2 verses that refute all forms of Premillennialism
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Matt 27:
50And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.
51At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and e went into the holy city and appeared to many people.
The sign of Jonah was for a perverse generation that is always after a sign. Jesus said no other sign until the very end of age which will come to them like a thief in the night. So, no rapture.
50And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.
51At that moment the curtain of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom. The earth shook, the rocks split 52and the tombs broke open. The bodies of many holy people who had died were raised to life. 53They came out of the tombs after Jesus’ resurrection and e went into the holy city and appeared to many people.
The sign of Jonah was for a perverse generation that is always after a sign. Jesus said no other sign until the very end of age which will come to them like a thief in the night. So, no rapture.
So coming like a "thief in the the night" can only mean premillennialism? Why couldn't He come like a "thief in the night" with amillennialism? Or postmillennialism? Or partial-preterism? Simple fact is He could come like a thief in all those scenarios.
I gave you two verses in the original post of this thread that show all forms of premillennialism are false. I noticed you didn't address them. How do you explain those 2 verses?
I gave you two verses in the original post of this thread that show all forms of premillennialism are false. I noticed you didn't address them. How do you explain those 2 verses?
Your "two verses" that refute premill can be done by me too, watch this:
TWO VERSES THAT COMPLETELY REFUTE ALL FORMS OF AMILLENNIALISM!
Amilennialists claim we are in the millennium now, and that satan is bound from deceiving the nations. However if we follow satan's "travel log" in the book of Revelation, we see that PRIOR to being bound, he is deceiving the whole world, and wont stop doing so until he is bound at the beginning of the millennium. We can also read a newspaper and notice that the entire world is in deception right now, hinduism, buddhism, etc etc.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Conclusively PROVING the devil is deceiving the whole world, and NOT BOUND currently. Amillennialism already debunked.
I could easily make another post REFUTING the first resurrection being spiritual. Its not that you got the golden goose Delirious. Dismantling amillennialism is easy work. Its an inconsistent hermeneutic as the experts say. The reformers took all the salvation passages and other parts of the Bible one way, but when it came to prophetic writings, Israel no longer means Israel, and Jerusalem no longer means Jerusalem. etc. It saddens me to read those 1800s commentaries from bible hub, those guys straight up just make things up. The bible says Jerusalem, the commentators say "Gospel church". The bible says Judah, the commentators say "church".
TWO VERSES THAT COMPLETELY REFUTE ALL FORMS OF AMILLENNIALISM!
Amilennialists claim we are in the millennium now, and that satan is bound from deceiving the nations. However if we follow satan's "travel log" in the book of Revelation, we see that PRIOR to being bound, he is deceiving the whole world, and wont stop doing so until he is bound at the beginning of the millennium. We can also read a newspaper and notice that the entire world is in deception right now, hinduism, buddhism, etc etc.
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
Rev 16:14 For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
Conclusively PROVING the devil is deceiving the whole world, and NOT BOUND currently. Amillennialism already debunked.
I could easily make another post REFUTING the first resurrection being spiritual. Its not that you got the golden goose Delirious. Dismantling amillennialism is easy work. Its an inconsistent hermeneutic as the experts say. The reformers took all the salvation passages and other parts of the Bible one way, but when it came to prophetic writings, Israel no longer means Israel, and Jerusalem no longer means Jerusalem. etc. It saddens me to read those 1800s commentaries from bible hub, those guys straight up just make things up. The bible says Jerusalem, the commentators say "Gospel church". The bible says Judah, the commentators say "church".
You took those 2 verses out of context. I didn't take mine out of context.
The end of Rev 11 is the end of the world. Rev 12 goes back to the birth of Christ. Rev 19 is also the end of the world. Rev 20 goes back to the birth of Christ. Please keep things in context.
Rev 12 starts with the birth of Christ just like Rev 20 does. I noticed in Rev 12: 7 you highlighted "deceives the whole world" and then ignored the words that immediately followed that. HE WAS CAST OUT. He was "deceiving the whole world" before Christ came.
John 12: 31, "Now is the judgment of this world. Now is the ruler of this world cast out." Jesus was talking about Himself going to the cross in this verse. Luke 10: 18, "I saw satan fall like lightning from heaven." Same language as Rev 12 and happened at the cross.
Rev 13: 14 isn't even about the devil but the false prophet so you misapplied that to the devil.
So you debunked nothing because you misapplied one verse about the false prophet and the other one in Rev 12: 9 is about what happened at the cross which confirms the amillennial timeline.
The end of Rev 11 is the end of the world. Rev 12 goes back to the birth of Christ. Rev 19 is also the end of the world. Rev 20 goes back to the birth of Christ. Please keep things in context.
Rev 12 starts with the birth of Christ just like Rev 20 does. I noticed in Rev 12: 7 you highlighted "deceives the whole world" and then ignored the words that immediately followed that. HE WAS CAST OUT. He was "deceiving the whole world" before Christ came.
John 12: 31, "Now is the judgment of this world. Now is the ruler of this world cast out." Jesus was talking about Himself going to the cross in this verse. Luke 10: 18, "I saw satan fall like lightning from heaven." Same language as Rev 12 and happened at the cross.
