Not By Works

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VCO

VCO

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Oct 14, 2013
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UnderGrace said:
Amen and Amen, thank you for sharing this!!:)

(But when I try to think on this my head does start to hurt. LOL)
Click to expand...


I forgot the most important part:


AND IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT, THE OMNIPRESENCE OF GOD, INCLUDES EVERY CUBIC INCH OF THE UNIVERSE,
ALL AT THE SAME TIME, AND EVERY SECOND OF TIME AS WE KNOW IT. THUS, I AM, IS HIS APPROPRIATE NAME.


Now that will either blow your mind, or bless your soaks off, OR BOTH.

Something to think about when you meditate on GOD the next time.
 
BillG

BillG

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Feb 15, 2017
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GodsGrace101 said:
As soon as you find me a verse where Jesus said all we have to do is "believe" in Him and we'll be saved. He NEVER said this. He just said we have to be born from above.
John 6:29 says we are to believe in Him....but NO ONE here is willing to explain what BELIEVE means.
Wonder why???

And, apparently, you're asking again so you must have missed my post. no. 80,474...
Here it is again: Reading the entire N.T. again from cover to cover might help too...

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv

post 80,474

Those who preach the false gospel of having to do nothing to maintain salvation after we are born again are teaching a religion that is not Christianity. Having nothing to do after our salvation is a gospel of easy believism. Some here make being a Christian sound very easy because it sounds so good. Churches are beginning to do this too because it draws in crowds.

But it's not what Jesus said. And, as you requested, here is what Jesus said.
Does this sound easy to you?

Jesus said:
Mathew 16:24-25

Discipleship Is Costly

24Then Jesus said to His disciples, “If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me. 25“For whoever wishes to save his life will lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.

Then you said this in your post:
"The only work the Father requires is to to believe in the one who he sent"

This is from John 6:29...
The ONLY time in scripture where Jesus said this.
And do you know why? Because BELIEVE means something when it was said back then.
I'm rather tired of repeating what it means, so you could just look it up.

I've asked @dcontroversal to please explain it to everyone here and prove me wrong...but he has not done this. Why? Because if he does, he'll have to agree with me.

Just quick: Believe means TO DO. It doesn't mean to believe in some modern way and then sit around and do nothing.

You say you do out of love. Nice. The fact is that you're required TO DO, just as Jesus said.

You want scripture? Have you not read Mathew?

Mathew 4:4
Mathew 5:3-10
Mathew 5:13
Mathew 5:14
Mathew 5:16
Mathew 5:17
Mathew 5:19
Mathew 5:20
Mathew 5:22
Mathew 5:24
Mathew 5:27
Mathew 5:32
Mathew 5:39
Mathew 5:40
Mathew 5:41
Mathew 5:44
Mathew 5:48

I mean, really, must I go on? I could fill up two pages.
ALL Jesus did was to leave us instructions on HOW to live our lives...
and yet we want to say that all we need to do is to believe in Him (however people understand that nowadays) and that's ALL we have to do, but of course we do more because we love Him.

Well, I do think it's time to own up to our faith and say that we are required to obey God,,,
God does not make suggestions...

God commands.
If we're born again and follow in His ways, we REMAIN saved.
If we do not follow Him and are not a disciple of His...we return to being unsaved.

We are saved by faith.
We are kept saved by our behavior and obedience to God.
Click to expand...
Given that I responded using a few words from they above post it is obvious I read your post.
 
GodsGrace101

GodsGrace101

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#80,563
BillG said:
Given that I responded using a few words from they above post it is obvious I read your post.
Click to expand...
There's nothing much more to be said then.
We have to agree to disagree.

I don't believe in cheap grace or easy believism, which is making the rounds these days.
I believe every word that came out of the mouth of Jesus. Those verses I posted from Mathew are all things Jesus said...I go by that.

Protestant churches are caving in to what people want to hear...just like
2 Timothy 4:3 predicted. We hear what our ears want to hear.

Paul never thought he had conquered salvation...
2 Timothy 4:7
7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith;

Paul said we must fight the good fight, finish the course, and keep the faith.
I didn't write the N.T......the men I quote did, at the teaching of Jesus.
God does not request our obedience, for whatever reason we obey, He demands our obedience.



Titus 2:13-15
13looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,
14who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.
15These things speak and exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you.

