Not By Works
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Ah but why did they come to him?
Did he not seek out the lost?
Did he not go to Zacchaeus?
He went and loved people where they were at and they responded.
He did great things.
The word spread.
Yet people still sought him out for the wrong reasons
John 6:26-40
26 Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. 27 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”
28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
30 Therefore they said to Him, “What sign will You perform then, that we may see it and believe You? What work will You do? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’ ”
32 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
34 Then they said to Him, “Lord, give us this bread always.”
35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
They only sought him because they probably wanted more food.
But then he turns it around.
"Seek to eat food that ensures and gives everlasting life"
"What works shall we do, the works of God they say"
Jesus said "This is the workof God, that you believe in him whom he sent"
Then they have the audacity to ask him what sign will you do so that we believe in you.
As if he had not proven himself already.
They hungered after the wrong thing but Jesus addressed that.
But the truth is they came to him.
They would never have done that if he had not gone into the world, the real world.
You want to try it, try being like Jesus.
And if they reject it then as Jesus says "Walk away"
But we must be careful and respsonsive to the Holy Spirit to walking away.
Jesus never rejected Peter, even though Peter rejected Jesus.
If we do not go out into highways and byways people will not know about Jesus.
If we do not love people like Jesus they will not know what true love is.
As you say
I would say that you not are saved by grace through faith in order to good works.
Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
From what I see about you is that you have no idea what good works are, come to that lawlessness either as you quote on one hand works of the flesh then bang on about believing in a long haired pretty boy Jesus who is akin to a centrefold in a pornogrphic magazine.
Oh well never mind.
Did he not seek out the lost?
Did he not go to Zacchaeus?
He went and loved people where they were at and they responded.
He did great things.
The word spread.
Yet people still sought him out for the wrong reasons
John 6:26-40
26 Jesus answered them and said, “Most assuredly, I say to you, you seek Me, not because you saw the signs, but because you ate of the loaves and were filled. 27 Do not labor for the food which perishes, but for the food which endures to everlasting life, which the Son of Man will give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him.”
28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
30 Therefore they said to Him, “What sign will You perform then, that we may see it and believe You? What work will You do? 31 Our fathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.’ ”
32 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, Moses did not give you the bread from heaven, but My Father gives you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
34 Then they said to Him, “Lord, give us this bread always.”
35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst. 36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe. 37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 And this is the will of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
They only sought him because they probably wanted more food.
But then he turns it around.
"Seek to eat food that ensures and gives everlasting life"
"What works shall we do, the works of God they say"
Jesus said "This is the workof God, that you believe in him whom he sent"
Then they have the audacity to ask him what sign will you do so that we believe in you.
As if he had not proven himself already.
They hungered after the wrong thing but Jesus addressed that.
But the truth is they came to him.
They would never have done that if he had not gone into the world, the real world.
You want to try it, try being like Jesus.
And if they reject it then as Jesus says "Walk away"
But we must be careful and respsonsive to the Holy Spirit to walking away.
Jesus never rejected Peter, even though Peter rejected Jesus.
If we do not go out into highways and byways people will not know about Jesus.
If we do not love people like Jesus they will not know what true love is.
As you say
I would say that you not are saved by grace through faith in order to good works.
Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
From what I see about you is that you have no idea what good works are, come to that lawlessness either as you quote on one hand works of the flesh then bang on about believing in a long haired pretty boy Jesus who is akin to a centrefold in a pornogrphic magazine.
Oh well never mind.
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Of course I strive every day to "Depart from Iniquity". Don't you? shouldn't all who call Him Lord, Lord, strive to obey Him? And I am more obedient today, than 27 years ago. Is that not "Growing in the Lord"? And shall I not learn obedience from the things I suffer like He learned obedience from the things He suffered? Am I not to suffer with Him?
Heb. 5:
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Is He not also making me perfect? Is He not the Author of my Faith and Salvation? Shall I listen to Him and obey?
2 Cor. 1: 5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ.
6 And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.
7 And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.
Phil. 3:
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Heb. 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
I thought "departing iniquity" was "Growing in the Lord". But "many" who come in His Name on this forum, call that "trying to save myself" and they preach against such behavior, calling anyone who would trust this Jesus names.
What spirit would want me to reject so much of what the Christ teaches just so modern religions and their man made religious traditions can be justified?
I'm not going to do it, I'm sticking with His Word's even if it makes the religious men of the modern religions of the land angry. It's not like that has never happened before.
Heb. 5:
8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
Is He not also making me perfect? Is He not the Author of my Faith and Salvation? Shall I listen to Him and obey?
