(poll) Do We Choose Him or Does he choose us?

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Do We Choose Him or Does he choose us?

  • He chooses us by predestination

    Votes: 31 64.6%

  • He gives us the strength and desire, but the choice is up to us in the end

    Votes: 16 33.3%

  • It's completely up to us without his strength or given desires by him

    Votes: 1 2.1%
  • Total voters
    48
S

seed_time_harvest

Senior Member
#281
Dec 9, 2011
14,112
1,798
113
#281
GOD did predestine those who were once lovers of darkness that If they were going to be saved to be conformed to the Image of HIS SON,JESUS but some here are In error Interpreting predestination IMO Incorrectly to mean that GOD didn't really mean whosoever will come to mean whosoever will but to mean not everyone can come and receive rest.
John 15:16
King James Version

16.)Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and [that] your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
+++
Ephesians 2:10
King James Version

10.)For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
 
Nehemiah6

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
#283
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,771
113
#283
seed_time_harvest said:
They look at GODs predestination In a way that a man would look at predestination making GOD look bad.
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Well if someone told you that God gives billions of human beings life on earth so that they will be eternally damned in Hell by His unchangeable decree, that would certainly make God look bad. Even Nebuchadnezzar would look good in comparison. But we can thank Augustine and the Calvinists for coming up with this nonsense.

On the other hand if someone told you that God has guaranteed that you -- as a flawed and sinful human being -- will be perfected into the likeness of Christ, and that is why He has predestined you for glorification, that would put an entirely different light on the grace of God and the finished work of Christ. And this is really the true meaning of election and predestination.
 
O

oldethennew

Banned
#284
Feb 28, 2016
11,311
2,972
113
#284
the destinies of those who are the children of God were and have always
been written upon our Heavenly Father's Heart...
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#285
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#285
thywordisalampuntomyfeet said:
Doesn't Scripture say that none come to Jesus unless the Father draws him, and about those whom He chose He did predestine, God knowing the end from the beginning, even before the creation of the world, He being eternal and the Creator of all things? God knew before He created the world who would come to Him--we think we're making choices but if God knows everything that's ever going to happen then are there really multiple potentials for the future? Weren't we given our good works beforehand to walk into? I don't know that we have free will if everything that's going to happen will happen (according to God's foreknowledge)... We're quick to trust Him and to say that's He's in control but I believe that those who die in Christ were chosen (I never considered myself a Calvinist before) :)
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Does Psalms 53:2-3 indicate what God saw by his foreknowledge?
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#286
#286
ForestGreenCook said:
Does Psalms 53:2-3 indicate what God saw by his foreknowledge?
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Does God have to "look" down from heaven to know what is going on in the earth? The answer is a resounding No. God knows and has always known what is happening here. He don't have to search for a man, he created that man and knows him. Did God created the universe and set it to run its own course or did he create it with a plan? That is the real question. And the answer is both. He created it all and set it on a course, and worked his plan in it while it runs, He moves and works all things to his plan.
 
Hevosmies

Hevosmies

Well-known member
#287
Sep 8, 2018
3,612
2,633
113
#287
Locoponydirtman said:
Does God have to "look" down from heaven to know what is going on in the earth? The answer is a resounding No. God knows and has always known what is happening here. He don't have to search for a man, he created that man and knows him. Did God created the universe and set it to run its own course or did he create it with a plan? That is the real question. And the answer is both. He created it all and set it on a course, and worked his plan in it while it runs, He moves and works all things to his plan.
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I agree with that, but about the part in the bold, what about this verse:

Ezekiel 22:30 And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#288
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#288
Locoponydirtman said:
Does God have to "look" down from heaven to know what is going on in the earth? The answer is a resounding No. God knows and has always known what is happening here. He don't have to search for a man, he created that man and knows him. Did God created the universe and set it to run its own course or did he create it with a plan? That is the real question. And the answer is both. He created it all and set it on a course, and worked his plan in it while it runs, He moves and works all things to his plan.
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So, what is your interpretation of Psalms 53? It is in the inspired scriptures for a reason.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#289
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#289
Locoponydirtman said:
Does God have to "look" down from heaven to know what is going on in the earth? The answer is a resounding No. God knows and has always known what is happening here. He don't have to search for a man, he created that man and knows him. Did God created the universe and set it to run its own course or did he create it with a plan? That is the real question. And the answer is both. He created it all and set it on a course, and worked his plan in it while it runs, He moves and works all things to his plan.
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Because he knew beforehand that none would seek him is why he choose an elect people before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4) and had his Son to die for their sins, to make them holy and without blame before him in love (John 6:39). All that he died for will be with him in heaven, without the loss of even one.
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#290
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#290
Hevosmies said:
I agree with that, but about the part in the bold, what about this verse:

