The tower of Babel

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1ofthem

1ofthem

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#21
Mar 30, 2016
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#21
It is evident, from scripture, that the tower didn't get completed. To me, it is also evident as to why not. The people were working together to make a name for themselves. They weren't trying to glorify God and do his will. They were trying to glorify themselves and do their own will. God shut it down.

This goes to show that nothing that goes against God's will is ever going to truly prosper. Too me, it's not about just some big building or tower, but can be anything that we try to do just to make a name for ourselves that is against God's will. He can shut it down at anytime. Nothing that is built by mans own will (life plans, or whatever else) can prosper against God. So it's best to stay in his will and glorify him, or we could find ourselves left with nothing but rubble and confusion. Just my thoughts on it anyhow....
 
L

LPT

Guest
#22
#22
cv5 said:
BTW, based on my rather elevated and thorough study of the Flood and Biblical Chronology vs Genealogies, Skibas attempts at dating events and locating the Garden are utterly unfruitful. Unfortunately, date previous to Abraham are almost impossible to discern with precision. Also, the earth was utterly devastated and complegely terraformed during the course of the Flood, all locations and landmarks being obliterated.
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What’s your thoughts on the rivers that flowed from hence, current places and names compared to bible accounts?
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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#23
Jul 18, 2017
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#23
AmericanCrusader said:
I read in a book that the tower of Babel was successfully built and functional and God decided to attack them after they carried their idols into it and sat them in heaven. Can you please provide me with information about the tower?
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One cannot dissociate the tower of Babel from Babel (which means *confusion* and ultimately spiritual confusion through Mystery Babylon), nor Babel from Nimrod, the man who led the human race into serious idolatry.

GENESIS 10
8 And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth. 9 He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD. 10 And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar. 11 Out of that land went forth Asshur, and builded Nineveh, and the city Rehoboth, and Calah, 12 And Resen between Nineveh and Calah: the same is a great city.

When the Bible says that Nimrod was a mighty hunter, that meant more than an ordinary hunter of game. Nimrod was a hunter of souls, and was controlled by Satan. For an in-depth view of Nimrod, read The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop.

We should note the connections between Babel (in the land of Shinar or Babylon) and Nineveh in the land of Asshur (Assyria), both of which are now in Iraq. Babel became the first center of idolatry, and the erection of the tower of Babel (a ziggurat) was actually an attempt by idolatrous humans to build a center of worship to *the host of heaven* [the Zodiac, the stars and planets, and the evil angels (false gods) represented by those stars and symbolized by them]. Astrology and idolatry go hand in hand so this was also the center of astrology.

This tower was also a symbol of mortal man attempting to become God (reflecting the temptation presented to Eve by Satan). So human pride and human idolatry were elevated at the tower of Babel as we read here: And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. (Gen 11:4)

It would appear that all these rebellious and idolatrous people had a premonition that they would be scattered all over the earth, and given a multitude of languages, so that the one world religion of Satan could not be unified at that time. But in fact their fears became reality, and God scattered them all over the earth.

Therefore there is a connection between all false pagan religions, including those of Babylon, Egypt, Greece, Rome, India, China, etc. It all started at the tower of Babel. After the Antichrist takes control of the inhabitants of the earth (in the not too distant future), he will unify all these false religions into a one-world religion in which Satan and the Antichrist are worshiped through the Abomination of Desolation, which will be an animated idol within the future temple at Jerusalem (see Revelation 13).
 
Waggles

Waggles

Senior Member
#24
Sep 21, 2017
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South
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#24
Moses tells us that after the tower of Babel incident God withdraws his direct relationship of divine governship over
the world and appoints lesser gods/angels to rule over the new dispersed nations; BUT God will reserve for himself
one portion of land, one nation, one people to be = Israel.
Genesis 11 > The Tower of Babel
Genesis 12 > The Call of Abram
1 Now the Lord said to Abram, Go from your country and your kindred and your father’s house to the land that I will show you.
2 And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing.

Deuteronomy 32:
7 Remember the days of old;
consider the years of many generations;
ask your father, and he will show you,
your elders, and they will tell you.
8 When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance,
when he divided mankind,
he fixed the borders of the peoples
according to the number of the sons of God.
9 But the Lord’s portion is his people,
Jacob his allotted heritage.
 
M

Mancher

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#25
Jan 14, 2019
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#25
There is now evidence that the Tower of Babel was talking about a spoken language and a world written language.

One Language (written language) and one Speech (spoken language)
 
Dino246

Dino246

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#26
Jun 30, 2015
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#26
Mancher said:
There is now evidence that the Tower of Babel was talking about a spoken language and a world written language.

