Not By Works

GodsGrace101 · Feb 5, 2019

@arguless
@Macabeus
@justpassinthrough

Hi A, Hi M,
I've followed your posts and the are very correct.
But...
I'm thinking that our time here is pretty much wasted.
I'm going to withdraw and leave those that misunderstand the bible AND what Jesus and the other writers said to speak amongst themselves since they all seem to believe they are so correct in their understanding. @Budman actually stated that he could do and live as he wants because he "believes" in Jesus --- whatever that means.

I have two more posts to write and that'll be it.
One for @mailmandan regarding 2 Peter 2:20-22. Not for him but for the benefit of those reading along.

One for @TruthTalk who posted 14 verses which he THINKS prove OSAS (or whatever he cares to call it) and to which I replied --- for each and every verse. I asked him if he could do the same with 14 verses that prove OSAS is incorrect, but, of course, he declined. However, I will be sending him the verses.

I know that @Macabeus believes in preservation of the saints...they happen to believe in the correct form of OSAS, even though I do not agree with calvinism...they DO understand that we must obey God and I respect them for that.

God will be the judge of those who did not heed His Son.

Hevosmies · Feb 5, 2019

@GodsGrace101 As you know I ALSO believe in perseverence of the saints!

Just agree with me and you'll be alright.

I know you love me enough to do that.

Rev 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
Rev 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

TruthTalk · Feb 5, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:

star · Feb 5, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:

Now you are taking my post out of context to suit your agenda. The Word of God (the bible) and the author (the HS) should be believed and followed over any "church denomination."

Good try though.

BillG · Feb 5, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:

Or never loved God in the first place?

Even someone who loves God can get trapped in a sin cycle but yet still hate it and call out to God for help every day.

But they are still living a life of sin.

The truth is that every day we all live a life of sin, because basically we sin every day.
It doesn't to be a sin cycle.

You mentioned in an earlier post about sins of omission and commission.
Now I agree with that.
This concept does confuse me a little bit.

We have the Bible.
We only need to look at what Jesus said how we should treat others.
We only need to look at what James talks about with regards to faith and works.

So in my mind I question, is there such a thing as the sin of omission?

We have no excuse for sin as we follow Jesus who was sinless and gave us the standard.

When he separates the sheep and the goats the difference between the 2 is that one did and the other did not.

One fed him when he was hungry but the other did not. However the other knew he was hungry.

Therefore a sin of commission and not omission.

Which I think James was addressing.
Sin of commission not conducent to what we know walk in.

Anyway just my thoughts.

GodsGrace101 · Feb 5, 2019

star said:

I guess you're not divine since your forgiving leaves much to be desired.
I refer to your signature line.

I tire of this thread and the dishonesty shown by most here.

Here's what you said in post no. 83,488:

It does not matter on iota what "most churches" believe. The only "matter" is what the Word of God has to say. The bible should be worshiped and not a "church." The bible tells us how to be saved, how to live, how to please God, why we were brought to life, why we matter as humans and so very much more. There will be no denominations in heaven.

I don't worship the bible...
I worship Jesus, who is Lord.

Luke 6:46 JESUS SAID
"Why do you call Me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say?"

I do hope you know that Lord means Master.

In Mathew 5:3-10 Jesus tells us how we should behave:

Here are verses for you:
Matthew 5:5
Matthew 5:7
Matthew 5:8
Matthew 5:9

BillG · Feb 5, 2019

gb9 said:

Gb9,

Amen, amen amen and amen.

Thank you for your post.

It's done me good in the sense that you understand struggling believers.
It makes me sad though that those who wish to judge just write those who struggle off.

It really breaks my heart, because such people who judge have no interest in disciplining.

Just judge, like the Pharisees.

Breaks my heart.

GodsGrace101 · Feb 5, 2019

TruthTalk said:

Why are you posting these AGAIN??
The third time.
I answered each and every one in post no. 83,503.

I guess you missed it. Here it is again...

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

This will be in reply to your post no. 83,470
in which you posted many verses that you believe OSAS to be true.
Here is why they are NOT true.... One by one...

"The Spirit himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God,"
Romans 8:16
IF we have been born from above and are children of God, this is true.

John 5:24 - "has eternal life"
Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me 'has eternal life'. He does not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.
We have eternal life IF we HEAR the word of God and BELIEVE in HIM.

