Unitarians and Islam

Both Trinity and Oneness are nothing more than humanistic attempts to make sense of certain verses in the bible. They both fall short; God is God, He is not three units as majority of Christians see or a single unit as Islam and Jews see. God is an authority and that authority is a mystery and the mysteriousness is because man (believers) are partakers in the authority of God and that God created everything through the human heart- man lost it temporarily through Adam.

This was God's concern then:

Gen 3:22Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil. And now, lest he reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever...”

Well, that tree of life is Jesus and now we have free access to Jesus, means we are partakers in the divine nature.

All of the historic creeds are Trinitarian, beginning with the Apostles Creed. But here is the one in question, the Nicene Creed.


~Deut

The Church started to split in 431 ce over was Mary the mother of God. While both agree she was the mother of Jesus the Orthodox made the recognition that Jesus the man and Jesus the Lord can be separated. Let me interject that men can be killed and Jesus the man was. God cannot be killed and Jesus the lord was not. The Orthodox never accepted Peter as it's founder or 'Pope' or followed a Pope they only recognized Jesus. Most Protestants I've met admired Paul Over Peter because his letters were so much more prolific than Peters. Most I know also believe that Jesus was God before he was born so Mary could be the Mother biologically of Jesus the man but she could not be the mother of God because God existed before she was born.

Now we would begin to enter the political realm and Popes becoming surrogate Caesars and trying to rule the world and force Catholicism down everyone throat or put them to the sword. Rebels like Martin Luther brought Christianity back to a more reasonable level about the time the Borgias took the Roman Church off the rails. He knew the Bible. The printing press had just been invented and the first books ever printed were Bibles.

Some amazing answers here, thank you.

Not units but Persons, and not as Christians see it but as God sees it:

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (Matthew 28:19)

Because of their reverence for God, and His commandment to not take His name in vain, Jews have gone to the extreme by referring to God as *Ha Shem* (the Name) rather than Yahweh or God. So we have "the Name" above, which can only refer to God, since Jesus says (with all divine authority in Heaven and on earth) that the Name (singular) is really a reference to the triune Godhead -- the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. This is also reflected in the Hebrew word for God -- Elohim -- which is uni-plural, indicating three in one.

There is absolutely no question that this is a genuine verse of Scripture, and a genuine declaration of Christ. So this verse establishes both the deity of Christ and the Trinity. The Creeds of Christendom have some tried to develop these doctrines in great detail.

As to the God of Islam -- Allah -- who has presumably given the Quran to Muslims through Gabriel, he not only denies the Trinity, but attacks the Trinity and the Deity of Christ. Mohammad was quite familiar with Christian teachings.

Yet the disciples went ahead and baptized in the name of Jesus.
Can we then conclude that the name (authority) of the Father and of the son and of the Holy spirit is the same as the name (Authority) of Jesus?

True, the name is just one and is that of Jesus, yet you want to separate the Father and the son and the Holy spirit- this is where the confusion arises and the doctrine of trinity also. The reason i said, God is not a single unit or three units even if you want to call them persons.

What do you mean by :"god created everything through the human heart".

I believe most Islam misinterpreted the oneness of God.

Islam believe god is tawhid or unifie

one·ness
/ˈwənəs/Submit
noun
1.
the fact or state of being unified or whole, though comprised of two or more parts.
"the oneness of man and nature"
2.
the fact or state of being one in number.
"belief in the oneness of God"



Tawhid, also spelled Tauhid, Arabic Tawḥīd, (“making one,” “asserting oneness”), in Islām, the oneness of God, in the sense that he is one and there is no god but he,

So tawhid can be three in one

Those who reject the trinity are incorrect.. But i will deal with your Bible quote::

Jesus never actually denied He was God when He said this to the man who called Him Good.. Jesus knew the thoughts of the man and at that stage no human being knew exactly Who Jesus was.. The Man thought Jesus was just a man like Himself.. The man had got into the bad habit of calling other people good.. Jesus was correcting that..

Lets go through the scripture in question because it is actually rich with reason why no man can justify their eternal position with God in eternity, Because with men it is impossible, but with God ( Jesus) all things are possible..

