The harlot in revelation that rides the beast

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Rapturechris

Rapturechris

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The book of Revelation in the Bible.

Every time I read revelation I pray the lord will give me greater insight into it and help me understand things a bit clearer.
The way I understand Revelation is God supernaturally took John in the Spirit and showed before, now and later on from his time.

Since I became a Christian 22 years ago the Book fascinated me. Some things are to be taken literally and others symbolically.
What I’ve come to understand is no one will ever be able to completely unjumble it because simply they were not John taken up in the Spirit.

The argument then is why would God give us a Revelation clouded in possibilities and mysteries that need to be unravelled?
My belief is when the end is very near people will understand the book more clearly and see John revelations panning out of the symbolic language he uses.

What I wanted to address today is Chapter 17, 18, 19 of the book into a quick insight.
I’ve heard a lot of fundamental groups call the prostitute of Babylon the Catholic Church.

Buts it’s not. A real closer look at those chapters talks about a prostitute that’s been around since the dawn of time.
Many prophets has it killed and soaked the world its harlotries.

John uses quite a good vivid picture for her.
John also calls the bride of Christ his Church.

So who is this prostitute? Simply she is everything the Church is not.
She represents everything that God's bride will not be. She is the wickedness of the world from the beginning. She is the antichrist Spirit that tempted eve in the garden, tempted Cain to kill able, and all wickedness since the dawn of time. She is the arch rival of Gods bride the Church.

She is the sin that is worshipped and put before the lord. She rides the devil since the dawn of time and she is used to kill anything that is good.

Many false Prophets have come and gone since creation. The devil has used her for destruction of God’s creation.
Coming to the end of this world no doubt will the devil use her to commit worse atrocities! Whether to raise up the man of destruction in the flesh and allow her to commit her lasts acts of ultimate evil with a false prophet in the flesh is all on the table.

The good news is God brings his people out of her. We were once engulfed in her acts of evil and disobedience only to be saved. Justified...Sanctified and soon to be glorified.

All those left behind with her will face eternal destruction.
Jesus is good thanks be to God.

Blessings to you.
 

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tanakh

tanakh

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The Harlot is a symbol of apostate Israel. She is dressed in a parody of a High Priest and rides the Beast which is the Roman Empire.
In Revelation she is the opposite of the new Jerusalem and is the only nation in the OT to be called a Harlot
 
A

Adstar

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Buts it’s not. A real closer look at those chapters talks about a prostitute that’s been around since the dawn of time.
Click to expand...
Why make this statement and not quote the scripture in question that gives support for this statement?
 
PennEd

PennEd

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Israel is NOT drunk on the Blood of the Saints! The harlot is not Israel.

The same that is drunk on the Blood of the Saints, got absolutely plastered on the Blood of the Jews throughout history.

The harlot is the false Church.
 
Milee777

Milee777

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PennEd said:
Israel is NOT drunk on the Blood of the Saints! The harlot is not Israel.

The same that is drunk on the Blood of the Saints, got absolutely plastered on the Blood of the Jews throughout history.

The harlot is the false Church.
Click to expand...
define false Church...u see i feel i am also false.
 
Milee777

Milee777

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maybe am too young to enter this discussion...or not the right person to join in i think...
its a scary place
 
tanakh

tanakh

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PennEd said:
Israel is NOT drunk on the Blood of the Saints! The harlot is not Israel.

The same that is drunk on the Blood of the Saints, got absolutely plastered on the Blood of the Jews throughout history.

The harlot is the false Church.
Click to expand...
When Revelation was written it was addressed to first century Churches who knew nothing about the coming two thousand years
of history only what they experienced then. If you read Acts and Paul's letters who is it that is persecuting the Church? Also
Jesus predicted that the unbelieving Jews of his generation would receive vengeance for the blood spilled of every righteous
person from Abel to Zechariah. This happened between AD68 and AD 72 and reached its climax in AD70 The saints are not just Christians they are the Prophets and righteous people spoken of throughout the scriptures. Read Ezekiel and the other prophets to see
how God saw apostate Israel What you are doing is what many others tend to do and that is impose 21st century interpretations on 1st century events and people.
 
