Praying in Tongues
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No, you're reading into that. Read what is there. Extrapolation is not your friend.
While praying, I didn't know a girl named Vicki was about to start cutting herself. But I did receive knowledge that someone was in danger and needed intercession. Never would have known any of it if I hadn't allowed the HS to act outside the bounds of my knowledge. If I had not prayed in the Spirit would God have found another way to intercede? Maybe. Or maybe poor Vicki would have killed herself.
While praying, I didn't know a girl named Vicki was about to start cutting herself. But I did receive knowledge that someone was in danger and needed intercession. Never would have known any of it if I hadn't allowed the HS to act outside the bounds of my knowledge. If I had not prayed in the Spirit would God have found another way to intercede? Maybe. Or maybe poor Vicki would have killed herself.
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If you think if you are inspired by God to brining his word as prophecy then you are a apostle.(sent one) Its another word that has been added to with another meaning to make the true meaning to no effect when it comes to reasoning. This is in violation to the warning in Deuteronomy 4:3 not to add to a word singular. Change the meaning of one word change the authorship of the whole.
I think the Catholic church originally made it to no effect in order to gives the idea of apostolic succession as venerable ones giving them a false an authority that they used to lord over the pew Catholic as the non venerable ones.
All who are sent with the gospel the word of God are considered apostles sent by God . God sent Able as a apostle and his brother Cain who seen no value in the things of God killed the messenger . The first recorded martyr. The twelve a remnant were set apart from the whole to be used in a parable in Revelation 21. The new testament list 27 apostles .
The gifts have not ceased just new prophecy that could bring new knowledge. The last chapter or book Revelation remains the last .
Today we have the complete or the perfect. It is sealed up till the end of time with a warning not to add or subtract from the whole (Genesis through Revelation) .
I think the Catholic church originally made it to no effect in order to gives the idea of apostolic succession as venerable ones giving them a false an authority that they used to lord over the pew Catholic as the non venerable ones.
All who are sent with the gospel the word of God are considered apostles sent by God . God sent Able as a apostle and his brother Cain who seen no value in the things of God killed the messenger . The first recorded martyr. The twelve a remnant were set apart from the whole to be used in a parable in Revelation 21. The new testament list 27 apostles .
The gifts have not ceased just new prophecy that could bring new knowledge. The last chapter or book Revelation remains the last .
Today we have the complete or the perfect. It is sealed up till the end of time with a warning not to add or subtract from the whole (Genesis through Revelation) .
Sign, sign
Everywhere a sign
Blockin' out the scenery
Breakin' my mind
Do this, don't do that
Can't you read the sign?
Read more: Five Man Electrical Band - Signs Lyrics | MetroLyrics
Everywhere a sign
Blockin' out the scenery
Breakin' my mind
Do this, don't do that
Can't you read the sign?
Read more: Five Man Electrical Band - Signs Lyrics | MetroLyrics
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Praying in tongues is never taught in the bible. When Paul alludes to praying in tongues he is using hyperbole just look at the context. Jesus never spoke in tongues and when the disciples asked Jesus to teach them to pray Jesus taught them to pray in their normal native language.
At the end of the day one might determine that those who claim to pray in tongues simply do not know how to pray. The effectual prayer of the righteous availeth much.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
At the end of the day one might determine that those who claim to pray in tongues simply do not know how to pray. The effectual prayer of the righteous availeth much.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Dear FD, yes it seems i express little missunderstoodable.
I agree of course with the scripture which you mentioned and lay out from 1. Corinthians. For the past. That we have spirituell gifts today I also agree.
What I wanted to add was concerning Joel 2, 28. The context and circumstances of Joel 2.28 are till today not fulfilled for the nation of Israel. So Peter could not mean the total fullfillement of Joel 2.28.
My critic was not to you, but against those groups which claiming that special the signgifts are today the same like in the apostolic time, where the bible was not finished.
I also criticise, but not to your adress, that this signgifts only are to get in combination with an special expierience with the Holy Spirit.
The OP made a statement which seems that there is an different in the reationship to the father, between praying in tongues ( not understandable words) and praying in understandable words.
And with this statement I not agree.
And yes, i would expect that if the signgifts would be for today, we would find them in all churches through the churchhistorie till today. In 1899 we find them only under groups which we called sects.
And it began with Topeka in 1900 when the first believer was baptised with the Holy Spirit and as sign for that the gift of speaking in tongues.
In the same year the pope dedicate the 20th century to the Holy Spirit.
Well, thank you for you reply and good night.
I agree of course with the scripture which you mentioned and lay out from 1. Corinthians. For the past. That we have spirituell gifts today I also agree.
What I wanted to add was concerning Joel 2, 28. The context and circumstances of Joel 2.28 are till today not fulfilled for the nation of Israel. So Peter could not mean the total fullfillement of Joel 2.28.
My critic was not to you, but against those groups which claiming that special the signgifts are today the same like in the apostolic time, where the bible was not finished.
I also criticise, but not to your adress, that this signgifts only are to get in combination with an special expierience with the Holy Spirit.
The OP made a statement which seems that there is an different in the reationship to the father, between praying in tongues ( not understandable words) and praying in understandable words.
And with this statement I not agree.
And yes, i would expect that if the signgifts would be for today, we would find them in all churches through the churchhistorie till today. In 1899 we find them only under groups which we called sects.
And it began with Topeka in 1900 when the first believer was baptised with the Holy Spirit and as sign for that the gift of speaking in tongues.
In the same year the pope dedicate the 20th century to the Holy Spirit.
