5 Signs Your Church is Going Progressive

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crossnote

crossnote

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Nov 24, 2012
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#1
preston39

preston39

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Dec 18, 2017
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So true.
This is what has happened since the 1960's and is gaining speed.
Christians, as defined by scriptures,......be ware.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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Jul 18, 2017
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As long as we are clear that *progressive* really means *regressive*.
 
Dino246

Dino246

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Jun 30, 2015
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Nehemiah6 said:
As long as we are clear that *progressive* really means *regressive*.
Click to expand...
Just another term that gets its meaning completely botched. It's a bit like calling good evil and evil good.
 
Deuteronomy

Deuteronomy

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#5
Jun 11, 2018
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#5
preston39 said:
So true.
This is what has happened since the 1960's and is gaining speed.
Christians, as defined by scriptures,......be ware.
Click to expand...
Actually, in some denominations (like my former denomination, the PCUSA, formerly the United Presbyterian Church), the changes began a couple of decades before I was born. In my former denomination's particular case, it all started with the denial of Biblical inerrancy and infallibility, and the ousting of the Westminster Standards :(

~Deut
 
crossnote

crossnote

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#6
Nov 24, 2012
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Deuteronomy said:
Actually, in some denominations (like my former denomination, the PCUSA, formerly the United Presbyterian Church), the changes began a couple of decades before I was born. In my former denomination's particular case, it all started with the denial of Biblical inerrancy and infallibility, and the ousting of the Westminster Standards :(

~Deut
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I believe that is a large root of the problem and it seems to seep down from the seminaries into the pulpits.
 
Deuteronomy

Deuteronomy

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#7
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crossnote said:
1. There is a lowered view of the Bible
2. Feelings are emphasized over facts
3. Essential Christian doctrines are open for re-interpretation
4. Historic terms are re-defined
5. The heart of the gospel message shifts from sin and redemption to social justice

(for further explanation... https://www.alisachilders.com/blog/...ht-be-heading-toward-progressive-christianity )
Click to expand...
I think you could also add this to the list of signs that a church has gone progressive, perhaps under the banner of your point #3 above:

a. Referring to God as both Father and Mother (or simply as Mother)
b. Referring to the Holy Spirit as feminine and/or as Mother
c. The ordination of those claiming to be practicing homosexuals as pastors and priests
d. Homosexual marriage
e. Premarital (and sometimes even extra-marital) heterosexual sex is not considered to be sinful
f. Female pastors & elders
g. Biblical church discipline is no longer practiced
h. Outside of murder, rape and/or theft, the only thing that is truly considered sinful is a lack of tolerance for all of the other sins/sinful lifestyles that the Bible condemns and declares to be sinful​

~Deut
 
crossnote

crossnote

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#8
Nov 24, 2012
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Deuteronomy said:
I think you could also add this to the list of signs that a church has gone progressive, perhaps under the banner of your point #3 above:

a. Referring to God as both Father and Mother (or simply as Mother)​
b. Referring to the Holy Spirit as feminine and/or as Mother​
c. The ordination of those claiming to be practicing homosexuals as pastors and priests​
d. Homosexual marriage​
e. Premarital (and sometimes even extra-marital) heterosexual sex is not considered to be sinful​
f. Female pastors & elders​
g. Biblical church discipline is no longer practiced​
h. Outside of murder, rape and/or theft, the only thing that is truly considered sinful is a lack of tolerance for all of the other sins/sinful lifestyles that the Bible condemns and declares to be sinful​

~Deut
Click to expand...
Yes, I think Donovan must have had an inside tip back in the '60's when he sang "must be the season of the witch', as nearly every idea that opposed God's Word came flying out of the closet.
 
Chester

Chester

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#9
May 23, 2016
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crossnote said:
1. There is a lowered view of the Bible
2. Feelings are emphasized over facts
3. Essential Christian doctrines are open for re-interpretation
4. Historic terms are re-defined
5. The heart of the gospel message shifts from sin and redemption to social justice

(for further explanation... https://www.alisachilders.com/blog/...ht-be-heading-toward-progressive-christianity )
Click to expand...
Well - said!

On number 5 social issues and justice turn into political and class prejudices and views that isolate the church from the reality of real Christian living.

Putting it all together the shift goes from a vibrant, real, daily walk with Jesus as Saviour and King to a progressive (regressive!) life of mediocrity, boredom, and doctrinal and political wrangling.

What the Bible says matters only if it meets my own personal agenda.
 