PennEd

PennEd

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Apr 22, 2013
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tanakh said:
When Revelation was written it was addressed to first century Churches who knew nothing about the coming two thousand years
of history only what they experienced then. If you read Acts and Paul's letters who is it that is persecuting the Church? Also
Jesus predicted that the unbelieving Jews of his generation would receive vengeance for the blood spilled of every righteous
person from Abel to Zechariah. This happened between AD68 and AD 72 and reached its climax in AD70 The saints are not just Christians they are the Prophets and righteous people spoken of throughout the scriptures. Read Ezekiel and the other prophets to see
how God saw apostate Israel What you are doing is what many others tend to do and that is impose 21st century interpretations on 1st century events and people.
Click to expand...

i understand those with an amillennial, preterist view want to make this somehow fit their view. At it's heart, it remains an antisemetic view.

There are many reasons why it doesn't work, such as John being astonished at who this woman was. John knew fully what Jesus said, and the Scriptures said about the OT Jews persecuting the prophets. There is no reason for him to be astonished. He is astonished that the Church had become so corrupted as to kill true Christians.

18 And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.”

When did Jerusalem reign over the kings of the Earth?
 
A

Adstar

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Milee777 said:
define false Church...u see i feel i am also false.
Click to expand...
Why do you feel you are false?

Do you believe the teachings of Jesus?

Do you trust that the Atonement of Jesus obtains forgiveness for all your sins?

A false church will teach doctrines in rebellion against the teachings of Jesus..
A false church will teach that you must do more then trust in the Atonement of Jesus to be saved..
 
Milee777

Milee777

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Adstar said:
Why do you feel you are false?

Do you believe the teachings of Jesus?

Do you trust that the Atonement of Jesus obtains forgiveness for all your sins?

A false church will teach doctrines in rebellion against the teachings of Jesus..
A false church will teach that you must do more then trust in the Atonement of Jesus to be saved..
Click to expand...
i have wrestled over Scriptures for myself ...there was a time when i found myself repeatedly indulging in sinning..and it became habitual...the inner me was saying 'don't sin the next time...make strategies not to sin...make sure you don't sin'...and yet the next time i felt tempted to sin , i indulged in sinning...the more i thought not to sin, the more did i want to sin...it was a dreadful battle....and so there were ups and downs for me in the past 3 years of this struggle...the ups when i received encouragement from God that He is still by my side...the downs when i still kept sinning. This whole struggle slowly ...dragged me down to depression...pointlessness and futility in living this life. On the 11th of this month , i was diagnosed of depression , and put on antidepressants. Now before you say anything about my antidepressants let me tell you...there were some online Christians who were telling me not to take them...and i refused to listen to my own dad who is a physician and took their advise and refused to take the meds but what....no improvement...i had panicky sensations , felt tremendous anxiety . Now i had listened to them and finally talked to a counsellor and am in these meds....panic has come down and there is some improvement but depression still persists ... i mean sometimes it is too much...and it is triggered only when i think about Sprituality , life , the futility of living, eternity...when questions about life seep into my mind...when i feel so helpless and feel my contribution to save humanity is so less...and that everything seems out of control and unbalanced...depression seeps in. Actually there might be better words in the dictionary to describe my feelings better.
God has encouraged me in my journey and i can say His encouragements might be the very reason i am alive ...breathing...and not in despair. But like many other times...i come to a stand still like i currently feel i am..in a state of confusion ...dont know where to go...dont know who is right. Yeah you might ask me to go and read my Bible...but man...oh my my...am fearing to do even that. The Bible has been the source of great encouragement to me in my life...the psalms...especially i remember how God spoke to me through psalm 116 one night. Yea...but i guess its my depression that just deprives me of the interest to pursue anymore , to go on anymore....also the confusions , the different opinions , the fact that no one has even arrived at a conclusion regarding certain things...may be the reason... ''may be''... i donno the exact etiology. You see , this is the confusion..i dont even know the exact cause of my plight.
 