Matthew 19: KJV
16 "¶ And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

Note how the guy had a works salvation mindset.. What Good thing shall "I DO" to have eternal life.. We Christians believe that it is the good thing that Jesus did which wins for us eternal life, we cannot attain the perfection needed to win for ourselves eternal life.. The scripture continues::

{17} And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

This is where Jesus starts the process of showing the man he cannot do anything to justify his own place in eternity with God::

{18} He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, {19} Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. {20} The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

Now of course Jesus knew that the man would have broken at lest in his thoughts one or more of the Laws so Jesus then revealed that perfection was needed for a man to justify his own position in eternity with God.. God knew the man so all Jesus had to do was to tell the man to do something He knew the man would not do::

{21} Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. {22} But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

Note also the very important thing Jesus said was necessary to be perfect.. Come and follow me Become a follower of Jesus.. Now the disciples where watching all this and the message caused them to be troubled thinking that no one would be saved:::

{23} ¶ Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven. {24} And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. {25} When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved? {26} But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."

Note how Jesus Answered them, hinting at the Way that men could be saved.. How it was impossible for men but it was possible for God to save men..

Some people are suspicious of other people.. They may have had bad experiences in the past..

As the saying goes ""one bit twice shy..""

But anyway if you are genuine in your questioning and you do not want to deal with a particular responder you can always make use of the ignore feature included on this forum..

First, I am glad you are visiting our website. But sadly, you have gone to minority cults, with the Unitarians and Christadelphians. I went to the Unitarian church with my parents when I was a teen. There was literally no god at all to be found. Lots of philosphy and humanism, though!

Christadelphians are so obscure, I wonder why you bother? I knew a Christadelphian in another website. He literally would post anti Jesus and anti-Trinity things all day and night. No matter what he posted and was rebuked, he would not listen to Scripture. Really not a good possibility for learning anything about Christianity.

Next, as far as Islam is concerned, there is a huge basic doctrinal issue between Christianity and Islam. Islam believes in a God who is ONLY transcendental. That means he is above us all. God is not approachable, he does not answer prayer, and he certainly never begot Jesus, before the beginning of time. Christians do agree that God is transcendent. God is sovereign, he created everything, and he maintains creation, and is more powerful than we could ever imagine. I was in a mosque one time, and our professor asked the Iman, whether Allah could make part of himself a man, and come to earth. The Iman replied that God could, but he wouldn't. There is no need for God to come to earth as a man. Which means Muslims really have no channel to God. Plus, they have no idea of knowing if they are saved. Allah is capricious, in that he does not have to do anything according to his own rules. So, generally the afterlife with Muslims starts with a weigh scale, and having good deeds on one side, and bad deeds and thoughts on the other side. If the bad receivers the most weight, then you are condemned. That is why so many young Musim men become Jihadist. Because dying as martyr outweighs all other bad deeds. So, the temptation to suicide bomb, etc, is an attempt to please an unpleasable God.

But God is also loving. In fact, the Bible says, "God is love" (1 John 4;8, 16) A transcendent God has no real way of showing his love. He is too far beyond what we can comprehend. But God is also immanent, or with us. Emmanuel, Jesus' title, means "God with us.' Jesus came to earth as a man, to make us the way to be saved by his death on the cross and his resurrection. Jesus certainly performed miracles on earth, and helped people. But, he did some of those things, to prove he was the prophesied Messiah.

The Trinity is a more difficult topic for some people. The word is not in the Bible, but the concept is there from Genesis to Revelation. The Trinity is one in being. Greek calls this ousia. The members of the Trinity have different functions, but they share the same being.

The Father fulfills the primary role in the act of creation. The Father is the ultimate, direct agent in the creative act. The world exists by the will of the Father. The Father is the goal of telos (Greek) of all things. The Father's function as the ground of creation is an overflow of his function as the ground of Trinitarian life. The primary movement in the Trinity is the Father's eternal generation of the Son which flows from the love of the Father for the Son. The act of creation was temporal, but the intratrintarian movement of generation is internal.

The Son's role is that of being the principle of creation. Further, as the incarnate Son, Jesus is the revelation of the eternal response of the Son to the Father within the divine reality. Throughout all eternity the Son whom the Father generates, responds to the Father in humble dependence and by reciprocating the Father's love. Just as the Son humbly acknowledges the Father as the source of his life, (John. 5:26) so all creatures are to look humbly to God as the fountain of their life. Creation models itself after the pattern of the Son who is the one is whom "All things hold together." (Col 1:17)

Third, the Holy Spirit, the third person hypostasis of God (or person, as the Latin translates it from Greek) is the divine power active in creation. The function of the Spirit is an outworking of his role in the eternal trinitarian relationship. The dynamic that binds the Father and Son - the power of their relationship - is the Holy Spirit. In this sense, the Spirit is likewise the essence of God, namely, love. In other words, the Spirit is the personal power of God -the dynamic of love between the Father and Son - by means of which all tings exist.

