Need clarity regarding this Predestination thing and something related to an election?

This is where we very much disagree, if you are saved you "will" do good works, but you will do them because it is now your nature to desire to be more like your Father. You deny this?

Why are you so against "being" better? Guilt? You don't do anything for the Lord?

He did it all why? To keep me the same.

By the way I sin a lot less that in the flesh

It's not about remaining saved or proving you are saved, but James said show me your faith without works and I will show you my faith by my works.

I think the Bible teaches that a person who has truly been born of God will want to do more than "get His ticket to heaven punched". There ate false conversions and true conversions. The false conversions gave a mere intellectual assent and lip service, but they were not born of God. There is a type of false faith that does not lead to conversion.

As far as the Corinthians, we are not saying Christians are faultless. I have my share of faults, as I'm sure we all do. But if we are His Sheep we love Him and follow. If we go astray, He goes after us.

This is where we very much disagree, if you are saved you "will" do good works, but you will do them because it is now your nature to desire to be more like your Father. You deny this? If so why? Jesus has no power? If we are reborn and do nothing, what's the point? I think this is where you are mistaken brother, and I mean that with all love and respect, but if you are saved you WILL change, i.e. do works. Why are you so against "being" better? Guilt? You don't do anything for the Lord?

Also why are you preaching sin? Why focus and defend that, of all things why defend and glorify sin as "just something we do"?

Of course we still sin, but we strive to be more like our Father and by rebirth have now been gifted with the ability to do so by His grace, through His Spirit that awakens ours, and reconciles it to His?

Are you really preaching "we sin, and can sit idle the rest of our lives." I have a strong feeling this is not what God has done in you, am I wrong?

It's not about remaining saved or proving you are saved, but James said show me your faith without works and I will show you my faith by my works.

I think the Bible teaches that a person who has truly been born of God will want to do more than "get His ticket to heaven punched". There ate false conversions and true conversions. The false conversions gave a mere intellectual assent and lip service, but they were not born of God. There is a type of false faith that does not lead to conversion.

As far as the Corinthians, we are not saying Christians are faultless. I have my share of faults, as I'm sure we all do. But if we are His Sheep we love Him and follow. If we go astray, He goes after us. That is why we keep believing, and we are kept by the power of God through faith, same way we are initially saved.

As far as losing salvation, isn't it BAD enough that not abiding in Him robs us of the fulness of peace and joy, hurts God's heart, robs us of the fulness of intimacy with God that we might otherwise have, hurts our testimony, can cause others to stumble in their faith, loss of reward, shamr etc, , to be motivation enough to abide without fearing loss of salvation


These things we write so that your JOY may be full, that you may have fellowship, that you might know, etc...

Do you still sin now? Yes but do not brag about, endorse, or glory in it as you are doing now.

I am no long a slave to sin.

How many sins will damn you? Why are you still looking at it in the flesh? it's not a matter of numbers, or amount,

I am in the Spirit now, a whole new man with a whole new nature. I promise those closest to me will testify of Gods power to change men, I would almost bet those around you could too, if your truly saved, but this is my point, and please try to follow me here, we do not change and "do works" buy our own power, it's ALL Him, so when I say "if you are saved it WILL be evidenced by what you do (your works)

Stop preaching "your always saved and will always sin

I do not understand this whole "Christian defends sin" argument.

Jim, I am not doing that at all.
Yes you are, you ARE promoting sin and implying seeking righteousness isn't possible. That's what I get from your arguments here, you are saying "we will always sin", that is endorsing it brother.



Do you still sin every day? How many times do I have to answer this. Let me ask you brother, please answer this. When you were reborn was there any change in you? Anything you did before you no longer do, or anything you didn't do that you now do? What there any change?



Wrong. If you have a single sin attributed to you, you are lost. The Bible says without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. If you have a single sin in your account, Jesus isn't coming back to die for it.

No You are wrong, and attacked a straw man, the amount has NOTHING to do with it, that was what I said, you just affirmed thins in your comment, 1 sin or a billion, the amount maters not, so I was right.



What good works are you doing now that say, a Mormon cannot do? The faithful Mormon will certainly have "evidence" of a new nature.
Those are works in the flesh, and as must trouble as you seem to be having with this conversation I think you may need to take a serious look at yourself, because every case or argument you're making here seems like an atheistic argument, as if you can't see with spiritual eyes. You whole concept of this seems to be coming from a fleshly worldview.
When where you born again, and what exactly does that mean to you. It's starting to make sense that you have to defend "Christians still sin", as if there is no change, because in you there has been no change. Where you raised Christian?

Also please understand I have no clue if you're saved, or anyone else, I am just pointing out that from my point of view, and the arguments you're making, that you have not been saved, and were just told you are. Then same way I was before my motorcycle wreak. Being saved is KNOWING God, it is a LIFE CHANGING event as it should be, if you know nothing of this then He just sent me to point it out to you, but if you are then please share, I'd truly love to hear it.




I won't stop, because it's the truth. We have eternal security, and we will continue to sin until the day we die.

I don't "defend" sin. I'm simply stating a reality you cannot deny. You still sin, and you do it daily. Just as I, and everyone else does.

Is it sins of omission rather than sins of comission. But then God is patient with us, or it would be the moment we believe and are saved we die right that instant and enter heaven. No sanctification process needed.

I think people confused being justified with being sanctified?

Or is it people deny dying to self, and dont get baptised...? Or dont die daily...or maybe...and I note this is common from people who think God doesnt care if we dont do anything with this precious gift ahe gives us..they simply dont read the next verse - Ephesians 2:10

We are saved us by grace through faith it is a gift of God, not of works lest anyone boast For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has ordained for us to walk in them.

When do we walk in them? Right after we have been given the gift! Its like if you given a pair of gospel sandals for christmas and then never wear them?! Dont just wear them for special ocassions or bung them in the closet saying thanks for the sandals, but Im still gonna wear my old shoes.

Yes but I'm not online bragging about it, glorifying the fact I will always do so.

Do you deny Jesus brakes the chains of sin?

Are you denying the death of the old man?

How did you get that from me saying we all sin daily?



Jim, do you still sin?



The Old Man will only perish when our physical bodies do.

If the Old Man is now dead in believers, then we wouldn't sin at all, would we?

How did you get that from me saying we all sin daily?



Jim, do you still sin?



The Old Man will only perish when our physical bodies do.

If the Old Man is now dead in believers, then we wouldn't sin at all, would we?

Amen brother. I do not understand this whole "Christian defends sin" argument. Are we not even allowed to try to follow righteousness even in the church now? No, No, No, we will always sin!!!! That is just not an argument you'd think a Christian should make. I am NOT a slave of sin, I am a slave of righteousness, that's what I want to preach, how to get more righteous in Christ, not how much I'm still going to sin. Bud can you not see the conflict here?

Or is it people deny dying to self, and dont get baptised...? Or dont die daily...or maybe...and I note this is common from people who think God doesnt care if we dont do anything with this precious gift ahe gives us..they simply dont read the next verse - Ephesians 2:10

We are saved us by grace through faith it is a gift of God, not of works lest anyone boast For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God has ordained for us to walk in them.

When do we walk in them? Right after we have been given the gift! Its like if you given a pair of gospel sandals for christmas and then never wear them?! Dont just wear them for special ocassions or bung them in the closet saying thanks for the sandals, but Im still gonna wear my old shoes.