One Language (written language) and one Speech (spoken language)
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Welcome to CC, Mancher! :)

I have to poke fun at this idea, because, after all, the baked bricks and tar for mortar fit right in with the language idea. ;)
 
Dino246

Dino246

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#27
Jun 30, 2015
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#27
Nehemiah6 said:
One cannot dissociate the tower of Babel from Babel (which means *confusion* and ultimately spiritual confusion through Mystery Babylon), nor Babel from Nimrod, the man who led the human race into serious idolatry.

GENESIS 10
8 And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth. 9 He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD. 10 And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar. 11 Out of that land went forth Asshur, and builded Nineveh, and the city Rehoboth, and Calah, 12 And Resen between Nineveh and Calah: the same is a great city.

When the Bible says that Nimrod was a mighty hunter, that meant more than an ordinary hunter of game. Nimrod was a hunter of souls, and was controlled by Satan. For an in-depth view of Nimrod, read The Two Babylons by Alexander Hislop.
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Here is more information about Hislop's book... and it isn't complimentary: https://www.equip.org/article/the-two-babylons/
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

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#28
Jul 18, 2017
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#28
Dino246 said:
Here is more information about Hislop's book... and it isn't complimentary/
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That's only because it exposes the paganism within the church of Rome. Naturally, they have had to attack it by every possible means. Let's remember that the church of Rome falsely called the Reformers heretics. Nothing new.

The truth is that even the well-documented and scholarly History of the Christian Church by Philip Schaff CONFIRMS what Hislop said. That too is available online.
 
M

Mancher

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#29
Jan 14, 2019
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#29
Dino246 said:
Welcome to CC, Mancher! :)

I have to poke fun at this idea, because, after all, the baked bricks and tar for mortar fit right in with the language idea. ;)
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Yes....in fact, they do.
 
M

Mancher

New member
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Jan 14, 2019
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#30
the Bible was correct....

There was an ancient world language....

But the difference is, the written text was more robust and it lasted much longer than the spoken language.
 
Kavik

Kavik

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#31
Mar 25, 2017
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#31
As American Crusader mentioned - given the place where it was supposedly constructed, a ziggurat is the most likely candidate. Artistic renditions often have it look like the Learning Tower of Pisa on steroids, but that's a very Western view.

@Mancher -
The "one language" referred to was in all likelihood what we today call Proto-Semitic. One has to keep in mind that to someone living thousands of years ago in a small section of what we now call the Middle East, the "whole world" was just that - a small piece of what is now the Middle East. People surely would have recognized the similarities in their languages and come to the obvious conclusion that they all must have come from some parent language. When the religious allegory is removed from the narrative, the result is actually a pretty good rendition of what happened historically with Proto-Semitic from what we know about language migration and change. An interesting way for people to remember the history of their language(s).

See my blog post (in two parts) in the subject : https://christianchat.com/blogs/the-babel-narrative-and-a-common-language-1-of-2.176686/

And, https://christianchat.com/blogs/the-babel-narrative-and-a-common-language-2-of-2.176687/
 
Dino246

Dino246

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#32
Jun 30, 2015
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#32
Nehemiah6 said:
That's only because it exposes the paganism within the church of Rome. Naturally, they have had to attack it by every possible means. Let's remember that the church of Rome falsely called the Reformers heretics. Nothing new.
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Pointing out that references don't check out isn't "attacking". It's rational, sound criticism. Your dismissal of it is far more consistent with the kind sensationalism based on falsehood.
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

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#34
Sep 8, 2018
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#34
Nehemiah6 said:
That's only because it exposes the paganism within the church of Rome. Naturally, they have had to attack it by every possible means. Let's remember that the church of Rome falsely called the Reformers heretics. Nothing new.

The truth is that even the well-documented and scholarly History of the Christian Church by Philip Schaff CONFIRMS what Hislop said. That too is available online.
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Just as many things are a SHADOW of Christ in the OT.

I also believe that Nimrod is a shadow of the antichrist!
 
M

Mancher

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Jan 14, 2019
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Dino246 said:
This oughtta be good...

I'll make popcorn while I wait....
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Well, at least your interested :)

So, what do you know about the Chinese Stone Circles, and the geometric artifacts discovered at lingjiatan?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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#36
Dec 12, 2013
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#36
RoboOp said:
Hi AmericanCrusader, welcome to Christian Chat.

About your question about the tower of Babel and what you heard about why God stopped it:

There's no mention of the people taking idols into the tower or planning to. It's more so making an "idol" of the tower itself, or perhaps making an idol of "ourselves", our own ability to build such a tower ("that reaches the heavens"), etc.

