Seventh-day Adventists

The use of the word Today makes it extremely time sensitive. The 'true' Sabbath is the only Sabbath. Sorry, but I have no idea what you are referring to about this 'true unseen substance'. I'm not really clear from your posts if you believe that the Sabbath is still a day to keep holy or not.

Two kinds of Sabbaths.

The ceremonial sabbath as a shadow of the true is time sensitive. One day a week set aside when a person can bring out the gospel into the world in a hope Christ will apply it to their heart. . The other Sabbath, everyday all day as long as today is still called today, non time sensitive. 24/7

It would seem the idea of a Sabbath today is to rest from the work of the week and not bring the fast which represents the gospel .Its a day set aside from our everyday work we can work brining the gospel in a living hope we can be head on high .

The today is any day all day 24/7. We keep it set apart from the ceremonial sabbath, the shadow, sensitive to one day

The 'true unseen substance' is the faith that God works in us to both will and do His good pleasure as that which softens our hard hearts .Read Hebrew 4 slowly.

Revelation is the signified language used in the book of Revelation. Without parables as the signified language of God, Christ spoke not, hiding the spiritual understanding from those who literalize the signified signature of God.

To signify is to use the things seen the temporal to gives us the unseen spiritual understanding, hid from natural man.

We can witness that from the opening statement that not only did he inspire it but also signified His word

Revelation 1 King James Version (KJV)The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and "signified it" by his angel unto his servant John:

How would apply what you offered to the evil generation (natural man ) that does seek after a sign?

Prophecy leads, signs follow after those who refuse to hear prophecy. Its the mark of Cain one who sees no profit in knowing God not seen .Like that of Esau who sold his spiritual birth place for a cup of lamb soup seeing no value in the things not seen. The buying and selling has to do with spiritual truths . Not something a person can buy at the corner grocery

Proverbs 23:23 King James Version (KJV) Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding

Well, google doesnt give everything otherwise, anyone who wants to know about sda can just google it and we wont be having a conversation. I just thought Left Behind series seems quite similar to SDA doctrine about end times, as they often interpet Daniel to mean something other than what it was meaning. The 70 weeks thing.

Basically, from what I gather the SDAs interpeted the 70 weeks thing to mean sometime in 1844, when Jesus returns, but, the 70 weeks thing in Daniel was referring to the crucifixtion and then the destruction of the temple. Now some people believe Jesus returned then. But as I was not there at the time I cant really verify what happened!

And so we get two schools of thought on that. But then...you get the dispys claiming the rapture will be in 1988. Well last I checked we are in 2018. And I dont recall anything major happening in 1988. Like the world didnt end.

Let me just say Jesus returns for each and everyone of us in our last days of our lives on earth do bring us into heaven or judge us as he knows our hearts, so I wouldnt worry on that score. If you believe with all your heart then you are not lost and you wont be 'left behind" or disappointed.

SDA's don't believe in a secret rapture as depicted in the Left Behind books where people disappear and clothes are left and cars and planes crash. We believe in the Second coming of Jesus where all eyes shall see him returning in the clouds.

By some of your other comments you are clearly confused about what SDA's believe and lump us in with different denominations beliefs.

Well, nobodys really explaining it very well. Its all very confusing. I sometimes come across books in the library at first I think are christian but turns out they are written by sdas and they turn out to be rants about keeping the ten commandments and other law based doctrines. But the thing is, they dont openly declare they are written by SDAs. Until you find out later they just follow what ellen G white says, which sometimes contradicts the Bible, I mean investigative judgement isnt in the Bible, and things like soul sleep. And then Daniels 70 weeks, and other doomsday predictions.

Semantics? Words like Law and commandment. Mandates as such were not necessary in Abraham's time and before. They did not have to BE told; they knew. Circumcision was added however. It was mandated well after the Life; the Word was set up in which we were made to live. For we were made in HIS image and likeness.

Circumcision even at the time of Abram was sign in relation to cutting off the flesh; a life outside of the LIFE; the WORD in which we were designed to live through. A sign of restoration to what was meant to be. A life in Faith; in harmony with GOD.

Sin is defined in 1John 3:4 “sin is the transgression of the law, lawlessness, wickedness." Therefore, “where there is no law there is no transgression” (Romans 4:15). This is what the Bible clearly says! So do we find transgressions described as sinful before Mt. Sinai? Clearly we do.

For until law (mandates) sin was in the world, yet sin is not being taken into account when there is no law;" (Rom 5:13)
It has always been about Faith. The inner man changed through GOD's Spirit.