Rev 13: 14 isn't even about the devil but the false prophet so you misapplied that to the devil.
So you debunked nothing because you misapplied one verse about the false prophet and the other one in Rev 12: 9 is about what happened at the cross which confirms the amillennial timeline.
Rev 20 does NOT start with the birth of Christ. YOU JUST MADE THAT UP BRO!
I was in context!
The false prophet is POWERED by the devil, which would be impossible if he was bound.
Grasping at straws!
I would argue that nobody who got saved without prior indoctrination from catholic or other amil sources could read through the book of revelation and come out thinking the millenium is the church era!
I was in context!
The false prophet is POWERED by the devil, which would be impossible if he was bound.
Grasping at straws!
I would argue that nobody who got saved without prior indoctrination from catholic or other amil sources could read through the book of revelation and come out thinking the millenium is the church era!
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You were not in context. I already showed that. We can disagree on when Rev 20 starts.
Since I already refuted your 2 verses in my last post I wanted to mention the 2 verses I presented once again and make it as simple as I can.
Job 14: 12 says "Man does not rise until the heavens are no more". Premillennialism lies and say man does. Premillennialism is proven false by Scripture.
Rev 11: 18 and Rev 20: 11-15 are the only 2 places in the Bible we see "the dead being judged". One is the seventh trumpet and the other is the Great White Throne judgment. So we need to ask ourselves this simple question:
Are the dead judged twice? Hebrews 9: 27, "It is given to man once to die and then THE judgment." The definite article. One judgment for every man.
So we know that when the seventh trumpet sounds "the dead are judged" and the Great White Throne Judgment begins after it sounds.
We know from Rev 20 that the Great White Throne happens after the 1,000 years earlier in the chapter.
Therefore, the seventh trumpet is after the 1,000 years of Rev 20. Not before like the premillennialist falsely claims. He must say the seventh trumpet is before to make room for his false doctrine of Christ ruling on earth for 1,000 years. It has been demonstrated conclusively using Scripture, and the simple timeline from Rev 20, that the seventh trumpet is after the 1,000 years.
Both Job 14: 12 and Rev 11; 18 when combined with the GWT judgment in Rev 20: 11-15 make it IMPOSSIBLE for any form of premillennialism to be true.
If you want to believe in fantasies that is up to you. If I was presented with conclusive evidence I would change my position.
Since I already refuted your 2 verses in my last post I wanted to mention the 2 verses I presented once again and make it as simple as I can.
Job 14: 12 says "Man does not rise until the heavens are no more". Premillennialism lies and say man does. Premillennialism is proven false by Scripture.
Rev 11: 18 and Rev 20: 11-15 are the only 2 places in the Bible we see "the dead being judged". One is the seventh trumpet and the other is the Great White Throne judgment. So we need to ask ourselves this simple question:
Are the dead judged twice? Hebrews 9: 27, "It is given to man once to die and then THE judgment." The definite article. One judgment for every man.
So we know that when the seventh trumpet sounds "the dead are judged" and the Great White Throne Judgment begins after it sounds.
We know from Rev 20 that the Great White Throne happens after the 1,000 years earlier in the chapter.
Therefore, the seventh trumpet is after the 1,000 years of Rev 20. Not before like the premillennialist falsely claims. He must say the seventh trumpet is before to make room for his false doctrine of Christ ruling on earth for 1,000 years. It has been demonstrated conclusively using Scripture, and the simple timeline from Rev 20, that the seventh trumpet is after the 1,000 years.
Both Job 14: 12 and Rev 11; 18 when combined with the GWT judgment in Rev 20: 11-15 make it IMPOSSIBLE for any form of premillennialism to be true.
If you want to believe in fantasies that is up to you. If I was presented with conclusive evidence I would change my position.
If you want to believe in fantasies that is up to you. If I was presented with conclusive evidence I would change my position.
We have dealt with these two verses already, a bunch of people have.
As to is there more than one judgment for all, YES there is.
You completely skipped the judgment seat of Christ! Which is DIFFERENT from the Great White Throne judgment.
One can still like delusionals, since delirium can lead to delusions.
"Delirium, also known as acute confusional state, is an organically caused decline from a previously baseline level of mental function. It often varies in severity over a short period of time, and includes attentional deficits, and disorganization of behavior. It typically involves other cognitive deficits..."
"Delirium, also known as acute confusional state, is an organically caused decline from a previously baseline level of mental function. It often varies in severity over a short period of time, and includes attentional deficits, and disorganization of behavior. It typically involves other cognitive deficits..."
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Nah.
