Luke 16 question

Based on I Cor 15 I agree all people get that Body that can not be destroyed at the Resurrection. But, Luke 16 is about the grave, between their death and resurrection. Isaiah 14 shows us that people are alive in the grave, thus one can realize their errors. It is possible, that someone in the grave may have heard enough of the gospel to share it with all there.

I do not see how supernatural fire burns a spirit. The question relates to between death and Resurrection in the grave.

Thanks for input, maybe you can find a verse or two that relates.

Huh, means I did not understand what you wrote. Please, try again. Maybe putting it another way will help.

If my parents were in hell, I do not think I would stop crying.

Also, someone in Hell would be under the new order right?

From the slain under the throne of Jesus, we know we will have our memories.

Well, the day of salvation is limited to a person while they are still alive. Salvation is not extended to those who die in their sins. Once a person dies in their sins God's grace, love and mercy are not longer in operation for that person. Do you understand? Those who die in their sins will be held accountable for each and everyone of them. For all sin must be accounted for. Regarding this Jesus said "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give an account of on the day of judgment," i.e. the great white throne judgment.

Luke 16 is not about the grave. You think that the rich man was having a conversation with Abraham and Lazarus in a tomb? The word Hades should never be translated as grave, but is defined as the realm of departed spirits. Here's the definition:

Strong's Concordance
hadés: Hades, the abode of departed spirits
Original Word: ᾍδης, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: hadés
Phonetic Spelling: (hah'-dace)
Definition: Hades, the abode of departed spirits
Usage: Hades, the unseen world.

HELPS Word-studies
86 hádēs (from 1 /A "not" and idein/eidō, "see") – properly, the "unseen place," referring to the (invisible) realm in which all the dead reside, i.e. the present dwelling place of all the departed (deceased); Hades.

As you can see, Hades should never be translated as the grave, because it has to do with where the spirits of the wicked go when the body dies. Hades/Sheol is a place within the heart of the earth where the spirits of the wicked go at the time of death.

Sort of like Ethanol Fires, otherwise known as “the invisible fire”

If you can imagine a love so strong, and so filling, that it just OVER WRITES EVERYTHING? You would then have just a sliver of an idea, of the Father's LOVE for, and to His children!

There's just no PLACE for anything else!

Plasma is another example, you can see the light from it but that’s about it, it’s the strange and mysterious 4th state of matter.

I personally think it may just be the way God describes the horror of knowing you have no chance anymore. Could you imagine the hopelessness of that? Being conscience, KNOWING God is real, and ALL good in life, and now you KNOW you no longer have ANY of that goodness of eternity, forever cut off. It would be a never ceasing torment, almost like something burning, no escape, unimaginably painful, forever, with NO hope. That sounds worse than actually burning forever, but that just my thoughts on this subject.

lost in the ozone - Motörhead

In addition to what I've already shared, once a person dies in their sins, their record is sealed. Remember when Jesus was talking with the Pharisees and the scribes? He told them "you will die in your sins because you did not believe that I am He." When a person dies without receiving Christ in life, they die in the sins. It is only while we are alive that we have the opportunity for salvation. Those spirits who are in Sheol/Hades are who they were in life with all of their faculties and knowledge, minus their bodies and they now know the truth. But like the rich man they can't do anything to change their situation.

Don't see how that relates since I love my parents

Where does it say their record is sealed? Is not allowed to reopen it?

Rev 20
11 Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. The earth and the heavens fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12 And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13 The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what they had done. 14 Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.

Does not say the books are sealed at death, but from Isa 14 we know that people can do things after death.

Isaiah 14 Revised Standard Version (RSV)
Restoration of Judah
14 The Lord will have compassion on Jacob and will again choose Israel, and will set them in their own land, and aliens will join them and will cleave to the house of Jacob. 2 And the peoples will take them and bring them to their place, and the house of Israel will possess them in the Lord’s land as male and female slaves; they will take captive those who were their captors, and rule over those who oppressed them.

Downfall of the King of Babylon
3 When the Lord has given you rest from your pain and turmoil and the hard service with which you were made to serve, 4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon:

“How the oppressor has ceased,
the insolent fury[a] ceased!
5 The Lord has broken the staff of the wicked,
the scepter of rulers,
6 that smote the peoples in wrath
with unceasing blows,
that ruled the nations in anger
with unrelenting persecution.
7 The whole earth is at rest and quiet;
they break forth into singing.
8 The cypresses rejoice at you,
the cedars of Lebanon, saying,
‘Since you were laid low,
no hewer comes up against us.’
9 Sheol beneath is stirred up
to meet you when you come,
it rouses the shades to greet you,
all who were leaders of the earth;
it raises from their thrones
all who were kings of the nations.
10 All of them will speak
and say to you:
‘You too have become as weak as we!
You have become like us!’
11 Your pomp is brought down to Sheol,
the sound of your harps;
maggots are the bed beneath you,
and worms are your covering.