As it is written, The just shall live by faith. For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness; Because that which may be known of God IS MANIFESTED IN THEM; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him FROM THE CREATION OF THE WORLD are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
(Rom 1:17-21)

So the LIFE; the WORD had to be mandated; reinstituted. BUT they refused the WORDS OF LIFE from the breath of LIFE again.
And they said unto Moses, Speak thou with us, and we will hear: but let not God speak with us, lest we die.
(Exo 20:19)

They chose man and parchment and that which was written on tables of stone rather GOD's real intent; faith through HIS Spirit.
And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. Hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, For this commandment (Word through Christ) which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word (Christ) is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it. That is the WORD OF FAITH in which we preach. The Law; HIS Word, Christ put in the heart and written in the mind. In that we will be HIS people and HE our GOD. The word of reconciliation, be ye reconciled to God. For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. For Christ (through which the WORD is in the heart, mind and mouth) is the end of the Law (on parchment and Tables of Stone) for righteousness unto all who believe. Manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;


(Deut 30:11-14 Rom 10:4,6-6; Heb 8:10; 2Co 5:19-21; 2Co 3:3-5)


[/quote]Sabbath which is a sign of the Sinaitic covenant? [/QUOTE]God was clear when He spoke it why he had mandated it.

Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: FOR in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
(Exo 20:9-11 KJV)
It is a sign between me and the children of Israel (those who would hold on to GOD through the wrestlings of this life to receive the Blessing) for ever: FOR in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested, and was refreshed.
(Exo 31:17 KJV)

Children in the above text is translated from the Hebrew word bane. Here is excerpt from the BDB Hebrew Lexicon. Please take notice what was highlighted in bold text. In respect that the word used; it can and should be considered much broader in definition than children. Considering that Israel was to be a nation of priests; a witness of GOD unto all creation.

Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel. (Exod 19:5,6)


H1121
בּן
bên
BDB Definition:
1) son, grandson, child, member of a group
1a) son, male child
1b) grandson
1c) children (plural - male and female)
1d) youth, young men (plural)
1e) young (of animals)
1f) sons (as characterisation, i.e. sons of injustice [for unrighteous men] or sons of God [for angels])
1g) people (of a nation) (plural)
1h) of lifeless things, i.e. sparks, stars, arrows (figuratively)
1i) a member of a guild, order, class
Part of Speech: noun masculine
A Related Word by BDB/Strong’s Number: from H1129
Same Word by TWOT Number: 254

I would offer in addition. Circumcision like all ceremonial laws were used as a shadow of a suffering Christ coming in the flesh as a demonstration of the Lamb of God who was slain from before the foundation of the world.( the gospel beforehand)

The old testament saint receiving the end of their faith which came from hearing God just as us today . They looked ahead to the glory (the veil being rent.) we look back to the same as we are informed in 1 Peter 1.

Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.1 Peter 1:9-11

Interestingly in Exodus we can see the ceremonial law working and God using a gentile Zipporah to prevent her husband Mosses from the Lord taking his life. Twice the Holy Spirit relates circumcision to our "bloody husband", Jesus as the Son of man . Again preaching the gospel beforehand

Exodus 4:24-26 King James Version (KJV) And it came to pass by the way in the inn, that the Lord met him, and sought to kill him.
Then Zipporah took a sharp stone, and cut off the foreskin of her son, and cast it at his feet, and said, Surely a bloody husband art thou to me.So he let him go: then she said, A bloody husband thou art, because of the circumcision.

In Israel everyone stops work on the .sabbath. Apparently it is a really peaceful time, no traffic, everyone having a meal together, very relaxing. In NZ used to be very sabbath observant, actually nobody was even allowed to trade on the weekends, shops only open monday to friday. Also sport and racing etc was frowned upon. And it was not SDA teaching this is from the Bible!

The tradition of Sunday Roast was that after church you had your roast dinner, kind of like the sacrifice and thanksgiving at the end of the week and a gathering of family. Personally I dont know about the shops not being open but I kind of wish they werent trading 24/7 out of greed. Shopkeepers and shop assistants and all workers asssociated do need a day off. I used to work on .sundays as a requirement and hated it.

Post #307 gives a description of SDA Church in summary form.

There are many so called Kosher laws of men that were added as oral tradition of men who think the day was set aside for rest and relaxation and not the work of getting out the true fast by which Christ did cast our demons called the gospel. And the disciple who were following the Kosher fast could not. They had developed a three meal fast on the Sabbath making it about food they ate that which did make the word of God to no effect and therefore could not cast out the lying spirits .

The fast using Mana as a parable was to be prepared (baked or cooked) the day before . One person waited to the next day and gathered fire wood . I would think to cook the manna . No Sabbath law about keeping warm .

It was not the work of gathering as to the reason he was put to death but was violating the law to cook on the day before according to my understanding. It became a Kosher law of men no gathering wood as with the idea of how far a person could travel and many more requirements of men as oral traditions .