It's not "the end of the WORLD" but "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" and His disciples understood correctly that "the age [singular] TO COME" (Mt12:32) FOLLOWED from THERE. (What they didn't understand [at the time of their Matt24:3 Qs (based on the Matt13 things He'd ALREADY covered with them)] was that "this present [/evil] age [singular]," what is commonly known as "the Church age," would be taking place, as it is, "NOW"--passages saying "this present age [singular]" and "this present evil age [singular]" and "the present truth"--they had no understanding of, when they had asked Jesus their Qs in Matt24:3; and His response did not involve it, either)
[note: "age" in the singular always refers to earthly time periods]
It's not "the end of the WORLD" but "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" and His disciples understood correctly that "the age [singular] TO COME" (Mt12:32) FOLLOWED from THERE. (What they didn't understand [at the time of their Matt24:3 Qs (based on the Matt13 things He'd ALREADY covered with them)] was that "this present [/evil] age [singular]," what is commonly known as "the Church age," would be taking place, as it is, "NOW"--passages saying "this present age [singular]" and "this present evil age [singular]" and "the present truth"--they had no understanding of, when they had asked Jesus their Qs in Matt24:3; and His response did not involve it, either)
[note: "age" in the singular always refers to earthly time periods]
No, you guys haven't, except for a few really bad attempts that failed.
They both happen at the Great White Throne and are the SAME judgment which is the GWT.
I appreciate that and I have nothing against anybody in these forums. I enjoy discussing different subjects with many of the people on here, including you. We are all just trying to get at the truth of what the Scripture says.
I must admit, I marvel that you guys hold on to premillennialism so tenaciously. The timeline of Rev 20 shows that the seventh trumpet of Rev 11: 18 is after the 1,000 years. Therefore it cannot be before like the premill needs it to be. Therefore the premill position cannot be true according to Scripture. Job 14: 12 also confirms this.
I have tried my best but if people refuse to see it they will remain blind and with false doctrine.
They both happen at the Great White Throne and are the SAME judgment which is the GWT.
I appreciate that and I have nothing against anybody in these forums. I enjoy discussing different subjects with many of the people on here, including you. We are all just trying to get at the truth of what the Scripture says.
I must admit, I marvel that you guys hold on to premillennialism so tenaciously. The timeline of Rev 20 shows that the seventh trumpet of Rev 11: 18 is after the 1,000 years. Therefore it cannot be before like the premill needs it to be. Therefore the premill position cannot be true according to Scripture. Job 14: 12 also confirms this.
I have tried my best but if people refuse to see it they will remain blind and with false doctrine.
^ Nope. Rev1:1, when speaking of the "FUTURE aspects" of the book ("things which must come to pass" like in 4:1), says that they "must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]…" [regarding the TIMELINE Rev4:1 through 19], NOT over the course of thousands of years (and this agrees with the OTHER places where this "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" is used, like in Lk18:8 [context still in Lk17-end, IMO (and re: His 2nd Coming to the earth and the events surrounding THAT)] re: "avenge them IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]"... and in Romans 16:20 [addressed to "the Church which is His body" (note: 1Cor6:3[14] in this regard)], "bruise Satan under your feet IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]."
[the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" refers to the specific future limited TIME PERIOD that leads UP TO His Second Coming to the earth, lasting only "7-yrs/ONE WEEK/2520 days" (it involves the "signs" the "man of sin" and the "seals/trumpets/vials" etc)]
[the "IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" refers to the specific future limited TIME PERIOD that leads UP TO His Second Coming to the earth, lasting only "7-yrs/ONE WEEK/2520 days" (it involves the "signs" the "man of sin" and the "seals/trumpets/vials" etc)]
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I'm still trying to figure out how those TWO verses quoted as the bait for this forum come near to destroying "calvinism"
You cannot vanquish a Calvinist
You may think you can, but you cannot. The stones of the great doctrines so fit into each other that the more pressure there is applied to remove them, the more strenuously do they adhere. And you may mark that you cannot receive one of these doctrines without believing all.
C. H. Spurgeon
You cannot vanquish a Calvinist
You may think you can, but you cannot. The stones of the great doctrines so fit into each other that the more pressure there is applied to remove them, the more strenuously do they adhere. And you may mark that you cannot receive one of these doctrines without believing all.
C. H. Spurgeon
No, you guys haven't, except for a few really bad attempts that failed.
They both happen at the Great White Throne and are the SAME judgment which is the GWT.
I appreciate that and I have nothing against anybody in these forums. I enjoy discussing different subjects with many of the people on here, including you. We are all just trying to get at the truth of what the Scripture says.
I must admit, I marvel that you guys hold on to premillennialism so tenaciously. The timeline of Rev 20 shows that the seventh trumpet of Rev 11: 18 is after the 1,000 years. Therefore it cannot be before like the premill needs it to be. Therefore the premill position cannot be true according to Scripture. Job 14: 12 also confirms this.
I have tried my best but if people refuse to see it they will remain blind and with false doctrine.
They both happen at the Great White Throne and are the SAME judgment which is the GWT.
I appreciate that and I have nothing against anybody in these forums. I enjoy discussing different subjects with many of the people on here, including you. We are all just trying to get at the truth of what the Scripture says.
I must admit, I marvel that you guys hold on to premillennialism so tenaciously. The timeline of Rev 20 shows that the seventh trumpet of Rev 11: 18 is after the 1,000 years. Therefore it cannot be before like the premill needs it to be. Therefore the premill position cannot be true according to Scripture. Job 14: 12 also confirms this.
I have tried my best but if people refuse to see it they will remain blind and with false doctrine.