John 3:36 - "has eternal life"
Whoever believes in the Son 'has eternal life'; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
Right again. Whoever BELIEVES, present tense, and whoever OBEYS.

Ephesians 2:8-9 - "have been saved"
For by grace you 'have been saved' through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
Every church I know of believes we are saved by faith...this is justification. An act of God whereby we are declared innocent.

John 10:28 - "never parish"
I give them eternal life, and they will 'never perish', and no one will snatch them out of my hand.
Correct. For as long as we ABIDE IN CHRIST. See John 15:1-6
Nothing can snatch us out of the hand of God,,,,except our own free will decision to stop making Him our Lord.

1 John 5:13 - "that you may "know" that you have "eternal life."
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God 'that you may know that you have eternal life."
Correct. "to you WHO BELIEVE in the name of the Son of God.
Again....present tense. For as long as we believe, we have eternal life. Now in spirit and soul...and at the resurrection, in body. Which is immortality.

Romans 8:1 - "no condemnation"
There is therefore now 'no condemnation' for those who are in Christ Jesus.
Amen. God loves those who love His Son. Those IN JESUS will not be judged and are not in God's wrath.

Romans 10:13 - "will be saved"
For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord 'will be saved.”
This requires much more time. Calling on the name of the Lord is not enough.
Not those who call Lord Lord, but those who do the will of My Father. Mathew 7:21
Also James 1:22...be not only hearers of the word...but doers of the word.

John 3:16 - "have eternal life"
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but 'have eternal life."
Yes. Whosoever BELIEVES in Him.....Again Present tense.

Romans 10:13-14 - "will be saved"
For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching?
I don't understand why you posted this...

John 10:27-30 - "I give them eternal life"
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 'I give them eternal life', and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father's hand. I and the Father are one.”
No one will snatch the sheep out of God's hands.
But the lost sheep DID wander away, didn't he?
And could you show me where we lost our free will to walk out of His hand??

John 6:37 - "I will never cast out"
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me 'I will never cast out."
Amen. Jesus turns no one away!

John 14:16 - our advocate "The Holy Spirit", will be with us "forever"
"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another advocate to help you and 'be with you forever.
The Holy Spirit will be here on earth forever for whoever wants to make good use of Him.
He also will not abandon us who desire to abide with Him.

Romans 8:38-39 - "nothing will separate us from the love of God."
For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Jesus did say that some believe for a while and then abandon their faith.
Luke 8:13
Luke 15:24

Now....
If I list the same number of verses showing how the N.T. writers, and Jesus, believed we could become lost again...would you be willing to explain each one?

BillG · Feb 5, 2019

Matthew55 said:

An example being that baptism saves.

Is that what you believe?

You know I don't.

You?

BillG · Feb 5, 2019

stillness said:

I'm sure it can be reciprocated.
Secret prayer no longer secret.

Argueless · Feb 5, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:

I agree and i also think that these people would not engage in a true Christian Discussion which should be decent and edifying. What i encountered here are rebel soldiers, FALSE PROPHETS AND TEACHERS who i perceive are just trolls wasting our time in a rendezvous on a roller coaster ride whose intention is not really to discuss but to somewhat reach a certain goal for this thread to be recognized, you know what i mean. They are now aiming for the 5000 pages and not even aiming to reach an agreement where there's disagreement for the sake of the truth and for the glory of God.

I guess we have been deceived for joining a thread like this in a supposed to be "bible discussion forum". I'll wait for a go signal and i'm outta here.

...Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to your care. TURN AWAY FROM GODLESS CHATTER AND THE OPPOSING IDEAS OF WHAT IS FALSELY CALLED KNOWLEDGE, which some have professed and in so doing have WANDERED FROM THE FAITH. Grace be with you. 1 Timothy 6:20-21

Again...

...You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable men who will also be QUALIFIED to teach others. Endure hardship with us like A GOOD SOLDIER OF CHRIST JESUS. No one serving as a soldier gets involved in civilian affairs—he wants TO PLEASE HIS COMMANDING OFFICER. Similarly, if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not receive the victor’s crown UNLESS HE COMPETES ACCORDING TO THE RULES. The hardworking farmer should be the first to receive a share of the crops. REFLECT ON WHAT I AM SAYING, for the Lord will give you insight into all this. Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David. THIS IS MY GOSPEL, for which I am suffering even to the point of being chained like a criminal. But God’s word is not chained. Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory. Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we DISOWN HIM, he will also DISOWN US; if we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself.