But always remember, besides the three, they are one, as the Shema in Deut. 6 says. In fact, this points to a relational God. A relational God cannot remain in isolation. If we inquired as to the being or attributes of God, we are actually asking about the relationships within the one God and also about the triune God in relation with us. The doctrine of the Trinity declares that God is relational, and that the One, true God is a social Trinity - Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The divine reality is eternally relational even apart from the world, in that the three relational persons comprise the one God. But not only is the immanent Trinity relational, the triune God enters into relationship with this world he created.

My suggestion to the OP would be to read more about who God is. Isalm, Mormons, Unitarians and Muslims all miss the fullness of a triune God. But rather than read some whacked out websites or watching some ravings on a YouTube video, please read some theological books on the topic. I can give you some titles. It is best to learn about God and the Trinity by reading people who believe in the subject. Then, when you fully understand, go back and read some of these anti-divinity and anti-the deity of Christ websites/books, and see how simplistic and unreasonable they are.

As for you and your Buddhism, I would like to invite you to read the New Testament, which covers the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I have no doubt, you will find God. He calls us when we have heard the gospel, and elects us for salvation. Buddhism is a very dead end religion, with all its karmic births, deaths and rebirths. And having to hang out in the Bardo for years. Buddhism is a "works" religion. All the good deeds, the compassion, comes out of a place of wanting more than just sitting around waiting to be reincarnated. It is about earning your salvation. My experience before Jesus saved me, is that I knew I could never do enough good to make up for my bad deeds. Jesus promises us eternal life when we believe in him. So, although theology can be quite complex, the act of salvation is simple. God calls us, we hear the gospel, and God saves us.

"Now I want to make clear for you, brothers and sisters, the gospel that I preached to you, that you received and on which you stand, 2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold firmly to the message I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. 3 For I passed on to you as of first importance what I also received—that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, 4 and that he was buried, and that he was raised on the third day according to the scriptures, 5 and that he appeared to Cephas, then to the twelve. 6 Then he appeared to more than five hundred of the brothers and sisters at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. 7 Then he appeared to James, then to all the apostles." 1 Cor. 15:1-6


Christ has paid the price by dying on the cross for our sins. He was the perfect sacrifice for sins. And when we are saved, we live for him and follow him. It isn't hard, because the Holy Spirit leads and guides us. I knew 2 Buddhists well. Both became more and more frustrated after being a Buddhist for more than 40 years. Neither changed, or was transformed by meditation. One got more and more bitter, the other trashed her own life. Jesus not only saves, but he transforms. Praying you will find out more about Christ, and that God will save you.

Gen 2:
4This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made them.

5Now no shrub of the field had yet appeared on the earth, nor had any plant of the field sprouted; for the LORD God had not yet sent rain upon the earth, and there was no man to cultivate the ground. 6But springsa welled up from the earth and watered the whole surface of the ground.

7Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed the breath of life into his nostrils, and the man became a living being.

This simply means that everything was created but did not actualize until man was created. It has also been hinted elsewhere how God created from 'deep waters' and the heart of a man has been described as 'deep waters'. So, in essence, the whole universe exists within the conscious mind of man.

It has also been hinted that the whole universes awaits mans salvation for its salvation too:

Rom 8:18I consider that our present sufferings are not comparable to the glory that will be revealed in us. 19The creation waits in eager expectation for the revelation of the sons of God. 20For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but because of the One who subjected it, in hope 21that the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.

Ok brother, in other word, God love a man and create everything for a man. He create a fruit and vegetable for a man. He send His son to die for a man salvation.

Yes, that and more and He says He loved us from before the foundations of the world.

A friendly heart dosn't mean I agree with much. In this case that I am sympathetic to your observations. I think the RCC went off track well before 800 ce.

No! He created the Garden of Eden before he created Adam. I think he placed Adam there to take care of it and gave Adam permission to eat what he wanted. Sort of like do not muzzle the Ox. Adam blew it and his and Eves' sins needed atonement...

I think the movement lost its way when it moved to Rome and became imperialized.