isn't because it paints this pretty rosy picture of people dying quietly and ever so peacefully, either.
They die a horrible and gruesome death.
And so it is with the curse of sicknesses and diseases. They too die a horrible and gruesome death.

Who are we serving? Our own perception of blessing and life, or the Lord and His will in our lives?
What testimony is it when believers react like death is a curse, rather than the inheritance of Adams fall, and
the doorway to heaven. It suggests to me, some in their hearts consider what they are in the world of greater
value than being with the Lord of All.

Anyone who suggests sicknesses and diseases is a blessing of God and the will of God, for people of God to suffer before they die, and fails to perceive it as a curse that steals, kills, and destroys precious lives to death, needs to have their heart examined... and their head too.
You make living a defeated life before the devil destroys it, sound ever so peaceful and wonderful, when in reality, it is ever so demonic, hateful, and so not God's will for His people.
"Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven."
What do you think it's going to be like in heaven? Pain and suffering? I thought that's what hell was for?
You are not serving God but the devil, when you discourage people from believing in God and His word, telling them to just accept it, suffer and die.
Death is indeed a curse. It was the first curse God put on Adam and Eve and it is the last enemy of God who will subdue the thing and put it under his feet.
Your eyes and faith are in the natural taking its course, rather than in God to do what He said He would do in His word.
One reason why so many people fail to believe in Jesus to heal them, is because they have people like you to discourage them.

Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And [if it be the will of God, then] the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, [and if it be the will of God, then] they shall be forgiven him.

Well, now we know what the will of God is when they die of a sickness. They all go to hell, because they were not forgiven of their sins either.
This is what perverting scripture looks like, and this sir, is what you are doing, along with many other here on CC.
You should stop propagating lies concerning the will of God and believe the real gospel of Jesus Christ that is written.

Gods love came to deliver us from sin and death not illness and suffering.
The whole point of love is it lives despite the cost and problems along the way.

There is a whole industry dedicated to making people believe they should trust God to heal
them and not take medicine which will cure or keep them healthy. These people die, literally
as a result.

And this is the point. We need to be wise to what solves problems and issues and bring all
to the Lord for His blessing.

My church has prayed for many who are sick, who have died within a short period.
Your answer is they did not have enough faith. The problem is across the whole church a similar
pattern emerges. Most simply die. So either these are not faithful believers or the idea that God
desires to heal all is false.

The biggest failure people have is in seeing we now live in a world where most will live till they
reach 70 years old. Never before in history has this happened.

Yet with such a blessing, this is not good enough. And this is the problem. We want eternity and
no problems or suffering here now on earth, and to not believe this is to be an unbeliever and evil.

Spoilt children always want more of the things they already have too much of.

I noticed you only could only find examples in scripture for a lack of healing, but failed to write the promises that say contrary.
One thing you and many others are saying in a round about way is, that God is a respecter of persons. That he favors a chosen few by healing them, and not the many.
Does that line up with scripture?
So what do you tell those who both named and claimed their healing and got it, like me?
And when your wife got her healing at the alter, did they just ask or did someone do what Peter did with the man at the gate Beautiful, by naming and claiming the persons healing?
Did anyone command her healing in the name of Jesus, or did they say, "if it be your will Father, would you heal so and so's knees please?"
Those who don't believe the scriptures concerning naming and claiming things is because they always always always have their eyes on the natural, instead of the promises of God, which is part of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
And if anyone alters and perverts scripture, it's the doubter.
The fact that you had only a few that failed to get their healing in the early church's history, only demonstrates how bad it has gotten over the centuries. Now we have million who fail to receive, in part because of their willful ignorance, by rejecting the truth.
Tell me if you can, which scripture below is true?

Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And [if it be the will of God, then] the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Jas 5:14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
Jas 5:15 And [if it be the will of God, then] the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, [and if it be the will of God, then] they shall be forgiven him.

In response to this thread, I will just post this video. I think no more needs to be said.

Yes indeedy Petey!
Nothing better then these WOF preachers, is there?
Telling the people everything they wanna hear in their "Mouth full of well pleasin', as they pick the peoples pockets, shaking their hands, saying "Much Obliged!" "Much Obliged!"

2 Timothy 4
I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Acts 20
28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Spirit hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.
32 And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.
33 I have coveted NO man's silver, or gold, or apparel.

THIS? Is HOW the spirit of anit-christ WORKS!