A Workman Approved by God ...Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against QUARRELING ABOUT WORDS; it is of no value, and only RUINS THOSE WHO LISTEN. Do your best to present yourself to God as one APPROVED, a WORKMAN who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. AVOID GODLESS CHATTER, because THOSE WHO INDULGE IN IT WILL BECOME MORE AND MORE UNGODLY. Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have wandered away from the truth. THEY SAY THAT THE RESURRECTION HAS ALREADY TAKEN PLACE, and they destroy the faith of some. DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH FOOLISH AND STUPID ARGUMENTS, because you know they produce quarrels. And THE LORD'S SERVANT MUST NOT QUARREL; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, NOT RESENTFUL. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them REPENTANCE leading them to a KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will. 2 Timothy 2:1-18,23-26

GOD BLESS.

GodsGrace101 · Feb 5, 2019

TruthTalk said:

Cool image.
Guess you can't wait to answer my verses....

As I've done with yours, Now can you please reply to the following verses that show that we can once again become lost AFTER we have been saved.....
If you can, of course....
You had 14, I'll list 14. And if you can handle it,,,there are MANY MORE.....

1.
Matthew 10:22
22“You will be hated by all because of My name, but it is the one who has endured to the end who will be saved. "

2.
Hebrews 10:26-27
26For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries.

3.
2 Peter 2:20-22
20For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
21For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
22It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT,” and, “A sow, after washing, returnsto wallowing in the mire.”

4.
John 8:31
31So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, “If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; "

5.
John 15:6
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. "

6.
Matthew 5:13
13“You are the salt of the earth; but if the salt has become tasteless, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled under foot by men. "

7.
Romans 11:22
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.

8.
Colossians 1:22-23
22yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach— 23if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.

9.
1 Corinthians 9:27
27but I discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

10.
2 Peter 3:17
17You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness,

11.
1 John 2:24
24As for you, let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father.

12.
Mathew 7:19
19“Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire."

13.
Luke 9:62
62But Jesus said to him, “No one, after putting his hand to the plow and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.”

14.
1 Corinthians 15:1-2
1Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand,
2by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.

I thank you for a reply that explains each one.[/QUOTE]

GodsGrace101 · Feb 5, 2019

Argueless said:

I agree and i also think that these people would not engage in a true Christian Discussion which should be decent and edifying. What i encountered here are rebel soldiers, FALSE PROPHETS AND TEACHERS who i perceive are just trolls wasting our time in a rendezvous on a roller coaster ride whose intention is not really to discuss but to somewhat reach a certain goal for this thread to be recognized, you know what i mean. They are now aiming for the 5000 pages and not even aiming to reach an agreement where there's disagreement for the sake of the truth and for the glory of God.

I guess we have been deceived for joining a thread like this in a supposed to be "bible discussion forum". I'll wait for a go signal and i'm outta here.

...Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to your care. TURN AWAY FROM GODLESS CHATTER AND THE OPPOSING IDEAS OF WHAT IS FALSELY CALLED KNOWLEDGE, which some have professed and in so doing have WANDERED FROM THE FAITH. Grace be with you. 1 Timothy 6:20-21

Again...

...You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable men who will also be QUALIFIED to teach others. Endure hardship with us like A GOOD SOLDIER OF CHRIST JESUS. No one serving as a soldier gets involved in civilian affairs—he wants TO PLEASE HIS COMMANDING OFFICER. Similarly, if anyone competes as an athlete, he does not receive the victor’s crown UNLESS HE COMPETES ACCORDING TO THE RULES. The hardworking farmer should be the first to receive a share of the crops. REFLECT ON WHAT I AM SAYING, for the Lord will give you insight into all this. Remember Jesus Christ, raised from the dead, descended from David. THIS IS MY GOSPEL, for which I am suffering even to the point of being chained like a criminal. But God’s word is not chained. Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they too may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus, with eternal glory. Here is a trustworthy saying: If we died with him, we will also live with him; if we endure, we will also reign with him. If we DISOWN HIM, he will also DISOWN US; if we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot disown himself.

