Can I change reality with my words?

Thanks for the thumbs up. What do you mean by it's "fruit is natural"?

Natural fruit but now what is given is fruit of the Spirit. The tree of life within. The tree cut down IMO by Holy Spirit is the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

Did you ever read the book, The Two Trees in the Garden?

Me too.
The anointing is costly.

I belive the starting place is hunger.
Elisha was determined and hungry.
The satisfied have no need.

Dear Kelby, I have assurance, bcause the word says it. Who believes has Eternal life.
I cant find written in the scripture: who believes never will be sick again.

I am Working in Hospital and i find there People which have nothing to do with God, Coming in age of 80 First Time in Hospital, because of a minor Operation. They are mental and physical fit.
According some stating here they are Living a blessed God pleasant life. I know missionaries and Good believers which suffering of cancer for long Time, serving still God, and remain sick.
According some stating here,their Faith is to small, ore they so not pray ernestly .

And as I said, I find no teaching in the New Testament which supportes that believers Never become sick during their life.

If we as Gods Children became not already life through our Adoption in Gods Family.? Are we Not rich?
As christian i have life, before i was death.

Hmmmm. Good stuff.
I now see the wedding thingy differently.
Could be they even kinda were toying around with the " what have i to do with you"
I never looked at it that way.

Ok, i would have possibly taken that position if it were me and no healing was forthcoming.
Those illnesses are devastating.

But remember,that same scenario existed during Jesus's earthly ministry.
That hopeless resolve to make the best of a very bad hand dealt to them.
Enter the King.
Game changer.
But only for those he came across or THAT CAME TO HIM.
His heart,ministry,and mission was revealed.

"For this reason was the son of God manifest.....TO DESTROY THE WORKS OF THE DEVIL"

Sickness is a work of the devil.
It must be destroyed.
We are handed the baton.
Run with it

7seas,

I actually think that is kind of the point. Perhaps faith in one area does not equal faith in all areas. I think WOF'ers are trying ( perhaps ineffectively) to encourage people to grow in faith in more areas than just basic belief.

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

No I haven't read that book. However, I would agree that we have Life (Holy Spirit) within and that we are fed by the Root. But we also have another nature that we are at war with and doesn't leave us until we go home to be with the Father, or until we receive our new bodies. Natural fruit in my understanding would be the initial fruit that was intended to be given by Israel, God's chosen people. However, I have to ask myself are we now not feed by the same Root? Does that make our fruit any less natural as we are now grafted in?

In respect to Adam and Eve I believe the substance of that fruit (sin) continues to move within us. Consider a child when it is born, we can see that it has an umbilical chord attached to it's mother from which it is fed and receives blood and nutrition. Thus, we are all born in sin from one generation to the next. However, we now receive an infusion of blood that is pure and Holy, which begins the cleansing process within us. That blood comes from Christ. Yet the sinful nature remains until the final step is made fully into perfection (who is Christ), because in Christ no sin can remain. Moreover, when the bride has been taken by the Bridegroom, a union will be made where we become fully one in body with Jesus as our head.

Apparently it is both possible and marvelous ( but not in a good way) for otherwise faithful people to exhibit periods of insufficient faith (Matt. 17:19,20) or to operate with NO faith (Mark 4:40).

Thankfully, we are also given instructions how to overcome the problems (Matt:17:21 & Romans 10:17 among others).

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

BTW, I think it's a common theme throughout the bible that confusion, frustration and resentment tend to follow if we get most of it right but don't achieve the results we were after (because of some piece that was missing).

Consider Cain in the story of Cain and Able....as well as the bewilderment of the children of Israel & Joshua at their defeat at Ai...until the Lord explained that they were wrong in a small but crucial element. (Joshua 7:1-11)

I think I see that kind of down-castedness in the postings of some here who were unable to receive what they prayed for....and were then perhaps belittled by those trying to "help".

Love in Jesus,
Kelby

The works of the devil are already destroyed. Ore do you think you have to help our Lord to do it?
Sickness will remain in this World Till the end of it. And you und nobody else will Change this.
Sickness ( und nobody likes to be sick) will be in the life of unbelievers as in the life of believers.

Your are giving Empty promisses und close your Eyes in Front of the reality. Your are defending a big lie. And who is the father of lie?

kelby you are missing what I said I think, because your response does not reflect on my post

I mentioned faith the size of a mustard seed....not no faith....you asked a specific question and I answered yet

you asked if I thought the faith of the person plays no part and I told you that I do NOT think at all. I told you that would not be biblical

I'll go farther...the Bible tells us we should approach God with faith...without wavering...or we should not expect at all...so where is the faith there? IN the same place it always is...IN GOD...and that entails a knowledge of God from scripture and quite possibly with personal experience...see Lamentations for instance...Gods mercies never fail

it seems you either misunderstood or you think I do...either way, faith is always IN God. IN His character and not in our ability to work ourselves up with some standard of enough faith or not enough faith...even with the verses you noted, the object of faith is God. Jesus is not talking about how much faith but rather who the faith is in

do we know God? if we have Christ we also have God

get most of 'it' right?