J

John146

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#10
Jan 13, 2016
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#10
Deuteronomy said:
I think you could also add this to the list of signs that a church has gone progressive, perhaps under the banner of your point #3 above:

a. Referring to God as both Father and Mother (or simply as Mother)​
b. Referring to the Holy Spirit as feminine and/or as Mother​
c. The ordination of those claiming to be practicing homosexuals as pastors and priests​
d. Homosexual marriage​
e. Premarital (and sometimes even extra-marital) heterosexual sex is not considered to be sinful​
f. Female pastors & elders​
g. Biblical church discipline is no longer practiced​
h. Outside of murder, rape and/or theft, the only thing that is truly considered sinful is a lack of tolerance for all of the other sins/sinful lifestyles that the Bible condemns and declares to be sinful​

~Deut
Click to expand...
The church gone feminine. Feelings instead of doctrine. Social events instead of outreach. Playing instead of praying.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#11
#11
crossnote said:
1. There is a lowered view of the Bible
2. Feelings are emphasized over facts
3. Essential Christian doctrines are open for re-interpretation
4. Historic terms are re-defined
5. The heart of the gospel message shifts from sin and redemption to social justice

(for further explanation... https://www.alisachilders.com/blog/...ht-be-heading-toward-progressive-christianity )
Click to expand...

May not seem like much,but when they took away the hymn books, I saw an attitude adjustment. I'm not totally against worship music,but I find much of it repetitive. Where as many of the hymns had doctrines contained within. I saw many churches in my travels that split down the middle over music.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#12
#12
John146 said:
The church gone feminine. Feelings instead of doctrine. Social events instead of outreach. Playing instead of praying.
Click to expand...
Sounds like something Lenard Ravenhill would say. I'm not even sure the church knows how to do outreach these days. One young pastor we had bought bottles of water and had the church pass them out in the Wal-Mart parking lot. They had the church name on them. I guess the idea was they'd be thankful for the water and come to church? His next idea was to buy a bike and raffle it off to neighborhood kids,maybe then they'd come. I don't know how much money they spent on things like that. Never brought in one person that I know of,other than to get goodies and run. smh
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

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#13
Sep 8, 2018
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#13
John146 said:
The church gone feminine. Feelings instead of doctrine. Social events instead of outreach. Playing instead of praying.
Click to expand...
AMEN BROTHER.
Couldnt of said it better myself.

In another thread here someone posted some "worship music" and the guy looked/sounded/dressed/acted like a member of the backstreet boys! Moaning to the microphone! That kind of singing style wouldnt fly in the 1800s, nobody would hear you. SING LOUD

I hope God raises up some real hairylegged redblooded men of God to the pulpits again and kicks these sissies out.

here is a fun exercise: Go and listen to some sermons from a while back, some hellfire and brimstone preaching. Then go and listen to the modern sissified TRASH they preach, its like NIGHT and DAY!

Differences:

Hell -> separation from God's love
Saved -> relationship with God
Christ is THE way -> Christ is a way
Non-Christians are lost -> we dont know for sure, maybe they got a relationship with God by worshiping a stone
Get saved -> "connect"
Fear the Lord! -> Jesus is my homeboy, I play basketball with Him
Dressing modestly -> dressing immodest, flashy, sodomite looking
Pulpit and pews -> stage, smoke machines, dimmed lights, bar stool
Singing hymns -> singing contemporary music or LISTENING to the 'worship team' sing it.
Be ye separate, dont conform to the world -> "engage" the culture, new christianity
 
J

John146

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#14
Jan 13, 2016
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#14
kaylagrl said:
May not seem like much,but when they took away the hymn books, I saw an attitude adjustment. I'm not totally against worship music,but I find much of it repetitive. Where as many of the hymns had doctrines contained within. I saw many churches in my travels that split down the middle over music.
Click to expand...
The modern worship songs are much about feelings and emotions than bible doctrine. One can learn much doctrine through the hymns.
 
J

John146

Senior Member
#15
Jan 13, 2016
17,176
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113
#15
Hevosmies said:
AMEN BROTHER.
Couldnt of said it better myself.

In another thread here someone posted some "worship music" and the guy looked/sounded/dressed/acted like a member of the backstreet boys! Moaning to the microphone! That kind of singing style wouldnt fly in the 1800s, nobody would hear you. SING LOUD

I hope God raises up some real hairylegged redblooded men of God to the pulpits again and kicks these sissies out.

here is a fun exercise: Go and listen to some sermons from a while back, some hellfire and brimstone preaching. Then go and listen to the modern sissified TRASH they preach, its like NIGHT and DAY!

Differences:

Hell -> separation from God's love
Saved -> relationship with God
Christ is THE way -> Christ is a way
Non-Christians are lost -> we dont know for sure, maybe they got a relationship with God by worshiping a stone
Get saved -> "connect"
Fear the Lord! -> Jesus is my homeboy, I play basketball with Him
Dressing modestly -> dressing immodest, flashy, sodomite looking
Pulpit and pews -> stage, smoke machines, dimmed lights, bar stool
Singing hymns -> singing contemporary music or LISTENING to the 'worship team' sing it.
Be ye separate, dont conform to the world -> "engage" the culture, new christianity
Click to expand...

You just did brother....that is, saying it better yourself. Amen to that! It may all come down to $$$. Worldly compromise brings in money.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#16
#16
Hevosmies said:
AMEN BROTHER.
Couldnt of said it better myself.

In another thread here someone posted some "worship music" and the guy looked/sounded/dressed/acted like a member of the backstreet boys! Moaning to the microphone! That kind of singing style wouldnt fly in the 1800s, nobody would hear you. SING LOUD

I hope God raises up some real hairylegged redblooded men of God to the pulpits again and kicks these sissies out.

here is a fun exercise: Go and listen to some sermons from a while back, some hellfire and brimstone preaching. Then go and listen to the modern sissified TRASH they preach, its like NIGHT and DAY!

