Not By Works

Show me where I said, your words quote; "it is OK and acceptable to be a "Christian" but not a disciple?"

Chester I never ever said those words and "you owe me an apology" for misquoting what I did say, It makes me wonder what kind of person you are to misinterpret someones words so bad, shame on you.

Hi forum, misquoting someones words when the words they say are right there in front of you is wrong and misleading to others but to me the big problem is how many times has Chester misinterpreted God's word to all of us here, and never mind what he thinks I said.

How successful have you been Allen? Last I read about Holy Spirits working is that it's His job to draw. Lots of seeds have been planted here.

Ah, hang on tight - let's get this straightened out (please don't call me names yet, . LOL! )

Here is what you wrote:

"Hi UnderGrace, you, decon, chester and most Christians will understand the distinction between a Christian being one who has put their faith in Jesus Christ for their eternal salvation; and a Christian who has counted the cost and chose to follow the path of discipleship; a disciple will also "make disciples" as he grows into maturity."

Here is how I understood your words: There is a "Christian who has put his faith in Jesus Christ for his eternal salvation" and there is "a Christian who has counted the cost and chosen to follow the path of discipleship". So you said there are two kinds or levels of Christians - that was my interpretation of your words - please correct me if I misunderstood . . .?

I do not agree that there are two kinds or levels of Christians. A Christian by definition is a disciple: A Christian by definition is one who has counted the cost and follows the path of Jesus. I believe that if one defines two levels of Christianity then by implication "it is OK and acceptable to be a "Christian" but not a disciple."

Maybe I completely misread your words, and if so I apologize and crawl on my hands and knees begging for mercy! . . .

But if you believe or teach like some do that "many are Christians, but few are disciples" then I probably did understand your statement . . .

Can you clarify for me? We sure do not have to agree on this issue . . . I am fine if you don't see it like me -

Love is never of compunction. That's the result of your "must". Can't make anyone love you, and God isn't like that.

It's the goodness of the Lord that causes one to repent. Not a whip.

Quote Chester: "I do not agree that there are two kinds or levels of Christians."

I never said there are "two levels of Christians"...

Chester I'm done with you so go find someone to argue with cause it aint gnna be me,

Good bye Chester

Ah, I see . . . I did not see this entry before my last response.

Well, then, I completely misunderstood your words and I apologize - sorry!

Only 4 amen's.

Obviously not a charismatic

Same here.

God bless you brother TT

Apology accepted and thank you for your honesty as well, may we both go in peace and God bless!

How does one measure success when realting to a person?

By losing faith..however that could happen.
2 Peter 2:20-22
20For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
21For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
22It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT,” and, “A sow, after washing, returnsto wallowing in the mire.”



By not obeying Jesus, as He commanded.
John 14:21 Jesus Said:
21“He who has My commandments and keeps them is the one who loves Me; and he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and will disclose Myself to him.”

Wothless.........having no worth.
Timeless.........having no time.
Clueless..........having no clue.
Childless........having no child
Faithless........having no faith.

Have you noticed it is par for the course with many that peddle some sort of losable salvation that is maintained, kept, earned etc. by works or some law keeping drivel....how many times do I directly quote scripture and or reference scripture and then get falsely accused of never using scriptures.....

It is the Father's work to draw:

John 6:37, 44
37“All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. "
44“No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day. "

Hi BillG, I would say a person would need to ask the question; How much of the "New Creation in Jesus", did they see and/or, how much of the "old worldly self" did they see. The more of the qualities of our Savior a person see's the better success we will have had in relating to a friend, family or co-worker, wouldn't you agree?

Would I agree?

I would have to say yes and no.

If we focus on our own qualities then we will always fall short of the quality of Jesus and what he has done for us.

A fresh wind is a blowing today...lol

Ok. Looking metaphorically as Strongs and Thayer pictures this.

The law was as a beast of burden with many packs upon it for the owners journey. At the end of the journey, the packs are removed and there's rest. This is a pic of Jesus fulfilling the law for all mankind.

So now what?

The Cross, the blood, the ressurrection. Then Pentecost. The power. The law remains else there would be no justice served in the world. We have yet judges and juries to hear a case and give a verdict.

But, for the sons of God in training? We are those that have received the same power that brought Jesus up from death. That same Holy Spirit of God. So to access the Spirit? Might be better words but am going with this for now....Jesus puts to death our failure to be perfect in the law, the law of sin and death, by being our atonement and His perfection of living the law. Paid in full by the sacrifice that Father Himself gives of His Son, His very own likeness. Who else then could judge if God has freed?

To access....we are given membership in heaven by an exchange of His perfection for our imperfection. Our very DNA is changed in our spirit man, and the spirit of the law is within us by His own nature for He recreates us in our inner being.

That's what abolish and fulfill means. Part of His own being now for we are sons of God and full of light. No darkness.

Not we must...we will. Our will is His.

Now to save our soul....

Hi decon, yep sure is par for the course and here is an example of what happens to those who work to maintain their "losable salvation", after their failed works roll back home, a sad day for sure.