I've lost faith in the church

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preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Senior Member
#22
Dec 28, 2016
9,171
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#22
Dont you worry HistoryPrincess, justice is coming:

Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was thrown into the sea and gathered fish of every kind.
When it was full, men drew it ashore and sat down and sorted the good into containers but threw away the bad. So it will be at the close of the age. The angels will come out and separate the evil from the righteous and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. -- Matthew 13:47-50.

Now, let's not be presumptuous and think we ourselves are exempt, while damning others in a generalized manner, but examine ourselves.
 
CharliRenee

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
#23
Nov 4, 2014
6,693
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#23
preacher4truth said:
Hmmmm..."If we all loved as we were called we wouldnt need His grace."

Gotta totally disagree with you on that one. Wow.
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I believe that we need Him to have a softened heart to love Him with all our hearts and minds and to love one another as ourselves. I think His ultimate sacrifice of Grace bring us to Himself. Am I way off? I am open to correction.
 
H

HistoryPrincess

Senior Member
#24
Feb 20, 2016
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#24
And this is why I love the ending to The Last Battle from the Chronicles of Narnia.

Emeth is let into Aslan's Country (Heaven) because even though he was doing good things in the name of Tash, they were still good things regardless.

Aslan and Tash are complete opposites to the point where good things done in Tash's name are really done in Aslan's name, and bad things done in Aslan's name are really done in the name of Tash.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#25
#25
HistoryPrincess said:
Exactly. People need to be taught that if they mess up, it's on them. If they possess even an ounce of conscience, their missteps will haunt them. Their guilt will gnaw at them. No shortcuts to (self-)forgiveness exist.

I also have posted this once before, but I'll do it again here.

Someone answer this question for me. I will not accept platitudes or easy answers.

Of all the vile, despicable, wretched, evil acts that humankind can commit: murder, rape, torture, slavery, genocide, and child abuse, why exactly is blasphemy considered the ONLY unforgivable sin?

Why exactly is it that out of all the horrible ACTIONS that humans can commit, only WORDS are considered unforgivable?

Murder your fellow man? No problem. Just believe and you'll be forgiven.

Rape a woman? No problem. Just believe and you'll be forgiven.

Rape a child? No problem. Just believe and you'll be forgiven.

Torture a child? No problem. Just believe and you'll be forgiven.

Slaughter an entire people? No problem. Just believe and you'll be forgiven.

Enslave an entire population? No problem. Just believe and you'll be forgiven.

Deny God's existence? UNFORGIVABLE!!! YOU ARE DAMNED FOR ALL ETERNITY AND NO AMOUNT OF BELIEF OR PRAYER WILL SAVE YOU FROM GOD'S WRATH!!!

Why exactly is blasphemy the ONE unforgivable sin? I'm not asking the Bible, I'm asking YOU! I'm asking you reader, to THINK!
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Wow, this is a very troubling post.o_O

Do you think God had to step into this mess because it is was all good?
 
H

HistoryPrincess

Senior Member
#26
Feb 20, 2016
1,154
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#26
With that in mind, it's easy to see why Rishda Tarkaan is sent away with Tash.

He claimed not to believe in Tash or Aslan, yet he still summoned Tash in a ritual. He claimed that Aslan and Tash were one in the same with the intention of using that excuse to conquer Narnia. And when he found out Tash was real, he sought to placate him by putting as many Narnians into the stable as possible (including children), and burn them alive as an offering to Tash.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#27
#27
HistoryPrincess said:
Let me start this off by saying I have NOT lost my faith in God. But I have lost faith in the institution of the church.

I don't care if the church is not perfect. I don't care that it's made up of sinners. I don't care about ANY of that nonsense! We are called to be DIFFERENT, to be BETTER! And if you can't even try, then don't bother showing up. It's one thing to cause spiritual discord, but when you do things like shaming victims and actively covering up abuse of even children...that is just unbelievable.

Church, this is a violent world, and if we want to represent Jesus to it, we need to start ACTING like him! That means there is no room for sin in your life, no matter all the grace and mercy you may receive. That means sticking up for the vulnerable. That means making would-be abusers squirm in their seats like the filth they are.

No one else is saying this, so I am. I'm not afraid to tell it like it is and how it should be. I don't care if you say you're a Christian. SHOW me that you are, and then I'll believe you.
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Now that I have recovered.

institution of the church.
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.......is not the ecclesia,

So please, do not lump the sins of man made institutions with The Redeemed, Truly Born Again Body of Jesus the Christ
 
CharliRenee

CharliRenee

Member
Staff member
#28
Nov 4, 2014
6,693
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#28
HistoryPrincess said:
Let me start this off by saying I have NOT lost my faith in God. But I have lost faith in the institution of the church.

