Observations on hell and the rich man and Lazarus account in Luke 16:19-31

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Feb 7, 2019
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#1
1. This account is not a parable, since it doesn't fit the style of a parable (using terms to appeal to everyone; this account is anything but ordinary to the common man). Parables never mention specific names, much less great chasms and conversations with specific information.

2. Jesus honored the beggar Lazarus by telling us his name, but no one knows who the rich man was.

3. Of all the untold millions of wicked people who are no doubt burning in the flames in hades, it's ironic that the rich man was only able to call upon the beggar who was laid at his gate in life for assistance - perhaps indicating that he was the only one he could see; ironic justice.

4. The poor, starving, diseased beggar Lazarus is given the extreme honor in the afterlife of spending time with Abraham, the originator of their people.

5. The rich man is so desperate for relief that a mere touch of a wet finger to his tongue is his fervent desire.

6. Lazarus never says one word to the rich man in hades, nor does the rich man call out to him. It's possible that, being tormented by him in life, God doesn't allow Lazarus to hear his cries while Lazarus is "being comforted." So the rich man gets to forever see the man he ignored being comforted (at least until Jesus carried the blessed in hades up to heaven after the resurrection).

7. Abraham told the rich man that even if someone rose from the dead and witnessed to his still-living brothers, they wouldn't believe. And we see that Jesus rose from the dead, and those disbelieving (like the Pharisees and experts in the law) STILL didn't believe Him, proving Abraham right.

8. It mentions that that the rich man was buried; Lazarus was not. His body was almost certainly thrown into the city's dump.

9. The rich man specifically says that it was a PLACE he was in with flames (not merely a state of being) - "Send Lazarus to warn my brothers so they won't also come to this terrible PLACE."
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
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#2
Observations on hell and the rich man and Lazarus account in Luke 16:19-31
I am in agreement with your observations but you might want to change "hell" to "Hades" in the title.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
21,425
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#4
Hades? The Greek mythological realm of the dead. What about simply the pit or from the original Hebrew, sheol?? Just wondering.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#5
1. This account is not a parable, since it doesn't fit the style of a parable (using terms to appeal to everyone; this account is anything but ordinary to the common man). Parables never mention specific names, much less great chasms and conversations with specific information.

2. Jesus honored the beggar Lazarus by telling us his name, but no one knows who the rich man was.

3. Of all the untold millions of wicked people who are no doubt burning in the flames in hades, it's ironic that the rich man was only able to call upon the beggar who was laid at his gate in life for assistance - perhaps indicating that he was the only one he could see; ironic justice.

4. The poor, starving, diseased beggar Lazarus is given the extreme honor in the afterlife of spending time with Abraham, the originator of their people.

5. The rich man is so desperate for relief that a mere touch of a wet finger to his tongue is his fervent desire.

6. Lazarus never says one word to the rich man in hades, nor does the rich man call out to him. It's possible that, being tormented by him in life, God doesn't allow Lazarus to hear his cries while Lazarus is "being comforted." So the rich man gets to forever see the man he ignored being comforted (at least until Jesus carried the blessed in hades up to heaven after the resurrection).

7. Abraham told the rich man that even if someone rose from the dead and witnessed to his still-living brothers, they wouldn't believe. And we see that Jesus rose from the dead, and those disbelieving (like the Pharisees and experts in the law) STILL didn't believe Him, proving Abraham right.

8. It mentions that that the rich man was buried; Lazarus was not. His body was almost certainly thrown into the city's dump.

9. The rich man specifically says that it was a PLACE he was in with flames (not merely a state of being) - "Send Lazarus to warn my brothers so they won't also come to this terrible PLACE."
10. Abraham told the rich man that his brothers had the law and prophets (word of GOD) let them hear them.....<--Jesus said the law and prophets testify of him.....while burning in hell he still refused to believe the word of God would work to keep his brothers from coming to that place....

No faith in life = no faith in death......even if cooking in hell
 
Feb 7, 2019
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#6
I am in agreement with your observations but you might want to change "hell" to "Hades" in the title.
Yes, I know, but it was just to liven up the title. I think the rich man would agree that where he's at is entirely hell-like.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
17,111
3,687
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#7
1. This account is not a parable, since it doesn't fit the style of a parable (using terms to appeal to everyone; this account is anything but ordinary to the common man). Parables never mention specific names, much less great chasms and conversations with specific information.

2. Jesus honored the beggar Lazarus by telling us his name, but no one knows who the rich man was.

3. Of all the untold millions of wicked people who are no doubt burning in the flames in hades, it's ironic that the rich man was only able to call upon the beggar who was laid at his gate in life for assistance - perhaps indicating that he was the only one he could see; ironic justice.

4. The poor, starving, diseased beggar Lazarus is given the extreme honor in the afterlife of spending time with Abraham, the originator of their people.

5. The rich man is so desperate for relief that a mere touch of a wet finger to his tongue is his fervent desire.

6. Lazarus never says one word to the rich man in hades, nor does the rich man call out to him. It's possible that, being tormented by him in life, God doesn't allow Lazarus to hear his cries while Lazarus is "being comforted." So the rich man gets to forever see the man he ignored being comforted (at least until Jesus carried the blessed in hades up to heaven after the resurrection).

7. Abraham told the rich man that even if someone rose from the dead and witnessed to his still-living brothers, they wouldn't believe. And we see that Jesus rose from the dead, and those disbelieving (like the Pharisees and experts in the law) STILL didn't believe Him, proving Abraham right.