PennEd

PennEd

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Milee777 said:
i have wrestled over Scriptures for myself ...there was a time when i found myself repeatedly indulging in sinning..and it became habitual...the inner me was saying 'don't sin the next time...make strategies not to sin...make sure you don't sin'...and yet the next time i felt tempted to sin , i indulged in sinning...the more i thought not to sin, the more did i want to sin...it was a dreadful battle....and so there were ups and downs for me in the past 3 years of this struggle...the ups when i received encouragement from God that He is still by my side...the downs when i still kept sinning. This whole struggle slowly ...dragged me down to depression...pointlessness and futility in living this life. On the 11th of this month , i was diagnosed of depression , and put on antidepressants. Now before you say anything about my antidepressants let me tell you...there were some online Christians who were telling me not to take them...and i refused to listen to my own dad who is a physician and took their advise and refused to take the meds but what....no improvement...i had panicky sensations , felt tremendous anxiety . Now i had listened to them and finally talked to a counsellor and am in these meds....panic has come down and there is some improvement but depression still persists ... i mean sometimes it is too much...and it is triggered only when i think about Sprituality , life , the futility of living, eternity...when questions about life seep into my mind...when i feel so helpless and feel my contribution to save humanity is so less...and that everything seems out of control and unbalanced...depression seeps in. Actually there might be better words in the dictionary to describe my feelings better.
God has encouraged me in my journey and i can say His encouragements might be the very reason i am alive ...breathing...and not in despair. But like many other times...i come to a stand still like i currently feel i am..in a state of confusion ...dont know where to go...dont know who is right. Yeah you might ask me to go and read my Bible...but man...oh my my...am fearing to do even that. The Bible has been the source of great encouragement to me in my life...the psalms...especially i remember how God spoke to me through psalm 116 one night. Yea...but i guess its my depression that just deprives me of the interest to pursue anymore , to go on anymore....also the confusions , the different opinions , the fact that no one has even arrived at a conclusion regarding certain things...may be the reason... ''may be''... i donno the exact etiology. You see , this is the confusion..i dont even know the exact cause of my plight.
Click to expand...

Thank you for trusting us with your struggle, pain, and confusion sister.

I can tell you I have virtually an identical story.

Understand there are 3 forces opposing you now that you are Christ's, a Child of the one True King;

1. The world, and by that I mean the worldly system that tries to convince and tell you how to think, what to desire, and IT'S version of right and wrong.

2. Your flesh. By that I mean that even though you ARE a born again Child of God, and your old self (flesh) that desires EXACTLY opposite what your NEW, God given heart desires, it tries to tell you that it is still alive and you need to feed it.

3. Satan. He hates you. He knows you are a Child of God, so now he attacks you by making you focus on the 1st two forces, and the sins you commit. Whispering evil in your ears, things like " Ha!! You call yourself a Christian!? LOOK at the things you did and continue to do!" He also does this to make you an ineffective witness for Christ.

DON'T believe him. Walking in the understanding that ALL of the sins you have committed, or will commit, have been paid for by the Blood of Christ. Something counter-intuitive to human thought happened to me when, by revelation from the Holy Spirit, this clicked with me.

All my struggling and promising God to not sin the same sin over and over again, only to fail again and again, only resulted in MORE sin, and guilt, and depression.

Now, NOT struggling, and simply believing and understanding that IT IS FINISHED, ALL my sins were paid for, has resulted in FAAAR less sin, and sins that had a hold of me for yrs, no longer do. I still stumble and sin, and likely will til I'm in the glorified, incorruptible body the Lord will give me, but there no longer is a stronghold.

I pray in Jesus Name that this revelation will come to you.
Be Blessed!
 
tanakh

tanakh

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PennEd said:
i understand those with an amillennial, preterist view want to make this somehow fit their view. At it's heart, it remains an antisemetic view.

There are many reasons why it doesn't work, such as John being astonished at who this woman was. John knew fully what Jesus said, and the Scriptures said about the OT Jews persecuting the prophets. There is no reason for him to be astonished. He is astonished that the Church had become so corrupted as to kill true Christians.

18 And the woman whom you saw is that great city which reigns over the kings of the earth.”

When did Jerusalem reign over the kings of the Earth?
Click to expand...

It appears that anyone who holds a view different from yourself is according to your understanding anti semitic. Read Mathew 23 is Jesus being anti semitic? You talk about what Jews have suffered for the past two thousand years I agree that they have undergone much by those who claim to be Christian but if you read Deuteronomy 28 and study the history of Israels relationship with God you will see why. Was God being anti semitic?