I don't care if the church is not perfect. I don't care that it's made up of sinners. I don't care about ANY of that nonsense! We are called to be DIFFERENT, to be BETTER! And if you can't even try, then don't bother showing up. It's one thing to cause spiritual discord, but when you do things like shaming victims and actively covering up abuse of even children...that is just unbelievable.

Church, this is a violent world, and if we want to represent Jesus to it, we need to start ACTING like him! That means there is no room for sin in your life, no matter all the grace and mercy you may receive. That means sticking up for the vulnerable. That means making would-be abusers squirm in their seats like the filth they are.

No one else is saying this, so I am. I'm not afraid to tell it like it is and how it should be. I don't care if you say you're a Christian. SHOW me that you are, and then I'll believe you.
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What you have described going on in the church shows me just how badly we need Him. I am so glad that you still have faith in Him, even when people have let you down. Humans break our hearts, He mends them. We should all kinds of things, but even on my best days, I need His strength perfected in my weakness. I read your hurt and frustration and I am so sorry. Perhaps, you can go to a church leader and talk to him about it or maybe find a new church. Either way, it sounds the church needs prayers.
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#29
Mar 13, 2014
42,571
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#29
HistoryPrincess said:
I'm just one person, and half the church population won't listen to me because I'm a woman, and in the eyes of many church people, a woman's preaching is not legit.
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Consider the SDA. They don't frown on woman preaching. Very legit.
 
U

UnderGrace

Guest
#31
#31
tourist said:
Consider the SDA. They don't frown on woman preaching. Very legit.
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Yes, the law can work on keeping people in line much of the time....the SDA are very good law followers
 
maxwel

maxwel

Senior Member
#32
Apr 18, 2013
9,526
2,608
113
#32
HistoryPrincess said:
Let me start this off by saying I have NOT lost my faith in God. But I have lost faith in the institution of the church.

I don't care if the church is not perfect. I don't care that it's made up of sinners. I don't care about ANY of that nonsense! We are called to be DIFFERENT, to be BETTER! And if you can't even try, then don't bother showing up. It's one thing to cause spiritual discord, but when you do things like shaming victims and actively covering up abuse of even children...that is just unbelievable.

Church, this is a violent world, and if we want to represent Jesus to it, we need to start ACTING like him! That means there is no room for sin in your life, no matter all the grace and mercy you may receive. That means sticking up for the vulnerable. That means making would-be abusers squirm in their seats like the filth they are.

No one else is saying this, so I am. I'm not afraid to tell it like it is and how it should be. I don't care if you say you're a Christian. SHOW me that you are, and then I'll believe you.
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NEWS FORUM

I understand that you're upset, but this is the News Forum.
You probably posted here by mistake?

I'm sure you didn't just get upset and then decide your personal feelings constituted international news... right?


If you're upset about some particular thing in the news, then you should address that news item.
If you posted in this forum by mistake, you might want to ask the mods to move this to a more appropriate forum.
..
 
J

Jopie

Member
#33
Jan 20, 2019
36
15
8
#33
HistoryPrincess said:
Let me start this off by saying I have NOT lost my faith in God. But I have lost faith in the institution of the church.

I don't care if the church is not perfect. I don't care that it's made up of sinners. I don't care about ANY of that nonsense! We are called to be DIFFERENT, to be BETTER! And if you can't even try, then don't bother showing up. It's one thing to cause spiritual discord, but when you do things like shaming victims and actively covering up abuse of even children...that is just unbelievable.

Church, this is a violent world, and if we want to represent Jesus to it, we need to start ACTING like him! That means there is no room for sin in your life, no matter all the grace and mercy you may receive. That means sticking up for the vulnerable. That means making would-be abusers squirm in their seats like the filth they are.

No one else is saying this, so I am. I'm not afraid to tell it like it is and how it should be. I don't care if you say you're a Christian. SHOW me that you are, and then I'll believe you.
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Glad I'm not the only one. It's safer to go to a bar than to a church. Sociopaths are protected because they are so pitiful and they can make victim after victim and the victim shouldn't gossip and just forgive. I will try one other church with only women and 3 married men. If that's no good either, you won't see me in church again.
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#34
Mar 13, 2014
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#34
CharliRenee said:
Church, is the body of Christ. If we all loved as we were called, we wouldn't need His Grace. I think humility and mercy are attributes of His that we, each and everyone of us, can all work more on.
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I believed that your estimation has a profound element of truth. Of course, just having the attribute that you mentioned would in itself require grace from God. Seeing as it would be seemingly life-long process to love others as God loves us grace would still be needed, probably in copious qualities. Your spirituality and love of God is shown in each post that you carefully write and I have learned a lot that is now useful in my own spiritual walk with the Lord.
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#35
Mar 13, 2014
42,571
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#35
HistoryPrincess said:
Like I said, there's a difference between needing grace and being utterly depraved. Not all sin is equal.