I find it interesting that I've posted many verses and others tend not to, although some have.
But in each case I showed them how the verses they posted supported my view and not theirs.

I've also asked many times if it's necessary for us to obey....
Never got a straight answer...always that we obey because we love.
That goes without saying....
But MUST we??
That's a yes or no reply.

I have to leave for a while....

 
N

NoNameMcgee

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#80,565
GodsGrace101 said:
There's nothing much more to be said then.
We have to agree to disagree.

I don't believe in cheap grace or easy believism, which is making the rounds these days.
I believe every word that came out of the mouth of Jesus. Those verses I posted from Mathew are all things Jesus said...I go by that.

Protestant churches are caving in to what people want to hear...just like
2 Timothy 4:3 predicted. We hear what our ears want to hear.

Paul never thought he had conquered salvation...
2 Timothy 4:7
7 I have fought the good fight, I have finished the course, I have kept the faith;

Paul said we must fight the good fight, finish the course, and keep the faith.
I didn't write the N.T......the men I quote did, at the teaching of Jesus.
God does not request our obedience, for whatever reason we obey, He demands our obedience.



Titus 2:13-15
13looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus,
14who gave Himself for us to redeem us from every lawless deed, and to purify for Himself a people for His own possession, zealous for good deeds.
15These things speak and exhort and reprove with all authority. Let no one disregard you.

I find it interesting that I've posted many verses and others tend not to, although some have.
But in each case I showed them how the verses they posted supported my view and not theirs.

I've also asked many times if it's necessary for us to obey....
Never got a straight answer...always that we obey because we love.
That goes without saying....
But MUST we??
That's a yes or no reply.

I have to leave for a while....
Click to expand...
I hope while you're away you learn that Grace not only isn't cheap..... it's freely given to all who believe in Jesus...

as a gift.....

from a God whos gifts are without repentance....
 
GodsGrace101

GodsGrace101

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NoNameMcgee said:
I hope while you're away you learn that Grace not only isn't cheap..... it's freely given to all who believe in Jesus...

as a gift.....

from a God whos gifts are without repentance....
Click to expand...
YOU are the one making grace cheap NNM !!
Not me.

Apparently you don't know what the term means.
Maybe while I'm away you could find out?

Then we could talk again.

Grace was VERY EXPENSIVE for God...He gave His only Son.

Some believers make it cheap by stating that we're required to do nothing in response to what God did for us.

Find out about it.
Cheap grace and Easy believism mean the same thing.
I didn't make up the terms....they exist in Christianity.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

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GodsGrace101 said:
YOU are the one making grace cheap NNM !!
Not me.

Apparently you don't know what the term means.
Maybe while I'm away you could find out?

Then we could talk again.

Grace was VERY EXPENSIVE for God...He gave His only Son.

Some believers make it cheap by stating that we're required to do nothing in response to what God did for us.

Find out about it.
Cheap grace and Easy believism mean the same thing.
I didn't make up the terms....they exist in Christianity.
Click to expand...
Yes, it was paid for by God, so why are you trying to pay for it Yourself?
 
N

NoNameMcgee

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#80,568
GodsGrace101 said:
YOU are the one making grace cheap NNM !!
Not me.

Apparently you don't know what the term means.
Maybe while I'm away you could find out?

Then we could talk again.

Grace was VERY EXPENSIVE for God...He gave His only Son.

Some believers make it cheap by stating that we're required to do nothing in response to what God did for us.

Find out about it.
Cheap grace and Easy believism mean the same thing.
I didn't make up the terms....they exist in Christianity.
Click to expand...
Lovely response as usual🙄

bunch of sly remarks and worldly words and man made terms to try to bait an argument


"Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God."


you make a weak god up in your head... who has many failed and unfinished works... broken promises... who has no true love for his children....



God.... the one real God... is nothing like you describe with your false doctrine...
 
E

eternally-gratefull

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#80,569
NoNameMcgee said:
I hope while you're away you learn that Grace not only isn't cheap..... it's freely given to all who believe in Jesus...

as a gift.....

from a God whos gifts are without repentance....
Click to expand...
She calls it easy believism,

If it was so easy, everyone would trust in it. The reason they do not, is because pride refuses to,allow them, one must become bankrupt in spirit to just trust in things not seen

And remember, she is in sin every minute she is here, so who is the one excusing her own sin?
 