I'll stop there and just say we are not understanding the same things. I'm not trying to 'get things or some thing, 'right'


unable to receive what they prayed for?

do you and have you always received all you prayed for? if you prayed for a sick person right now would they be healed?

and don't say it would depend on their faith because it would actually depend on yours IMO if you are praying...otherwise look for the elders or let them pray themself

interesting about the mustard seed

yet, the seed itself is described as the faith and not the roots of the tree

however, I could see faith growing in God after it began as the seed...and actually that's a decent comparison I think

true that even when we are faithless God is still faithful..but this means He is true to us even when we let Him down

as far as weak faith, I have had despondent faith and yet had kind of a miracle answer with two parts exactly as I prayed...like God was showing me He heard my pitiful little desperate prayer and even had kind of sense of humor about how I worded it

I do believe in the spiritual realm but it is all around us...not somewhere we have to 'reach'...not sure if you meant it that way or meant penetrate it? as far as that goes, that realm goes both ways. God can and does 'visit' us sometimes even when we have not even prayed...I have experienced that a good number of times

I have faith in God and not faith in my faith.

correcting the way this sounds

I don't mean it to say you do not have faith in God

sorry it if sounds that way

Reach is what I call battling the giants of our own thinking. The evil spirits are in the 2nd realm, so I have been taught. Sometimes we have to war with the Word. Praying in the Spirit too.

I think it was Lester Sumrall who used the phrase have faith in your faith. Since he was so powerful in faith, I don't criticize it.

No I haven't read that book.

There are actually two books with that title. One by Rick Joyner, the other by Lynn Hiles. Hiles has a revelation of Jesus like no other. But, Ricks works are great too.

However, I would agree that we have Life (Holy Spirit) within and that we are fed by the Root. But we also have another nature that we are at war with and doesn't leave us until we go home to be with the Father, or until we receive our new bodies.

I don't see that in scripture about having another nature. That's to be reckoned dead isn't it? And its our mind that needs renewed to truth.

Natural fruit in my understanding would be the initial fruit that was intended to be given by Israel, God's chosen people. However, I have to ask myself are we now not feed by the same Root? Does that make our fruit any less natural as we are now grafted in?

We (none of us, Jew included) was ever Spirit until Jesus rose again and we believe. Now we are Spiritual beings and produce fruit and works of the Spirit. Not flesh. Agree or not?

In respect to Adam and Eve I believe the substance of that fruit (sin) continues to move within us. Consider a child when it is born, we can see that it has an umbilical chord attached to it's mother from which it is fed and receives blood and nutrition. Thus, we are all born in sin from one generation to the next. However, we now receive an infusion of blood that is pure and Holy, which begins the cleansing process within us. That blood comes from Christ. Yet the sinful nature remains until the final step is made fully into perfection (who is Christ), because in Christ no sin can remain. Moreover, when the bride has been taken by the Bridegroom, a union will be made where we become fully one in body with Jesus as our head.

I had that picture of an umbililical cord from my belly to the heavens a long time ago, so I agree with your words infusion of blood. But, the sin nature? Temptation from thoughts? We aren't perfect until the final step that's true, but temptations are less in power as we grow in grace. Again, agree or not?

Sevenseas

Forgot this. The truth about the mustard seed was told to me from a minister who moved in the miraculous. The point of the seed as he said was that the bush or plant is impossible to stamp out because the roots go so far down deep. In my verifying, I googled it. lol

I don't see that in scripture about having another nature. That's to be reckoned dead isn't it? And its our mind that needs renewed to truth.

"For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin. (Romans 7:14-25)

The NIV refers to this as the "sinful nature". Yes that is to be reckoned dead. However, the life given to us by Christ makes us aware that our flesh still wars with the Spirit. If this were not true then why would we continue to confess our sins to one another (James 5:16) after we are saved. The battle with temptation is won or lost based upon how fully we are surrendered to the control of the Holy Spirit (Galatians 5:16-17). The Holy Spirit, will disciplined and convicted us if we begin to go astray. So what in us causes us to do what we don't want to do?

We (none of us, Jew included) was ever Spirit until Jesus rose again and we believe. Now we are Spiritual beings and produce fruit and works of the Spirit. Not flesh. Agree or not?

Agree - we are to produce fruit and do the work of the Spirit in accordance with God's good and perfect will, which will be different for each of us.

Not certain what you mean by "was ever Spirit" the same Holy Spirit that was in the Old Testament is the same Holy Spirit that is the new, the only difference is that:

The Spirit “came upon” Old Testament people such as Joshua (Numbers 27:18), Samson (Judges 14:6), Saul (1 Samuel 10:10), and David (1 Samuel 16:12-13). Moreover, the Spirit would not always remain with these individuals, but came upon them to perform certain tasks. Even David cried out to God not to take back His Holy Spirit (Psalms 51:11). Whereas, in the New Testament we are taught that the believer receives the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 3:16-17; 16:19-20). Paul refers to this as the seal or permanent dwelling of the Holy Spirit, which guarantees our inheritance (Ephesians 1:13-14).

I had that picture of an umbililical cord from my belly to the heavens a long time ago, so I agree with your words infusion of blood. But, the sin nature? Temptation from thoughts? We aren't perfect until the final step that's true, but temptations are less in power as we grow in grace. Again, agree or not?

Agree - We will growing stronger in Christ by the washing of His word (Ephesian 5:26). Draw near to God and He will draw near to you (James 4:8); and where sin abounded, grace abounded much more (Romans 5:20).