And I'm tired of people telling other people that if we "bash" the church it's like "bashing" someone's wife. BS. I'm gonna tell a man if his wife is cheating on him and ruining other people's lives and prostituting herself.
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Bashing the church is a corporate response, bashing someone's wife is a personal response. These are two separate things. I tend to agree with you, and particularly about not all sin is equally grievous to the Lord.
 
J

Jopie

Member
#36
Jan 20, 2019
36
15
8
#36
CharliRenee said:
I believe that we need Him to have a softened heart to love Him with all our hearts and minds and to love one another as ourselves. I think His ultimate sacrifice of Grace bring us to Himself. Am I way off? I am open to correction.
Click to expand...
That's what they all do and wolves creep in and abuse them, but you gotta love unrepentant wolves, sheep don't get protected and get blamed. They have no shepherd in that church I'm talking about. It's getting destroyed from the inside out, cause you have to be sweet and forgiving.
 
H

HistoryPrincess

Senior Member
#37
Feb 20, 2016
1,154
266
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#37
Jopie said:
That's what they all do and wolves creep in and abuse them, but you gotta love unrepentant wolves, sheep don't get protected and get blamed. They have no shepherd in that church I'm talking about. It's getting destroyed from the inside out, cause you have to be sweet and forgiving.
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This is one reason why abuse is so widespread in churches. We have a very faulty understanding of forgiveness. The Bible is very clear that repentance must come first, no exceptions.
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

Well-known member
#38
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
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#38
tourist said:
Consider the SDA. They don't frown on woman preaching. Very legit.
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Here you are again, claiming to not be SDA, you got family members in there and now you are promoting this false cult to other people on a CHRISTIAN FORUM. Oy vey!

stoop
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

Well-known member
#39
Sep 8, 2018
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#39
I feel ya OP. But dont give up hope, find a real church. Its tough we are living in times of apostasy now. Because grace and love have been ABSOLUTELY turned into a license to sin and doctrine is no longer taught since its too divise we are dealing with a population of 'Christians' that know "dont judge" and "little wine for your stomach's sake" from the Bible.

Nothing like ranting on the apostasy, its great entertainment. If it wasnt for all the souls being damaged, I would never talk about these kind of apostate churches since I dont really consider them to be Christian churches. BUT because often times the people in the pews are just victims of the wolf behind the pulpit (the guy in his 50s trying to look 20, yeah that guy) I find it helpful to mention how REAL CHURCH is done. Many times the regular pew people WILL realize whats going on once you show them the SCRIPTURES and base your argument on that.
Show them: Bible says Y, your church is doing X.

If they still disagree after plain scripture is shown and say "but my pastor". Well most likely they're not even saved. If they were saved, they would ATLEAST say "Yeah, we are wrong there,but i'll stay anyway." Atleast ACKNOWLEDGE the fact of what the Bible is teaching. Majority of the people DO agree once shown the scriptures, the problem is , they aren't shown in their church.
 
H

HistoryPrincess

Senior Member
#40
Feb 20, 2016
1,154
266
83
#40
Hevosmies said:
I feel ya OP. But dont give up hope, find a real church. Its tough we are living in times of apostasy now. Because grace and love have been ABSOLUTELY turned into a license to sin and doctrine is no longer taught since its too divise we are dealing with a population of 'Christians' that know "dont judge" and "little wine for your stomach's sake" from the Bible.

Nothing like ranting on the apostasy, its great entertainment. If it wasnt for all the souls being damaged, I would never talk about these kind of apostate churches since I dont really consider them to be Christian churches. BUT because often times the people in the pews are just victims of the wolf behind the pulpit (the guy in his 50s trying to look 20, yeah that guy) I find it helpful to mention how REAL CHURCH is done. Many times the regular pew people WILL realize whats going on once you show them the SCRIPTURES and base your argument on that.
Show them: Bible says Y, your church is doing X.

If they still disagree after plain scripture is shown and say "but my pastor". Well most likely they're not even saved. If they were saved, they would ATLEAST say "Yeah, we are wrong there,but i'll stay anyway." Atleast ACKNOWLEDGE the fact of what the Bible is teaching. Majority of the people DO agree once shown the scriptures, the problem is , they aren't shown in their church.
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This hasn't happened to me personally. I'm just sick of the constant news of church scandals that's impossible to get away from.
 
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