N

NoNameMcgee

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#80,570
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus


i pray she will one day accept the truth
 
BillG

BillG

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Feb 15, 2017
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GodsGrace101 said:
I don't believe in cheap grace or easy believism, which is making the rounds these days.
I believe every word that came out of the mouth of Jesus. Those verses I posted from Mathew are all things Jesus said...I go by that.
Click to expand...
Neither do I believe in greasy grace.
And you know that as I have said it many times.

Furthermore as you know and your friend who liked your post also knows I have quoted Jesus many times about obedience and how it will follow genuine faith (which is not a mere mental consent) goodness knows how many times I have posted "Jesus said if you love me you will do"

Points you and your friend continually ignore.

Along with the following I have posted many times

Ephesians 2:8-10 (NKJV)
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

As well as the sheep and goats and I could go on.
 
A

Argueless

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Oct 21, 2018
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... For this reason I kneel before the Father, from whom his whole family in heaven and on earth derives its name. I pray that out of his glorious riches HE MAY STRENGTHEN YOU WITH POWER THROUGH HIS SPIRIT IN YOUR INNER BEING so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith. And I pray that you, being ROOTED AND ESTABLISHED IN LOVE, MAY HAVE POWER together with all the saints, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is THE LOVE OF CHRIST, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that YOU MAY BE FILLED TO THE MEASURE OF ALL THE FULLNESS OF GOD. Now to him who is able to do immeasurably more than all we ask or imagine, according to HIS POWER THAT IS AT WORK WITHIN US, to him be glory in the church and in Christ Jesus throughout all generations, for ever and ever! Amen. Ephesians 3:14-21

...but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I do exactly what my Father has commanded me... John 14:31

...I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. John 14:12

...in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer;.. John 16:10

...SO THAT IN HIM WE MIGHT BECOME THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF GOD... 2 Corinthians 5:21

...Do not offer the parts of your body to sin, as instruments of wickedness, but rather offer yourselves to God, as those who have been brought from death to life; and offer the parts of your body to him as INSTRUMENTS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. Romans 6:13

...and to put on the new self, created to be like God in TRUE RIGHTEOUSNESS AND HOLINESS. Ephesians 4:24

...created IN Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

...Dear friends, although I was very eager to write to you about the salvation we share, I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints. For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and DENY Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord. Jude 1:3-4

...They claim to know God, but BY THEIR ACTIONS THEY DENY HIM. They are detestable, DISOBEDIENT and UNFIT FOR DOING ANYTHING GOOD. Titus 1:16

...If anyone teaches false doctrines and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is conceited and understands nothing. He has an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions and constant friction between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. 1 Timothy 6:3-5

... LET NO ONE DECEIVE YOU with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT. Ephesians 5:6
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

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Sep 8, 2018
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GodsGrace101 said:
YOU are the one making grace cheap NNM !!
Not me.

Apparently you don't know what the term means.
Maybe while I'm away you could find out?

Then we could talk again.

Grace was VERY EXPENSIVE for God...He gave His only Son.

Some believers make it cheap by stating that we're required to do nothing in response to what God did for us.

Find out about it.
Cheap grace and Easy believism mean the same thing.
I didn't make up the terms....they exist in Christianity.
Click to expand...
I believe in PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS! You can read about it here: https://www.ligonier.org/blog/tulip-and-reformed-theology-perseverance-saints/

Meaning God is the AUTHOR and FINISHER of our faith.

Let me try to play both fields here and try to reconcile what you are saying with what the others are saying:

HOW and WHY do you obey? Thats the key here. If you are obedient and think "If I just keep doing this and that, i'll be saved" now you are depending on WORKS to save you.
Instead what they are telling you is: You need to obey not TO BE SAVED but BECAUSE YOU ARE SAVED, prescriptive vs descriptive is the deal here.

Work out your salvation vs work FOR your salvation.

It is God working in you to DO and to WILL of His good pleasure. <- Its GOD doing that.

Also remember even ONE SIN is enough to disqualify you from the kingdom, therefore all the UNINTETIONAL SINS you do (Unless you deny doing such) need to be UNDER THE BLOOD too.

