Not By Works

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dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#83,261
Dec 12, 2013
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#83,261
justpassinthrough said:
We are born again, regenerated, saved, made alive spiritually, by grace through faith.​
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We are now born again.​
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Those who are born again and have received the Holy Spirit, now have the ability to be led by the Spirit; to walk according to the righteous desires of the Holy Spirit, by expressing love.​
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It is our choice, to either walk according to the Spirit or walk according to the flesh and thereby practice righteousness or to practice the works of the flesh.​
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- Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.​
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I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.​
Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:16-21​
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  • those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
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There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. Romans 8:1​
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  • who do not walk according to the flesh
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Therefore, brethren, we are debtors—not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh.For if you live according to the flesh you will die; but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. Romans 8:12-13​
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  • For if you live according to the flesh you will die;
  • if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live.
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But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. Romans 6:22-23​
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  • having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

At the end of a life as a slave of God, whereby we bear fruit unto holiness, we will inherit eternal life.​





JPT
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After the JAMES quote is where you go into error......you are conflating issues and the comparison between the lost and the saved....Jesus, John and Paul are clear....THOSE in Christ are NOT condemned and the Romans quote has been embellished by the King Jimmy translators.....

AFTER salvation, which cannot be lost it is ALL reward and or a loss of reward based upon service and or a lack thereof....and eternal LIFE is given at the micro second of belief....it is the SPIRIT that has been born again from above eternally by the word of GOD and according to JOHN it DOES NOT SIN....

THAT is where you miss the mark and slide into a false gospel of works and obedience that does not save and or keep saved.......

Who does GOD chasten and WHY? <------this verse ALONE disproves your conflation above................and is how GOD deals with HIS CHILDREN........a SON by birth will ALWAYS BE A SON BY BIRTH
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#83,262
Dec 12, 2013
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#83,262
gb9 said:
I agree with this.

but, a person will manifest the Fruits of the Sprit because they are born again, not to earn or maintain salvation.
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After the JAMES quote he slides into fallacy and error.....by conflating two issues and two different groups
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#83,265
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#83,265
I am sick and tired of people quoting JAMES out of CONTEXT and leaving out A WORD on purpose to peddle a false dogma of works justifies before GOD....NOTE that the ONLY BIBLE that leaves out the WORD is the KING JAMES which was translated BY 54 Episcopalian priests which peddled a slightly watered down CATHOLIC dogma......it is DISHONEST and A LIE to push JAMES while leaving out WORDS which dictate CONTEXT.....there is a contrast between TWO TYPES OF FAITH and JAMES is clear.......SHOW ME YOUR FAITH BY YOUR WORKS is what is being addressed........THIS IS NOT TEACHING that WORKS JUSTIFIES A MAN BEFORE GOD WHICH TOTALLY CONTRADICTS PAUL'S CONCLUSION

THEREFORE we CONCLUDE A MAN IS JUSTIFIED BY FAITH WITHOUT THE DEEDS/WORKS OF THE LAW.

New International Version
What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?

New Living Translation
What good is it, dear brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but don't show it by your actions? Can that kind of faith save anyone?

English Standard Version
What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him?

Berean Study Bible
What good is it, my brothers, if someone claims to have faith, but has no deeds? Can such faith save him?

Berean Literal Bible
What is the profit, my brothers, if anyone says to have faith, but has no works? Is the faith able to save him?

New American Standard Bible
What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith save him?

King James Bible
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Christian Standard Bible
What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but does not have works? Can such faith save him?

Contemporary English Version
My friends, what good is it to say you have faith, when you don't do anything to show you really do have faith? Can this kind of faith save you?

Good News Translation
My friends, what good is it for one of you to say that you have faith if your actions do not prove it? Can that faith save you?
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#83,267
Apr 7, 2014
25,572
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#83,267
gb9 said:
lightbearer thinks you have to keep the Sabbath to be saved.

so maybe he should be studying salvation by grace.....
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Salvation is by grace through faith, not works, (Ephesians 2:8,9) yet sadly, misguided teachers of the law continue to pervert the gospel by teaching salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works." :(
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#83,268
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#83,268
mailmandan said:
Salvation is by grace through faith, not works, (Ephesians 2:8,9) yet sadly, misguided teachers of the law continue to pervert the gospel by teaching salvation by "grace plus law, faith plus works." :(
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Exactly why the number is plenteous that comes before the LORD claiming JESUS as LORD and expecting to ENTER the kingdom based UPON the many wonderful works they have done in the name of JESUS.........

The above is the same dogma peddled by many on this site and yet they fail to see or acknowledge this simple truth..............bad day coming for many
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#83,269
Apr 7, 2014
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#83,269
dcontroversal said:
Exactly why the number is plenteous that comes before the LORD claiming JESUS as LORD and expecting to ENTER the kingdom based UPON the many wonderful works they have done in the name of JESUS.........