If you had a vision of a Harlot riding a seven headed beast wouldn't you be astonished? I know I would be? If your explanation was correct how come the Harlot is dressed exactly like a Jewish High Priest right down to the plate on her forehead which a high priest wore with the inscription ''Holy unto the Lord'' written on it? In Revelation we are told of a City where the Lord was crucified and it is called Sodom and Egypt. Those places are used to symbolise Jerusalem. Why is it so difficult taking everything else written in the Bible to conclude that Babylon is also a symbol of apostate Jerusalem?

For Jerusalem reigning over the kings of the Earth you need to study the career of Solomon and the many materials he obtained from surrounding nations. Many of which are included in the list of merchant goods obtained by Babylon in Revelation Also the many foreign wives and concubines he had together with their idols and pagan practices. Solomon is noted for his wisdom but it ran out for him by the end of his reign.

The visions in Revelation are largely based on events and passages in the OT they appear in the form of symbols. The Pentateuch and the book of Ezekiel are used extensively in Revelation along with other parts of the OT
 
ProphetExcalibur

ProphetExcalibur

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tanakh said:
It appears that anyone who holds a view different from yourself is according to your understanding anti semitic. Read Mathew 23 is Jesus being anti semitic? You talk about what Jews have suffered for the past two thousand years I agree that they have undergone much by those who claim to be Christian but if you read Deuteronomy 28 and study the history of Israels relationship with God you will see why. Was God being anti semitic?

If you had a vision of a Harlot riding a seven headed beast wouldn't you be astonished? I know I would be? If your explanation was correct how come the Harlot is dressed exactly like a Jewish High Priest right down to the plate on her forehead which a high priest wore with the inscription ''Holy unto the Lord'' written on it? In Revelation we are told of a City where the Lord was crucified and it is called Sodom and Egypt. Those places are used to symbolise Jerusalem. Why is it so difficult taking everything else written in the Bible to conclude that Babylon is also a symbol of apostate Jerusalem?

For Jerusalem reigning over the kings of the Earth you need to study the career of Solomon and the many materials he obtained from surrounding nations. Many of which are included in the list of merchant goods obtained by Babylon in Revelation Also the many foreign wives and concubines he had together with their idols and pagan practices. Solomon is noted for his wisdom but it ran out for him by the end of his reign.

The visions in Revelation are largely based on events and passages in the OT they appear in the form of symbols. The Pentateuch and the book of Ezekiel are used extensively in Revelation along with other parts of the OT
Click to expand...
That's a good word 👍 brother, a lot of the folks in here r to smart for their own good! Have u ever read the book... the days of vengeance.....by David Chilton? A 700 pp exposition of the book of Revelation, using the Old Testament to interrupt almost the entire thing. TKS 😋
 
tanakh

tanakh

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ProphetExcalibur said:
That's a good word 👍 brother, a lot of the folks in here r to smart for their own good! Have u ever read the book... the days of vengeance.....by David Chilton? A 700 pp exposition of the book of Revelation, using the Old Testament to interrupt almost the entire thing. TKS 😋
Click to expand...
Thanks for the post. I have a free down loaded a copy of Days of Vengeance and am currently ploughing through it having spent a long time printing the 700 plus pages into a binder crazy fool that I am!!. I also have copies of Paradise Restored and The Great Tribulation
which are two of his earlier books.

Anyone interested can obtain these free of charge on the web. David Chiltern Died in 1997 and left us this great legacy.

I also stumbled across a condensed form of Days of Vengeance called The Book of Revelation Explained by Kevin Davis which can be bought for a reasonable price on Amazon. Kevin Davis met David Chiltern who gave him his approval for the book.
 
PennEd

PennEd

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Apr 22, 2013
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tanakh said:
It appears that anyone who holds a view different from yourself is according to your understanding anti semitic. Read Mathew 23 is Jesus being anti semitic? You talk about what Jews have suffered for the past two thousand years I agree that they have undergone much by those who claim to be Christian but if you read Deuteronomy 28 and study the history of Israels relationship with God you will see why. Was God being anti semitic?