Therefore not understanding the purpose of the true fast in a hope of being heard on high as that could work to dispel demons as lying spirits..But the true fast used to get the gospel out into the world on a day when a person could have time from his normal schedule.


(Numbers 15:32-36)--"Now while the sons of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering wood on the sabbath day. 33And those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation; 34and they put him in custody because it had not been declared what should be done to him. 35Then the Lord said to Moses, "The man shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp." 36So all the congregation brought him outside the camp, and stoned him to death with stones, just as the Lord had commanded Moses..

This gives understanding as to why the person who made it all about his own self in a hope of being heard bragged about fasting twice of the Sabbath. Which for some reason the translated changed into twice a week a bi-weekly fast making the true context to no effect.

Luke 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

The sad fact is that the teachings of the Seventh Day Adventists are a mixture of truth and error. That is what happens when man-made teachings enter into any Christian group.

I did read post #307 thanks.
It says that the SDA church is governed by a general conference.

That is completely different from a church that is governed by Jesus as the head.

Being organized by a general conference is how the church is operated. Some denominations aren't structured that way and my understanding is that a church might be run by the offerings they collect each week our church sends the funds to the general conference and they pay our ministers salaries instead of each church paying the pastor for our ministers it makes for a regular paycheck and not a feast or famine situation. The conference does much more than that as it runs many programs and such.

Jesus is our head of the church he is our foundation and cornerstone just as the Bible states. I don't know where you are getting your information from but it isn't correct. Or you are taking liberty to assume how things are instead of what is really going on.

That should be the least of your concerns. No doubt they are a denomination, hence a general conference.

But a few of theirs teachings are off kilter, particularly Christ's ministry in the heavenly Sanctuary and Sunday worship as being the Mark of the Beast.

That is presumption.

You say it is not time sensitive. That is without evidence.
The Sabbath was given at creation. God created the Sabbath on the seventh day and gave it to mankind, God gave it to all mankind as a gift before sin entered and before shadows or anything to do with salvation was needed.
Sabbath Shadows do point to the substance in Christ, so i ask what is a Sabbath shadow?
The Sabbaths that were introduced as part of the ceremonial feasts and processes to help us understand what Jesus is and will do.

Heb 4 tells us that the Sabbath in the Ten commandments is the Sabbath that God rested on before sin.

Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

This command above is very time sensitive.

Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

God was specific about which day He blessed, hallowed and sanctified.
To say that any time will do, is like saying i want to do it my way.

Pro 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

I agree that yearly Sabbaths that were introduced because of Sin are a shadow, but the weekly Sabbath that was introduced before sin is a gift from God and commanded to keep for our protection.

Again the ceremonial Sabbath a fast used as a shadow is time sensitive, 1 day per week . The sabbath that it point to as a shadow is not.(Hebrew 4) It is anytime of the day or year that a person mixing faith (believes God not seen) when do apply his word to any situation and therefore do not harden their hearts in unbelief no faith. It reveals the principle found in Philippians 2:12 . believing God who works in us to both will and do his good pleasure as a imputed righteousness. God making our hearts soft

The once a week Sabbath is described as a fast. A day we can get the gospel out not having to do routine work to care for our own self . It has all but been made to no effect by the Jews who keep changing the requirements . And therefore it does not do what it was intended. The Jews developed a three times a day when they could eat as what they called Kosher meals and thought it was a day to relax from the normal routine calling that being heard on high . But God calls striking wicked fist as to resisting His will hardening their hearts in unbelief (no faith)

This should put it all to rest.

LISTEN PEOPLE. We cannot live under two covenants at the same time. God works in covenants.

Stop at once. Its only confusing people mixing covenants and making a mess of the bible. Take your pick: New Covenant, with no MANDATORY (its ok to keep the sabbath) feasts or sabbaths or circumcision. Keep the law of Christ, love your neighbor, and love God.
OR the mosaic covenant with circumcision feasts and sabbaths, but if you choose this one, dont be one of these hypocrites that only keep the sabbath half-way, bring the animal sacrifices in too, bring in the levite high-priest and congregating in Jerusalem, do it properly.

As for me and my house, we will pick the new covenant. Thank you very much. IVE BEEN DOWN THE JUDAIZER PATH BEFORE. It brings no peace NOR salvation. Take my word for it.

Have you ever been to Israel? Im asking because if you go to Tel Aviv you cant tell the difference between Sabbath and Tuesday. Israel is a secular country mostly. Contrary to what hebrew roots believers think, most jews couldnt care less about the Torah.

Jerusalem is definately more peaceful, particularly the west Jerusalem which tends to have more of an orthodox jewish population. The "newer" areas seem regular.