Ezekiel 22:30 And I sought for a man among them, that should make up the hedge, and stand in the gap before me for the land, that I should not destroy it: but I found none.
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God does not plan. God purposes.
 
S

selfdissolving

Guest
#291
#291
eternally-gratefull said:
God chose Jacob as an heir to abraham to recieve the promises he promised to abraham

he di dnto chose to save Jacob and sent Esau to hell..

That interpretation of romans 9 is flawed
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Actually, God chose the younger brother to inherit his father's blessing before the two were ever even born. Esau was born first, and in antiquity the first born son was the heir.

God chose Jacob (the younger) as the heir so that God's election might be displayed. God's favor is something that he Sovereignly gives or withholds according to the counsel of his own will.
 
M

Macabeus

Banned
#292
Dec 27, 2018
4,170
876
113
#292
God chose us before the foundation of the earth, made us thirsty for Him, and then invited us to come drink the water
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#293
#293
selfdissolving said:
Actually, God chose the younger brother to inherit his father's blessing before the two were ever even born. Esau was born first, and in antiquity the first born son was the heir.

God chose Jacob (the younger) as the heir so that God's election might be displayed. God's favor is something that he Sovereignly gives or withholds according to the counsel of his own will.
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God still did not chose to SAVE one child. And CONDEMN another child before they wre even born, that is not what Paul was saying, that is not what God did.

He chose to give te BIRTHRIGHT to one, and not the other so that the lie that God chose us based on mans view of how a birthright is given can not be argued.. God chose Isreal as the nation not based on the will of man, But the will of God
 
F

ForestGreenCook

Well-known member
#294
Jul 8, 2018
8,441
1,213
113
#294
eternally-gratefull said:
God still did not chose to SAVE one child. And CONDEMN another child before they wre even born, that is not what Paul was saying, that is not what God did.

He chose to give te BIRTHRIGHT to one, and not the other so that the lie that God chose us based on mans view of how a birthright is given can not be argued.. God chose Isreal as the nation not based on the will of man, But the will of God
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God explains why he choose one over the other and that was 'TO SHOW THAT HIS ELECTION MIGHT STAND'.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#295
#295
ForestGreenCook said:
God explains why he choose one over the other and that was 'TO SHOW THAT HIS ELECTION MIGHT STAND'.
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It still has nothing to do with either childs salvation. As many think.
 
tourist

tourist

Senior Member
#296
Mar 13, 2014
42,556
17,025
113
69
Tennessee
#296
eternally-gratefull said:
Dude, What is so hard about what I said

You asked, Did I chose God. - My Answer YES!!

You asked, Did I chose God out of my goodness - My answer NO!

You asked. Did I chose god out of my own strength - My Answer - NO

What is so hard about what I am saying, unless your FISHING for an answer? In which case, you will NEVER understand my point..
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There is nothing hard to understand what you have stated and it is spiritually sound as well. I chose God too. Some guy named Joshua back in the day chose God as well including his entire family.
 
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eternally-gratefull

Guest
#297
#297
tourist said:
There is nothing hard to understand what you have stated and it is spiritually sound as well. I chose God too. Some guy named Joshua back in the day chose God as well including his entire family.
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I chose gods salvation

he chose me

how could I chose a God I could not know
 
P

Prycejosh1987

Well-known member
#299
Jul 19, 2020
1,016
189
63
#299
Xethea said:
Do We Choose Him or Does he choose us?
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Many are called but few are chosen, this implies that Jesus chose everybody, but only a few are selected. Millions will get saved, billions will go to hell.
 
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