Well, thank you for you reply and good night.
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I can remember that as if it was yesterday,.Long haired freaky people need not apply so I tucked my hair under my hat etc
I think there is a difference with a sign that we use concerning unseen spiritual matters .
Prophecy leads, signs follow to expose those who do not heed prophecy or have no need for the unseen things of God .
Sign that we use or used both ways together. The sign usual determines something as a shape with the words like do not pass, or the 60 mph . if it had the shape of a speeding sign with no instruction. Then I think you would be on the autobahn
I had a younger sister that when first started driving that asked me about them .Every time she would pass a sign that said "do not pass" she would be looking over her shoulder .
God brings a sign against those who will not believe prophecy. as those who seek after a sign before they will believe. Calling them a evil generation or forward generation, no faith .
Sign seeker have been around from the beginning. yet for all that they would not believe prophecy
John 6:30They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
John 4:48Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
Tongues is a good example of those who break the law that divides prophecy from signs making the prophecy without effect and the sign to confirm something that apposes prophecy .
The law in 1 Cor. 14 applies to any sign that God bring against those who have no faith, Cain was a marked man in that way, a sign of unbelief, or no faith.
God brought signs and wonders against Egypt yet they still would not believe prophecy.
1 Corinthians 14:21-23 King James Version (KJV)In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
I think there is a difference with a sign that we use concerning unseen spiritual matters .
Prophecy leads, signs follow to expose those who do not heed prophecy or have no need for the unseen things of God .
Sign that we use or used both ways together. The sign usual determines something as a shape with the words like do not pass, or the 60 mph . if it had the shape of a speeding sign with no instruction. Then I think you would be on the autobahn
I had a younger sister that when first started driving that asked me about them .Every time she would pass a sign that said "do not pass" she would be looking over her shoulder .
God brings a sign against those who will not believe prophecy. as those who seek after a sign before they will believe. Calling them a evil generation or forward generation, no faith .
Sign seeker have been around from the beginning. yet for all that they would not believe prophecy
John 6:30They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
John 4:48Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.
Tongues is a good example of those who break the law that divides prophecy from signs making the prophecy without effect and the sign to confirm something that apposes prophecy .
The law in 1 Cor. 14 applies to any sign that God bring against those who have no faith, Cain was a marked man in that way, a sign of unbelief, or no faith.
God brought signs and wonders against Egypt yet they still would not believe prophecy.
1 Corinthians 14:21-23 King James Version (KJV)In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord. Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
This is a summary of all the errors you write on this subject.
The role of apostle is not the role of prophet; they are distinct, per Ephesians 4 and 1 Corinthians 12.
Tongues is not prophecy; they are distinct, per 1 Corinthians 12 through 14.
You must have the reference incorrect regarding Deuteronomy 4:3; it says nothing about "word of the Lord".
The Catholic "church" has nothing to do with this.
While "apostle" does literally mean "sent one"; it is a fallacy to conclude that all sent ones are therefore apostles.
Nobody is claiming to add to Scripture when they speak in tongues. Please, stop making this ridiculous association. It reflects poorly on you when you repeat such error.
The role of apostle is not the role of prophet; they are distinct, per Ephesians 4 and 1 Corinthians 12.
Tongues is not prophecy; they are distinct, per 1 Corinthians 12 through 14.
You must have the reference incorrect regarding Deuteronomy 4:3; it says nothing about "word of the Lord".
The Catholic "church" has nothing to do with this.
While "apostle" does literally mean "sent one"; it is a fallacy to conclude that all sent ones are therefore apostles.
Nobody is claiming to add to Scripture when they speak in tongues. Please, stop making this ridiculous association. It reflects poorly on you when you repeat such error.
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Asserting that Paul's words were hyperbole, without providing any evidence beyond "just look at the context" is without merit. I've looked at the context, and I don't agree with you. While there is no record in Scripture of Jesus speaking in tongues, your argument is a fallacy - an argument from silence. There is record of the disciples and some new converts speaking in tongues; that is sufficient.
That is a fallacious character assassination and has absolutely no merit. Or, more succinctly, that's c**p.
Perhaps you should end with "For the cause of cessationism" instead.
That is a fallacious character assassination and has absolutely no merit. Or, more succinctly, that's c**p.
Perhaps you should end with "For the cause of cessationism" instead.
Yes distinct prophecy God's word is district from those he sends with it. The same with prophecy tongues. the sign is against those who believe not prophecy in any language to include their own. Just look at the law in 1 Cor. 14 as it relates to the foundation in Isaiah 28 .
Is God still bringing new prophecy that could be added to the book of Revelation? Is there a law missing by which we could know Him more perfectly or has the perfect come and no more new prophecy and therefore knowledge that comes with it.?
Is God still bringing new prophecy that could be added to the book of Revelation? Is there a law missing by which we could know Him more perfectly or has the perfect come and no more new prophecy and therefore knowledge that comes with it.?
Prophecy, tongues, healing, all will cease come the Kingdom, until then there are many tongues in this age and teh gift of tongues yet is because we are yet in this age…………..
Nowhere does it mention the gifts of teh Holy Spirit will cease, that reference is only to the temporal need for these gifts if you are able to receive this.
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It is interesting to note that the Lord Jesus Christ taught us to pray in our own languages, as He prayed in His own language (Aramaic). The Book of Psalms is essentially a book of prayers and praise which were originally written in Hebrew (by divine inspiration) but translated into plain English. So most Christians will not pray in tongues (foreign languages which they do not know) but in their own languages. And that is perfectly satisfactory to God.
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