Differences:

Hell -> separation from God's love
Saved -> relationship with God
Christ is THE way -> Christ is a way
Non-Christians are lost -> we dont know for sure, maybe they got a relationship with God by worshiping a stone
Get saved -> "connect"
Fear the Lord! -> Jesus is my homeboy, I play basketball with Him
Dressing modestly -> dressing immodest, flashy, sodomite looking
Pulpit and pews -> stage, smoke machines, dimmed lights, bar stool
Singing hymns -> singing contemporary music or LISTENING to the 'worship team' sing it.
Be ye separate, dont conform to the world -> "engage" the culture, new christianity
Click to expand...
Several months ago I went back to a church I use to attend for a concert. The new flashy pastor bounded up to us and shook our hand not knowing who we were and that most people there knew us. He looked like the tv evangelists, not judging his heart, just an observation. Then the lights went down and colored lights came up on the stage. Several young people started to sing/yell into the mics. The crowd jumped up at once and danced and bounced. Didn't matter the age,bounce,bounce,bounce. Seems like the songs were stuck on repeat,loop the same words over and over. I honestly could say if I was in a bar or a church. Then they finally ended and the pastor mentioned had written the songs (not hard to tell). I felt uncomfortable and sorry I had gone. Until the special singer I had gone to see took the stage. I realized I wasn't the only one that felt out of place. He began with an old hymn of the church and from that moment the whole service changed and God moved in.

We left that church,as a family, because the pastor before this one got into the same thing. The pastor preached for the call and only two people did not vote for him,myself and my mother. I couldn't put my finger on it but something didn't feel right. He came in and his wife changed everything she could get her hands on. I guess she considered herself "crafty". smh She put fairies on the alter,not angels,fairies!! No one said a word as the two of them turned the church upside down with "changes".

When the rubber met the road for us was when the pastor made it clear we were going to stand for worship,as long as it took,and he better see us standing. He would walk to the back of the church to see if anyone was sitting. So all the older folk would stand through 45mins of music and everyone would bounce,bounce,bounce. Well then there's me. I sat on purpose and crossed my arms. He called those few of us sitting out from the stage. Didn't budge me. I sat stone faced. We left that church and that pastor ended up taking them for thousands of dollars,on top of spending thousands on useless "impovements" in the church. I say all that to say this,it comes down to the old fashioned Gospel. If you can't fill the seats with the Gospel you are wasting your time and effort. I've seen so many churches do everything possible to get people in the seats. One church buying a big screen tv so the men would come for the Super Bowl, I kid you not. People have no discernment these days,not a clue. And the churches either sit empty or are full of secular Christians that don't know Genesis from the maps. smh A pity.
 
Lanolin

Lanolin

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#17
Dec 15, 2018
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#17
When the church advertises 'free coffee' instead of free salvation.
I do drive past ones that actually do this, they have HUGE banners advertising 'free coffee'. Why would you go to church for free coffee? Most churches already share tea and or coffee for free after the service as part of fellowship, but surely its not the main reason why believers are there.
 
K

kaylagrl

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#18
#18
Lanolin said:
When the church advertises 'free coffee' instead of free salvation.
I do drive past ones that actually do this, they have HUGE banners advertising 'free coffee'. Why would you go to church for free coffee? Most churches already share tea and or coffee for free after the service as part of fellowship, but surely its not the main reason why believers are there.
Click to expand...

Lol. Funny story. One of the two churches we attended pulled this coffee nonsense. The young pastor brought in tables to the back of the sanctuary,not joking,and people would sit around the tables and talk and drink their coffees DURING the service!! The young people loved it of course. What some of the "old saints" thought didn't matter. Every Sunday with the coffee,then they added doughnuts. So imagine sitting in church,a sermon being preached and people sitting drinking and eating and talking like they were in a coffee shop.

So one Sunday the pastor had to be away and he asked my father to preach. My father got up,opened his Bible,looked up with his dead eye stare and said " I WILL be offended if any of you drink coffee or eat during my sermon"!! Not one person moved during the whole service. rofl I looked around and laughed and thought "oh,it works on them too!!" lol My father isn't one you disobey. Cracked me up.
 
crossnote

crossnote

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#19
Nov 24, 2012
30,770
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#19
kaylagrl said:
May not seem like much,but when they took away the hymn books, I saw an attitude adjustment. I'm not totally against worship music,but I find much of it repetitive. Where as many of the hymns had doctrines contained within. I saw many churches in my travels that split down the middle over music.
Click to expand...
Yes there seems to be more of 'me' and less of Him in today's music...especially concerning the atonement.
 
K

kaylagrl

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#20
#20
crossnote said:
Yes there seems to be more of 'me' and less of Him in today's music...especially concerning the atonement.
Click to expand...
I knew there was an issue when they changed the words " For such a worm as I" to "such a One as I". I still sing it the correct way.
 
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