Speaking in tongues

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Dino246

Dino246

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#3,941
Jun 30, 2015
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#3,941
garee said:
Its not the prophecy called tongues spoken in many languages that is madness but that in which the sign points to .Those who refuse prophecy in any language to include Hebrew. And yet for all that they still refuse to hear prophecy .But rather do whatsoever their own mouths say as oral tradition of men that do make prophecy without effect.

Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye
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Conflating tongues and prophecy is an effective way of making the word of God to no effect by going above what is written.
 
Waggles

Waggles

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#3,942
notuptome said:
There is no evidence that they even remotely represent what God gave to the church. They are wholly inconsistent with scripture and cannot be the work of the Holy Spirit.
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Then why does God through the gifts of prophecy uphold and commend modern speaking in tongues and commands
us to pray fervently in the wonderful spiritual language that he has given to all those who are truly baptised in the
Holy Spirit in accordance to the gospel that is written for our salvation???

Do you know better than God himself how the spiritual realm works?
 
Waggles

Waggles

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#3,943
Sketch said:
This idea (doctrine) of "baptism for remission of sins".
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A fundamental component of the gospel and obedience unto salvation.
First scriptures clearly refer to water baptism as being integral to the remission of sins …
because water baptism is the consummation (putting into action) repentance in response to believing the gospel.
Our repentance towards our sins and dead works moves us to seek forgiveness and to start anew again, therefore,
we enter into the water and are submerged under water to represent death and come up out of the water to represent
resurrection: in response to this attitude and obedience God forgives our past sins and erases our sin record.

Then of course is the need to follow up on this by baptism in the Holy Spirit to receive the Spirit of adoption, truth
and power > hence our daily prayer language (praying in tongues, AKA praying in the Spirit) empowers us to overcome
the flesh, and to be constantly refreshed and edified.
 
Endoscopy

Endoscopy

Senior Member
#3,945
Oct 13, 2017
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#3,945
memawsboy said:
well septuagint was off. some say, some, that there is evidence that the old testament was originally written in hebrew, aramaic and greek. but what difference does it make. we have copies of the originals, they did not have zeroxes back in the day!
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The Old Testament was written in Hebrew and Aramaic a close language to Hebrew. None of it is written in Greek. The New Testament was written in koine Judeo Greek. The Jews modify language when they use it bringing in Hebrew concepts. They had problems doing it to Greek. They created a Judeo German called Yiddish. They had no need to modify English since it is based on Celtic, Latin, German and French. That's the reason for all of the contradictory rules.
 
notuptome

notuptome

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#3,946
May 17, 2013
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#3,946
bygrace said:
of course, anyone would if they did not take what was said in verses 1 to 8 and 9 to 13. Your error is you do not see the full context of the whole chapter you take one verse and build your bias around it. In addition, you refuse to see the context continues in chapter 14. That is why you are limited in your understanding. You displace immaturity in the word of God and a bais.
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Baloney.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#3,947
May 17, 2013
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#3,947
Waggles said:
Then why does God through the gifts of prophecy uphold and commend modern speaking in tongues and commands
us to pray fervently in the wonderful spiritual language that he has given to all those who are truly baptised in the
Holy Spirit in accordance to the gospel that is written for our salvation???

Do you know better than God himself how the spiritual realm works?
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That is conjecture on your part not biblical doctrine. You invent a "spiritual" language and deny the Holy Spirit. Angelic tongues in context are hyperbole. Praying in the Holy Spirit is not praying in tongues.

Jas 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
notuptome

notuptome

Senior Member
#3,948
May 17, 2013
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#3,948
Waggles said:
A fundamental component of the gospel and obedience unto salvation.
First scriptures clearly refer to water baptism as being integral to the remission of sins …
because water baptism is the consummation (putting into action) repentance in response to believing the gospel.
Our repentance towards our sins and dead works moves us to seek forgiveness and to start anew again, therefore,
we enter into the water and are submerged under water to represent death and come up out of the water to represent
resurrection: in response to this attitude and obedience God forgives our past sins and erases our sin record.