8. It mentions that that the rich man was buried; Lazarus was not. His body was almost certainly thrown into the city's dump.

9. The rich man specifically says that it was a PLACE he was in with flames (not merely a state of being) - "Send Lazarus to warn my brothers so they won't also come to this terrible PLACE."
Keep it hell. That's the correct word for the English language.

#2 the rich man's name is not mentioned because it has been blotted out of the book of life. "I never knew you."
 
Feb 7, 2019
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#8
Hades? The Greek mythological realm of the dead. What about simply the pit or from the original Hebrew, sheol?? Just wondering.
Sheol = the afterlife in the OT
Hades - the afterlife in the NT
Gehenna - the lake of fire
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#9
Keep it hell. That's the correct word for the English language.

#2 the rich man's name is not mentioned because it has been blotted out of the book of life. "I never knew you."
AND the memory of the wicked shall be forgotten.......
 

Hevosmies

Well-known member
Sep 8, 2018
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#10
I bet the rich man is that guy who hasnt hired me to a well paying job yet!
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#11
I bet the rich man is that guy who hasnt hired me to a well paying job yet!
Fly over I will pay you to clear trees and brush HAHAHAHH and give you a place to live...........HAHHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHHA
 
Dec 12, 2013
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#12
I want to add another point to this thread.....the over all point of the narrative is the sufficiency of the word of God to save a man and keep him from dying lost.....Abraham was clear on the ability of the word of God to keep them from coming into this place of torment....Even though JESUS did indeed rise from the dead, it is the word of God that brings faith and salvation....

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God....the power is in the message and if one exercises faith into said message.....we can never alleviate that absolute truth.
 

calibob

Sinner saved by grace
May 29, 2018
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Anaheim, Cali.
#13
I want to add another point to this thread.....the over all point of the narrative is the sufficiency of the word of God to save a man and keep him from dying lost.....Abraham was clear on the ability of the word of God to keep them from coming into this place of torment....Even though JESUS did indeed rise from the dead, it is the word of God that brings faith and salvation....

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God....the power is in the message and if one exercises faith into said message.....we can never alleviate that absolute truth.
I want to add another point to this thread.....the over all point of the narrative is the sufficiency of the word of God to save a man and keep him from dying lost.....Abraham was clear on the ability of the word of God to keep them from coming into this place of torment....Even though JESUS did indeed rise from the dead, it is the word of God that brings faith and salvation....

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God....the power is in the message and if one exercises faith into said message.....we can never alleviate that absolute truth.
How even more fortunate we are now that most of us can read the word of God too.
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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Vinita, Oklahoma, USA
yeshuaofisrael.org
#14
So you want to take a statement from only one gospel to draw major doctrine even though we must scrap many other points in scripture to do so. Warning: Let everything be established at the mouth of two or three witnesses. Jesus said: John 8:17 "It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true."

2 Cor. 13:1 "This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established."

Well then, maybe it was just a parable even though it does not fit your man made criteria. Let's look at a couple of scriptures that counter it.

Act 2:29, 34, 35 "Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day. For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool."

Hebrews 11 speaks of all the ancient patriarchs: Heb. 11:39, 40 "And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect." You are saying that they are waiting somewhere in Abraham's bosom (including Abraham himself) awaiting the resurrection?

Why does it refer to those that sleep in Christ if they are conscious in paradise? 1 Thess. 4:14, 15 "For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep. For this we declare to you by a word from the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep."

We must fit all scripture together or we should just throw it all out. I have seldom drawn doctrine on just one instance of scripture knowing some of our translations have been tampered with. Christendom was at the mercy of the apostate Catholic Church early in its history. I believe they messed with some of the scriptures. ;):unsure::)
 

RickyZ

Senior Member
Sep 20, 2012
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#16
I want to add another point to this thread.....the over all point of the narrative is the sufficiency of the word of God to save a man and keep him from dying lost.....Abraham was clear on the ability of the word of God to keep them from coming into this place of torment....Even though JESUS did indeed rise from the dead, it is the word of God that brings faith and salvation....

Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God....the power is in the message and if one exercises faith into said message.....we can never alleviate that absolute truth.
You make me laugh, bro; you make me laugh

Ya just couldn't leave it alone lol
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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#17
Sheol = the afterlife in the OT
Hades - the afterlife in the NT
Gehenna - the lake of fire
Strong's and other list these as holding places for the afterlife because of the middle ages it became a popular theme. Originally sheol and hades both simply meant the grave. It is still best to translate it as such. They had to put further meaning to them because of traditions of men. Before Dante wrote his "Inferno"—glamorizing fiery punishments—it wasn't translated as such. :cool:
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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#18
Just went to the top of the page to check it out. Yes, it is Bible Discussion….
 
Feb 7, 2019
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#20
Strong's and other list these as holding places for the afterlife because of the middle ages it became a popular theme. Originally sheol and hades both simply meant the grave. It is still best to translate it as such. They had to put further meaning to them because of traditions of men. Before Dante wrote his "Inferno"—glamorizing fiery punishments—it wasn't translated as such. :cool:
Yes, both Sheol and Hades are the grave, so both the blessed and the cursed went there. Thus, the rich man and Lazarus were together in Hades, which was separated by a great chasm, the blessed on one side and the damned on the other, since at that time no propitiation for sins yet existed. After the Great White Throne Judgment, the wicked will be judged for their sins, removed from Hades and thrown into Gehenna, or the lake of fire, where they'll reside forever and ever.