Thats all. Trying to be a diplomat here.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

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Hevosmies said:
I believe in PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS! You can read about it here: https://www.ligonier.org/blog/tulip-and-reformed-theology-perseverance-saints/

Meaning God is the AUTHOR and FINISHER of our faith.
Click to expand...
Amen! Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

Jude 1:1 - Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ.

I like the term, "preservation of the saints." :)
 
GodsGrace101

GodsGrace101

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Hevosmies said:
I believe in PERSEVERANCE OF THE SAINTS! You can read about it here: https://www.ligonier.org/blog/tulip-and-reformed-theology-perseverance-saints/

Meaning God is the AUTHOR and FINISHER of our faith.

Let me try to play both fields here and try to reconcile what you are saying with what the others are saying:

HOW and WHY do you obey? Thats the key here. If you are obedient and think "If I just keep doing this and that, i'll be saved" now you are depending on WORKS to save you.
Instead what they are telling you is: You need to obey not TO BE SAVED but BECAUSE YOU ARE SAVED, prescriptive vs descriptive is the deal here.

Work out your salvation vs work FOR your salvation.

It is God working in you to DO and to WILL of His good pleasure. <- Its GOD doing that.

Also remember even ONE SIN is enough to disqualify you from the kingdom, therefore all the UNINTETIONAL SINS you do (Unless you deny doing such) need to be UNDER THE BLOOD too.

Thats all. Trying to be a diplomat here.
Click to expand...
I appreciate this H.
Are you calvinist?
If you are, I know you agree with me even though that may make you unpopular.
I know about perseverance of the saints...I don't have to read about it.
Everyone on this thread is born again....so we're talking about AFTER salvation.
After salvation we are required to obey.
This causes a problem with some....too bad.
This is what Jesus said and also all the other N.T. writers.

I really have nothing further to say.
I do understand your position.
 
GodsGrace101

GodsGrace101

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mailmandan said:
Amen! Psalm 37:28 - For the Lord loves justice, And does not forsake His saints; They are preserved forever, But the descendants of the wicked shall be cut off.

Jude 1:1 - Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ.

I like the term, "preservation of the saints." :)
Click to expand...
You like the term "perseverance of the saints"?
It's not PRESERVATION OF THE SAINTS.

How much do you want to get wrong?
Even that you can't get right?

I'm outta here.

Notice that we are preserved IN Jesus Christ.
Many here are OSAS.
Well, another verse that disproves it.

If we are IN Jesus we're preserved.
If we're NOT IN Jesus we are not saved.
Jude 1:1 as you posted.
Thanks for that.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

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#80,578
GodsGrace101 said:
You like the term "perseverance of the saints"?
It's not PRESERVATION OF THE SAINTS.

How much do you want to get wrong?
Even that you can't get right?

I'm outta here.

Notice that we are preserved IN Jesus Christ.
Many here are OSAS.
Well, another verse that disproves it.

If we are IN Jesus we're preserved.
If we're NOT IN Jesus we are not saved.
Jude 1:1 as you posted.
Thanks for that.
Click to expand...
So you teach "greasy preservation" which is not forever, in opposition to Psalm 37:28? :unsure:
Preserved IN Christ Jesus means just that and how long are believers preserved in Christ Jesus? FOREVER. :)
Believers are IN Christ Jesus. Unbelievers are NOT in Christ Jesus. Simple! ;)

Believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession.. (Ephesians 1:13-14) (y)
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

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Sep 8, 2018
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GodsGrace101 said:
I appreciate this H.
Are you calvinist?
If you are, I know you agree with me even though that may make you unpopular.
I know about perseverance of the saints...I don't have to read about it.
Everyone on this thread is born again....so we're talking about AFTER salvation.
After salvation we are required to obey.
This causes a problem with some....too bad.
This is what Jesus said and also all the other N.T. writers.

I really have nothing further to say.
I do understand your position.
Click to expand...
Thanks!

Not a fan of the term calvinist.
But as they say: If the shoe fits, wear it!

I believe in PREDESTINATION.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

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Apr 7, 2014
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Hevosmies said:
Thanks!

Not a fan of the term calvinist.
But as they say: If the shoe fits, wear it!

I believe in PREDESTINATION.
Click to expand...
The word "predestination" is a Biblical word. Romans 8:29 - For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

Where people differ on "predestination" is some people attribute the word to "fatalistic determination" and others to "foreknowledge."
 
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