If you had a vision of a Harlot riding a seven headed beast wouldn't you be astonished? I know I would be? If your explanation was correct how come the Harlot is dressed exactly like a Jewish High Priest right down to the plate on her forehead which a high priest wore with the inscription ''Holy unto the Lord'' written on it? In Revelation we are told of a City where the Lord was crucified and it is called Sodom and Egypt. Those places are used to symbolise Jerusalem. Why is it so difficult taking everything else written in the Bible to conclude that Babylon is also a symbol of apostate Jerusalem?

For Jerusalem reigning over the kings of the Earth you need to study the career of Solomon and the many materials he obtained from surrounding nations. Many of which are included in the list of merchant goods obtained by Babylon in Revelation Also the many foreign wives and concubines he had together with their idols and pagan practices. Solomon is noted for his wisdom but it ran out for him by the end of his reign.

The visions in Revelation are largely based on events and passages in the OT they appear in the form of symbols. The Pentateuch and the book of Ezekiel are used extensively in Revelation along with other parts of the OT
Click to expand...
Yeah. I do hold that those with an amillennial, preterist view, at the core are anti semites.

I've tangled with those doctrines before, so I have no illusions of convincing those who hold them of their error.

My 1st post was really intended for those that are unsure or confused. I'd highly recommend Dave Hunt's "A woman rides the beast" if they are interested in a very thorough examination of this issue. Here is a cursory look at his book.

 
A

Adstar

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Jul 24, 2016
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Milee777 said:
i have wrestled over Scriptures for myself ...there was a time when i found myself repeatedly indulging in sinning..and it became habitual...the inner me was saying 'don't sin the next time...make strategies not to sin...make sure you don't sin'...and yet the next time i felt tempted to sin , i indulged in sinning...the more i thought not to sin, the more did i want to sin...it was a dreadful battle....and so there were ups and downs for me in the past 3 years of this struggle...the ups when i received encouragement from God that He is still by my side...the downs when i still kept sinning. This whole struggle slowly ...dragged me down to depression...pointlessness and futility in living this life. On the 11th of this month , i was diagnosed of depression , and put on antidepressants. Now before you say anything about my antidepressants let me tell you...there were some online Christians who were telling me not to take them...and i refused to listen to my own dad who is a physician and took their advise and refused to take the meds but what....no improvement...i had panicky sensations , felt tremendous anxiety . Now i had listened to them and finally talked to a counsellor and am in these meds....panic has come down and there is some improvement but depression still persists ... i mean sometimes it is too much...and it is triggered only when i think about Sprituality , life , the futility of living, eternity...when questions about life seep into my mind...when i feel so helpless and feel my contribution to save humanity is so less...and that everything seems out of control and unbalanced...depression seeps in. Actually there might be better words in the dictionary to describe my feelings better.
God has encouraged me in my journey and i can say His encouragements might be the very reason i am alive ...breathing...and not in despair. But like many other times...i come to a stand still like i currently feel i am..in a state of confusion ...dont know where to go...dont know who is right. Yeah you might ask me to go and read my Bible...but man...oh my my...am fearing to do even that. The Bible has been the source of great encouragement to me in my life...the psalms...especially i remember how God spoke to me through psalm 116 one night. Yea...but i guess its my depression that just deprives me of the interest to pursue anymore , to go on anymore....also the confusions , the different opinions , the fact that no one has even arrived at a conclusion regarding certain things...may be the reason... ''may be''... i donno the exact etiology. You see , this is the confusion..i dont even know the exact cause of my plight.
Click to expand...
Well i God knows the exact cause of your plight..

From reading your post i can only share a possibility..

From your post it seems you fell into depression and anxiety when you could not cease sinning in your life..
So from that i get the thought that you have depression from a sense of failure..

And that leads me to think that you obtained an expectation ( from where i have no idea ) that you should be able to achieve a sinless state of existence in your life ,, Or that God would cause you to achieve a sinless state of existence in your life..

Now i could be totally wrong with my thoughts and conclusions.. I am just a human being going on the information provided in your post..

What i can say is that as a human being i have never lived a sinless life and i do not expect to live a sinless life in this life in my human body.. I do however look forward to the resurrection when God will transform me into a perfect sinless being..