Notice also God said woooaa... if, united as one people, speaking as one language, they've been able to do this, then nothing will be impossible for them. So it appears that the Lord decided to slow down technology (by scattering the nations with different languages). Why? Perhaps one reason is because if He didn't, we would have already destroyed ourselves (e.g., with nuclear weapons)? Though it doesn't say that in the text. But what it does seem to clearly say is that man, being made in the image of God (e.g., with intelligence, creativity, etc.), when united with one language and purpose, can accomplish incredible things (e.g., reaching the moon or even mars!), and for some reason(s) God decided to slow that down. I think one clear implication is the whole "make a name for ourselves" attitude. The more advanced we are in technology, the more we get way too confident in "ourselves" and our technology (medical technology, building technology, etc.) and want to "make a name for ourselves" rather than call on the name of God and rely on Him.

I remember when the World Trade Center was suddenly destroyed -- both mighty towers, symbols of American power, suddenly, without warning, within minutes decimated -- it was in the news soon after that many Americans started to turn back to God and go to church, after that very humbling national tragedy which was a reminder of how even man's greatest corporate technological feats with all our pride and confidence are not something we can rely on.
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A side note...when they laid the corner stone of granite to rebuild they quoted the same thing the Jews said when God judged them....

This is what was quoted when the corner stone was laid......

The bricks are fallen down, but we will build with hewn stones: the sycomores are cut down, but we will change them into cedars.
 
Dino246

Dino246

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#37
Jun 30, 2015
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#37
Mancher said:
Well, at least your interested :)

So, what do you know about the Chinese Stone Circles, and the geometric artifacts discovered at lingjiatan?
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While I'm familiar with many "prehistoric" artifacts, these haven't crossed my radar.
 
M

Mancher

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Jan 14, 2019
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#38
Dino246 said:
While I'm familiar with many "prehistoric" artifacts, these haven't crossed my radar.
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... They were recently discovered, and most of the published data is in Chinese.

The Chinese also created stone circles, and they also transported the larger stones from distant quarries. The reason why they did this is not known.

But the intrigue is.....in distant Britain they found geometric symbols at Stonehenge (The Bush Barrow Lozenge).

They also found geometrics at the Orkney Stone Circle....

....and they found geometric symbols at the Chinese site.

It is also known that these three sites predate the standard theory of writing.....

But they are all astronomical sites. Where astronomers are well known to be numerical and are always looking for patterns.

So....how did the astronomers write down their numbers?
 
G

Guojing

Banned
#39
Jan 12, 2019
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#39
AmericanCrusader said:
I read in a book that the tower of Babel was successfully built and functional and God decided to attack them after they carried their idols into it and sat them in heaven. Can you please provide me with information about the tower?
Click to expand...
This is where you have to be careful about various bible translations. The NIV is a popular one used in churches but it translates as "building", meaning its not completed. But if you look at KJV of Genesis 11.

5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.

I checked also with Young's Literal

5 And Jehovah cometh down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men have builded;

A final check with the amplified translation

5 Now the Lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built

So all these translations stated that, from God's perspective the tower has already been completed. Is that somewhat of a contradiction with the other translations? One simple way to reconcile is from Young's Literal Translation's preface http://www.ccel.org/bible/ylt/ylt.htm
  1. That the Hebrews were in the habit of using the past tense to express the certainty of an action taking place, even though the action might not really be performed for some time. And
  2. That the Hebrews, in referring to events which might be either past or future were accustomed to act on the principle of transferring themselves mentally to the period and place of the events themselves, and were not content with coldly viewing them as those of a bygone or still coming time; hence the very frequent use of the present tense.
So, from God's perspective of time, the moment Man in their imagination see themselves with a tower, in God's eyes. it is as good as being completed.

This has interesting implications for those Christians who are trying to believe in God for divine healing, "believe that you have received it, and you shall have it" (Mark 11:24), but that is for another discussion topic.
 
M

Mancher

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#40
Jan 14, 2019
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#40
Mancher said:
... They were recently discovered, and most of the published data is in Chinese.

The Chinese also created stone circles, and they also transported the larger stones from distant quarries. The reason why they did this is not known.

But the intrigue is.....in distant Britain they found geometric symbols at Stonehenge (The Bush Barrow Lozenge).

They also found geometrics at the Orkney Stone Circle....

....and they found geometric symbols at the Chinese site.

It is also known that these three sites predate the standard theory of writing.....

But they are all astronomical sites. Where astronomers are well known to be numerical and are always looking for patterns.

So....how did the astronomers write down their numbers?
Click to expand...
Well....they didn't use tallies as there is no archaeological evidence to support it

And they had to use fractions. The moon is repetitive in its motion but the numbers are values like 18.6 and 27.32 and 29.5

So we are looking at astronomers...and they had to write the numbers down somehow.

So......why not write the values down as angles.

And that is what they did....

Then the angular lines started to develop into a written text....

and that is where the Chinese data becomes important. Because the Chinese angular text was found with ancient symbols that are described in Chinese documents.

This fortunate overlap means it was possible to translate their ancient meaning, and to discover a written language that predates the Mesopotamian texts.
 
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