12 “How you are fallen from heaven,
O Day Star, son of Dawn!
How you are cut down to the ground,
you who laid the nations low!
13 You said in your heart,
‘I will ascend to heaven;
above the stars of God
I will set my throne on high;
I will sit on the mount of assembly
in the far north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,
I will make myself like the Most High.’
15 But you are brought down to Sheol,
to the depths of the Pit.
16 Those who see you will stare at you,
and ponder over you:
‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble,
who shook kingdoms,
17 who made the world like a desert
and overthrew its cities,
who did not let his prisoners go home?’
18 All the kings of the nations lie in glory,
each in his own tomb;
19 but you are cast out, away from your sepulchre,
like a loathed untimely birth,
clothed with the slain, those pierced by the sword,
who go down to the stones of the Pit,
like a dead body trodden under foot.
20 You will not be joined with them in burial,
because you have destroyed your land,
you have slain your people.

“May the descendants of evildoers
nevermore be named!
21 Prepare slaughter for his sons
because of the guilt of their fathers,
lest they rise and possess the earth,
and fill the face of the world with cities.”

22 “I will rise up against them,” says the Lord of hosts, “and will cut off from Babylon name and remnant, offspring and posterity, says the Lord. 23 And I will make it a possession of the hedgehog, and pools of water, and I will sweep it with the broom of destruction, says the Lord of hosts.”

I don't know why this is an issue with you? If everyone had the option to repent and receive Christ after death, believe me every single person would. There is no faith required to believe in Christ once a person dies, because they know the truth and are already experiencing punishment.

If it was possible for the unrighteous to be saved after death, then the rich man would have surely excepted it because he was in torment in flame. But what can we garner from that event? The rich man asked Abraham to send Lazarus back from the dead to his father's house to warn his five brothers so that they would not come to the same place of torment. Abraham told him that they had Moses and the prophets (the word of God) to warn them. The result is that neither he nor Lazarus, nor anyone else is able to leave once they end up there. In addition, Abraham told the rich man "Remember when you were alive you received your good things while Lazarus received bad things. But now he is comforted and you are in torment.

Revelation 20:11-15, which you've listed above is the great white throne judgment, which is the resurrection of all the unrighteous dead throughout history. Notice that their spirits come out of Hades and anyone's name not found written in the book of life will then be thrown into the lake of fire. Those people currently in Hades are in torment in flame just as the rich man of Lazarus fame was/is and will be up until the great white throne judgment.

In short, if there was salvation after death, then there would be no one would end up in the lake of fire.

Furthermore, those books that are opened that they are judged from, is a record of all the sins that the wicked will have committed when they were alive. If you have even one sin not covered, you are in separated from God and on your way to death.

Think about this also: Jesus went through an excruciating death to pay the penalty for our sins and you think that those who die in their sins can still have the opportunity to be saved without having faith in Him? That would be a slap in the face to Jesus. If it were possible to still be saved after a person dies, then let us eat, drink and be merry, for we can live our lives in the sinful nature and then just repent after we die. Do you see how ridiculous that sounds?

Tis an old saying that goes: "The PROOF, is in the pudding!" "If you have NO pudding?" "You have NO proof!"

I pray you get some "pudding!"

Then, you would KNOW!

Hi Friend, the rich man did not have knowledge of the gospel to know to repent.

also, in 1 Peter 3:18 where the Bible says that Jesus preached the gospel to spirits in prison. Why would he do that if they could not repent?

1 Corinthians 12:3 which says, “Therefore I want you to understand that no one speaking in the Spirit of God ever says ‘Jesus is accursed!’ and no one can say ‘Jesus is Lord’ except in the Holy Spirit.”

Philippians 2:9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Romans 14
9 For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.

10 Why do you pass judgment on your brother? Or you, why do you despise your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of God; 11 for it is written,

“As I live, says the Lord, every knee shall bow to me,
and every tongue shall give praise to God.”

12 So each of us shall give account of himself to God.


For everyone to bow and confess Jesus is Lord, they would need to have the Holy Spirit.

that is not really an answer at all