A Workman Approved by God ...Keep reminding them of these things. Warn them before God against QUARRELING ABOUT WORDS; it is of no value, and only RUINS THOSE WHO LISTEN. Do your best to present yourself to God as one APPROVED, a WORKMAN who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth. AVOID GODLESS CHATTER, because THOSE WHO INDULGE IN IT WILL BECOME MORE AND MORE UNGODLY. Their teaching will spread like gangrene. Among them are Hymenaeus and Philetus, who have wandered away from the truth. THEY SAY THAT THE RESURRECTION HAS ALREADY TAKEN PLACE, and they destroy the faith of some. DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH FOOLISH AND STUPID ARGUMENTS, because you know they produce quarrels. And THE LORD'S SERVANT MUST NOT QUARREL; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, NOT RESENTFUL. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them REPENTANCE leading them to a KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will. 2 Timothy 2:1-18,23-26

GOD BLESS.

Couldn't agree more on everything.
I feel like this:
Mathew 7:6
I pour my heart out and it's trampled upon.

I have one more post to @mailmandan and then I'm outta here.

dcontroversal · Feb 5, 2019

Budman said:

DC is absolutely right.

If not, then the gospel is indeed a gospel of works for salvation and not a gift at all.

If you sin every day (and you do) then it is indeed habitual.

Does God grade on a curve? How many sins attributed to a person will damn them?

Just one.

What is sin? Sin is transgression of the Law. Break one, and you've broken them all.

So, if you sin once a day, you're as guilty as breaking the whole Law.

Thank Jesus that His blood cleansed us from all sin.

AMEN to that..........and I fully agree

dcontroversal · Feb 5, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:

The above is the most hilariously sad thing you have said......seeing how you are one of the most dishonest people I have ever seen in my life...back to being a cake taker Fran........tragically I might add....

TruthTalk · Feb 5, 2019

GodsGrace101 said:

Not gone yet and still deceiving everyone here.

GodsGrace101 · Feb 5, 2019

Budman said:

What is left to say?
NOTHING.
And you got a like from:

@TruthTalk
@longtrekker
@dcontroversal

I leave you with this scripture:

Galatians 5:19-21
When you follow the desires of your sinful nature, the results are very clear: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these. Let me tell you again, as I have before, that anyone living that sort of life will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

stillness · Feb 5, 2019

BillG said:

Thanks for your comment, I agree that talking about prayer to be noticed is not having shut the door to be alone with God: also dead work, and that I need to see differently. I was upset by the quarrelsome behaviour which is also a dead work and was under the influence of the evil spirit of witchcraft that is behind this dead work yesterday at work, and had to pray for controversial in the process of deliverance. We are in a war, the only safe place is at the feet of Jesus; walking as He walked. We will all change our view soon, for better or worse as the battle intensifies. I'm no longer upset, and came to understand better, the meaning of let your light shine before men that they may see your good works; referring to those permitted to go on to perfection: to obtain a crown of Life. These are free from dead work, no longer babes ruled by their ego and work the work of God. I still maintain that I heard that I need to let this page go, as the place of unemployment. “Because no one has hired us,’ they answered. “He said to them, ‘You also go and work in my vineyard.’ All the workers obtained a crown.

GodsGrace101 · Feb 5, 2019

@UnderGrace

In post no. 83,487 you said Jesus was not teaching salvation.

I answered the following to which you never replied.
Are you ABLE to reply?

I find that on this thread I never get replies to my questions from the persons to whom they are asked...except for Mailmandan.

Please check out post. no. 83,487 and then reply to the following which I had posted there for you.
Thanks.

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

What IS He teaching?

John 15:1-6 JESUS SAID:
1“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser.
2“Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit, He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit, He prunes it so that it may bear more fruit.
3“You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you.
4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.
5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
6“If anyone does not abide in Me, he is thrown away as a branch and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire and they are burned. "

1. Who is the vine?
2. What does "take away" mean?
3. What does "abide" mean?
4. What happens to the branch that does not bear fruit?
5. Who are the branches?
6. Can we do anything without the vine?
7. If we do not abide...what happens to us?

GodsGrace101 · Feb 5, 2019

TruthTalk said:

Please reply to my post no. 83,632.

Thank you.

Not By Works

Well-known member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Active member

Well-known member

Well-known member

Banned

Banned

Senior Member

Well-known member

Senior Member

Well-known member

Well-known member