The above is the same dogma peddled by many on this site and yet they fail to see or acknowledge this simple truth..............bad day coming for many
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Like I have said numerous times, that salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works is not hard to understand. It's just hard for works-salvationists to ACCEPT. It's a shame that HUMAN PRIDE will not allow works-salvationists to trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith. :(
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#83,270
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
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#83,270
mailmandan said:
Like I have said numerous times, that salvation is by grace through faith and is not by works is not hard to understand. It's just hard for works-salvationists to ACCEPT. It's a shame that HUMAN PRIDE will not allow works-salvationists to trust in Jesus Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. Their hands are full of their works and they will not let go in order to receive Christ through faith. :(
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AMEN.............deceived and deceiving..........exactly what the one's that peddle a faith/works blend are and are doing....

Oh Foolish Galatians, who has BEWITCHED YOU....ANSWER ME THIS QUESTION.....HAVING BEGUN in the SPIRIT (by faith is indicated) are YOU NOW MADE COMPLETE (perfect) by the flesh (WORKS)

HE THEN goes on to CALL all who teach faith plus works DOUBLE CURSED and ALL that BELIEVE it are DECEIVED and FOOLS...........
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#83,271
#83,271
safswan said:
Awful sounding and quite contrary to what Jesus said:

"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."(John 8:31,32)
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Really my words are awful.........okay read your scripture verse here who is Jesus talking to?

What point in time is He stating this to the Jews?
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#83,273
#83,273
lightbearer said:
Who is the Judge that we are born again? That we are justified and regenerated. That we have repented.

GOD or us?
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Why would God judge who is born again, when it is by his Spirit that we are born again.

The question is a non starter.
 
Chester

Chester

Senior Member
#83,274
May 23, 2016
4,320
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#83,274
safswan said:
Awful sounding and quite contrary to what Jesus said:

"Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free."(John 8:31,32)
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The context of this verse in John 8 is a group of Jews who believed that Jesus said was true, but they did not believe "into" (Greek "eis") Jesus. By the end of the chapter Jesus very clearly defines them as outside of being his followers.

It is not those who just say that what Jesus says is true that are his disciples, but it is those who continue in what he said and taught.
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#83,275
Dec 12, 2013
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#83,275
UnderGrace said:
Not really, where is that in scripture?
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AMEN.....last time I checked Jesus is the source of faith....HE begins it, finishes it and completes it.................and the KICKER....JESUS is GOD..........notice how the workers for and law keepers divide JESUS and GOD......
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#83,276
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#83,276
UnderGrace said:
Why would God judge who is born again, when it is by his Spirit that we are born again.

The question is a non starter.
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AMEN....the lost are judged......we are rewarded......

Bema seat of Christ for the saved

Great White Throne judgment for the lost
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

Banned
#83,277
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
#83,277
Chester said:
The context of this verse in John 8 is a group of Jews who believed that Jesus said was true, but they did not believe "into" (Greek "eis") Jesus. By the end of the chapter Jesus very clearly defines them as outside of being his followers.

It is not those who just say that what Jesus says is true that are his disciples, but it is those who continue in what he said and taught.
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AMEN......saved makes one a SON.........discipleship is a process of growth and maturity after ONE has been saved....such elementary truth and yet conflated and missed by most!
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#83,278
#83,278
Chester said:
The context of this verse in John 8 is a group of Jews who believed that Jesus said was true, but they did not believe "into" (Greek "eis") Jesus. By the end of the chapter Jesus very clearly defines them as outside of being his followers.

It is not those who just say that what Jesus says is true that are his disciples, but it is those who continue in what he said and taught.
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Seriously why does everyone read bad news into Jesus words like there was no hope.

It is very clear what He stating, He was not finished yet, He had not gone to the cross, but if they keep believing in Him, and believe HIs words they would be born again and set free......Jesus is always revealing the cross to the Jews and telling them to continue believing in His work to ultimate salvation.

He is talking to a specific group of people, the message is for them first, we need to read it from that lens, otherwise you end up with this nonsense of a person loosing their salvation because they are not continuing in His word.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#83,279
#83,279
dcontroversal said:
AMEN......saved makes one a SON.........discipleship is a process of growth and maturity after ONE has been saved....such elementary truth and yet conflated and missed by most!
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I think Chester is making a case for a person loosing their salvation btw...
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#83,280
#83,280
Chester said:
It is not those who just say that what Jesus says is true that are his disciples, but it is those who continue in what he said and taught.
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Okay, so we are saved by being good followers?
 
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