Then of course is the need to follow up on this by baptism in the Holy Spirit to receive the Spirit of adoption, truth
and power > hence our daily prayer language (praying in tongues, AKA praying in the Spirit) empowers us to overcome
the flesh, and to be constantly refreshed and edified.
Click to expand...
Baptized in the Holy Spirit the moment we believe and receive Christ. Water is only an outward ceremony and does not add to salvation. The rest is simply malarkey. A construct of men and not of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
B

bygrace

Active member
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Dec 3, 2018
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notuptome said:
That is conjecture on your part not biblical doctrine. You invent a "spiritual" language and deny the Holy Spirit. Angelic tongues in context are hyperbole. Praying in the Holy Spirit is not praying in tongues.

Jas 5:16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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If that is not the pot calling the Kettle black. You do the very thing in your understanding of 1cor 13:8. Paul in the very verse of 1cor 13:8 Never said: " they have ceased". Paul never said, " Knowledge Has ceased". Yet you built a whole new doctrine on ONE Verse and did so with hyperbole. You prideful arrogant man.
 
B

bygrace

Active member
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Dec 3, 2018
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notuptome said:
Baptized in the Holy Spirit the moment we believe and receive Christ. Water is only an outward ceremony and does not add to salvation. The rest is simply malarkey. A construct of men and not of God.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Would love you to prove your point with the word of God.
 
Sketch

Sketch

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Nov 1, 2018
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#3,952
notuptome said:
I believe scripture. 1 Cor 13:8 is true and seen as literal not figurative.
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It what sense is 1 Cor 13:8 literal?
How can what is "perfect" not be taken as figurative?
It must be representative of something.
 
P

presidente

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May 29, 2013
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notuptome said:
Paul was not writing of tongues in chapter one but repeating the necessity of believers to utter the truth of the gospel in every part of their life.

1 Cor 1:1 ¶ Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
3 Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.
4 I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ;
5 That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge;
6 Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you:
7 So that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ:
8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

This is a call to sanctification while we await the return of Christ. To be witnesses and a living testimony for Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Look at verses 4-6. We are to use the gifts to minister to one another as good stewards of the manifold grace of God (See I Peter 4.) Compare that to verse 4. The church is enrciched in utterance and knowledge partly due to spiritual gifts like those found in I Corinthians 12, including the gifts of prophecy and the word of knowledge. Paul did not expect his readers to fall behind in any spiritual gift before Jesus came back. Why would any of the spiritual gifts he was preparing to write about be excluded from verse 7? That does not make sense. Verse 8's reference to being blameless does not do away with the reference to spiritual gifts in verse 7.
 
P

presidente

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garee said:
I have more signs, or the scriptures speaks of more signs ?

Are there no signs with water baptism ?
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If you think signs are only for them who do not believe, do you think all those who get baptized are unbelieving people who refuse to believe God? I don't see how you can reconcile your idea of baptism being a sign with the pages of stuff you have repeatedly written against signs.
 
P

presidente

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May 29, 2013
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notuptome said:
Interesting conjecture. Not sound reasoning since Paul is referring to the captivity of Israel as Gods judgment on apostate Israel.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Paul clearly applies it to the unbeliever or unlearned man who hears speaking in tongues in the church. Read the passage. Notice the 'wherefore' and other connecting words in the passage.
 
P

presidente

Senior Member
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May 29, 2013
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#3,958
garee said:
Its not the prophecy called tongues spoken in many languages that is madness but that in which the sign points to .Those who refuse prophecy in any language to include Hebrew. And yet for all that they still refuse to hear prophecy .But rather do whatsoever their own mouths say as oral tradition of men that do make prophecy without effect.
Click to expand...
Paul contrasts praying with tongues with praying with his mind. There is something else going on here besides speaking naturally and normally in a foreign language.
 
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