Also you seem to be a person who wants to be lead by other human beings.. You get fear and uncertainty because different people say different things about doctrines and God.. As for me i never get agitated or personally troubled when i read or hear contrary doctrines being put forward by different people.. I take what ever i hear or read and take it to God and test it against His Word.. I don't believe anything any person tells me no matter what kind of religious title they have until i test it against the holy Bible.. God is the Authority not people..

So i cannot see anywhere in your post that would lead me to think you are bejond salvation.. The only worry i have is that you may have the belief that you must strive to attain a sinless life and thus you do not believe that salvation is granted as a gift to unworthy humans as a loving gift from God to all who will believe Him and trust in the Atonement God has provided for us ???
 
Milee777

Milee777

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#18
Dec 24, 2018
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Adstar said:
Well i God knows the exact cause of your plight..

From reading your post i can only share a possibility..

From your post it seems you fell into depression and anxiety when you could not cease sinning in your life..
So from that i get the thought that you have depression from a sense of failure..

And that leads me to think that you obtained an expectation ( from where i have no idea ) that you should be able to achieve a sinless state of existence in your life ,, Or that God would cause you to achieve a sinless state of existence in your life..

Now i could be totally wrong with my thoughts and conclusions.. I am just a human being going on the information provided in your post..

What i can say is that as a human being i have never lived a sinless life and i do not expect to live a sinless life in this life in my human body.. I do however look forward to the resurrection when God will transform me into a perfect sinless being..

Also you seem to be a person who wants to be lead by other human beings.. You get fear and uncertainty because different people say different things about doctrines and God.. As for me i never get agitated or personally troubled when i read or hear contrary doctrines being put forward by different people.. I take what ever i hear or read and take it to God and test it against His Word.. I don't believe anything any person tells me no matter what kind of religious title they have until i test it against the holy Bible.. God is the Authority not people..

So i cannot see anywhere in your post that would lead me to think you are bejond salvation.. The only worry i have is that you may have the belief that you must strive to attain a sinless life and thus you do not believe that salvation is granted as a gift to unworthy humans as a loving gift from God to all who will believe Him and trust in the Atonement God has provided for us ???
Click to expand...
Very well ...you are right. i trusted any human being with the title 'Christian' when i was in a sinful state. And yes there were some sources where i got the expectation that i need to live a sinless life or else hell awaits me...and the source was YouTube. Atleast 3 people were claiming to be living a sinless life (some videos were about -people with tattoos , soldiers, those who listen to pop music going to hell) and i went to such videos because of my sinning repeatedly and wanting to stop. I sensed great toxicity in these videos.It affected me mentally a lot ...and i felt panicky... a sense of urgency...a sense of terror....abandonment by God....but thanks be to God ...in between these my pastor used to text me great encouragements on whatsapp. It used to bring great joy to mee...great relief. And God also was encouraging me that He had not left me alone as certain people made me to believe. It was a dark phase and took me a long time to realize that these people weren't true. From then it has been a hard time trusting just anyone you see. Its hard to describe in words the ache of my heart at that time. But i think i needed to go through all that....or else i would easily be lead by wolves in the later days. I have slowly developed an attitude of not getting personally troubled or panicked...and be steady and that's one reason i could boldly come to this website. Am also able to ask questions and i don't expect everyone to be right. In a way am thankful for this achy experience.
 
Milee777

Milee777

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Yes , your last sentence...my current struggle is the Scriptural basis for me struggling to believe...
the verse number and chapters i dont remember..i havent memoriszed ..but i can search and quote each one if need be.
 
PennEd

PennEd

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Milee777 said:
Yes , your last sentence...my current struggle is the Scriptural basis for me struggling to believe...
the verse number and chapters i dont remember..i havent memoriszed ..but i can search and quote each one if need be.
Click to expand...

This man's reply to Jesus seems to be a contradiction. But Jesus did not rebuke him for his wavering faith.

Mark 9:23-25 New King James Version (NKJV)
23 Jesus said to him, “If[a] you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes.”

24 Immediately the father of the child cried out and said with tears, “Lord, I believe; help my unbelief!”

25 When Jesus saw that the people came running together, He rebuked the unclean spirit, saying to it, “Deaf and dumb spirit, I command you, come out of him and enter him no more!”
 
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