2 Cor. 1: 5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ.
6 And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.
7 And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.
Phil. 3:
10 That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11 If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14 I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Heb. 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
I thought "departing iniquity" was "Growing in the Lord". But "many" who come in His Name on this forum, call that "trying to save myself" and they preach against such behavior, calling anyone who would trust this Jesus names.
What spirit would want me to reject so much of what the Christ teaches just so modern religions and their man made religious traditions can be justified?
I'm not going to do it, I'm sticking with His Word's even if it makes the religious men of the modern religions of the land angry. It's not like that has never happened before.
VERY GOOD POST, especially that part.
Those who insist on presenting FALSE DOCTRINE and a FALSE GOSPEL, I know I give them way more chances than I should.
Here is what Paul says:
Titus 3:9-11 (HCSB)
9 But avoid foolish debates, genealogies, quarrels, and disputes about the law, for they are unprofitable and worthless.
10 Reject a divisive person after a first and second warning,
11 knowing that such a person is perverted and sins, being self-condemned.
And I give them more chances than that, hoping they might come to repentance. And yet they never do.
Some People CRITICIZE me, saying that when I do put them on the IGNORE LIST, that I am UNLOVING, or NOT TOLERANT, or just being RUDE, when I put them on the IGNORE LIST. When I know even JESUS SAID:
Mark 6:11 (HCSB)
11 If any place does not welcome you and people refuse to listen to you, when you leave there, shake the dust off your feet as a testimony against them.”
To me on this thread, that means PUT THEM ON THE IGNORE LIST. I know I am far more LENIENT than JESUS or Paul. But I at least do use the IGNORE LIST Options, which I personally think that is far better than to give them a continuous Sounding Board for their False Doctrines, and False Gospels.
I found this Picture while searching to see how many I do have on the IGNORE LIST.
I Think this is WORTH SHARING WITH YOU ALL.
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For the first scripture, it is an encouragement, not a fact. In v5 he also sets the context: those who are participating with Him in the gospel; he has confidence in them since their works testify to their faith. The language explicitly says its a confidence. If it were a fact, it would be stated differently just as other facts are in scripture. Hebrews 10:14 is harder and i will need to study this further, but the fact that in the same chapter with the warning about continual sinning tells me that the passage on its own is probably not what we think.....
From day one men have been trying or believing they could offer works....
Adam and Eve -->Made fig leaf aprons
Cain -->Offered the works of his hands
Pharisees-->Some law keeping drivel
Galatians is clear....faith plus works to gain or finish salvation = double cursed false gospel of a different kind with no power to save, all who believe it are fools and bewitched
Exactly why the number that is rejected is MANY....and note....the believe they KNOW JESUS and even call him LORD and they fully expect to enter based upon what they have done...
Faith plus works is what they believed and peddled....same false gospel that many so called Christian religilns peddle to this very day!!
Adam and Eve -->Made fig leaf aprons
Cain -->Offered the works of his hands
Pharisees-->Some law keeping drivel
Galatians is clear....faith plus works to gain or finish salvation = double cursed false gospel of a different kind with no power to save, all who believe it are fools and bewitched
Exactly why the number that is rejected is MANY....and note....the believe they KNOW JESUS and even call him LORD and they fully expect to enter based upon what they have done...
Faith plus works is what they believed and peddled....same false gospel that many so called Christian religilns peddle to this very day!!
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No, I understand it just fine....you on the other hand seem to conflate the issues and in so doing peddle that which is double cursed with no power to save....See Galatians, Titus, 2nd Timothy, Ephesians, John, Romans 3 and 4 etc........then top off with 1st Corinthians 3 and expalain what type of work wood, hay and stubble equates to......yeah...I know the context!
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What "many" who come in His name seem to always omit from their posts, is that had it not been for the Christ's obedience to His Father, He could not have forgiven any man. His "works of kindness" were only accepted by His father because He was Faithful Son, not like Adam.
He didn't reject the Father's instructions as the Mainstream Preachers of His time did. He was a faithful Son.
My point is that if I am not "working together" with the Christ to be a Faithful Son, then all those righteous looking works, like feeding random poor folks in His Name, singing Jesus happy birthday, or whatever the religious traditions is, means nothing because Jesus said, if I practice iniquity, He doesn't know me. It doesn't matter if I rid folks of a gambling demon, or a drinking demon in His Name. or if I do all manner of righteous looking things in His Name.
He didn't say "if you want to enter heaven, feed random poor people". He didn't say "If you Love Me, feed random poor people".
He didn't say "And showing Mercy to thousands of people who Love Me and feed random poor people".
Jesus would never promote a religion which creates images of God in the Likeness of man. He would never reject His Fathers Sabbath for an ancient pagan High Day.
If I am to be like Jesus, that would also include respect and obedience to His Father first and foremost, as the First and greatest Commandment commands.
If I am tricked or convinced to reject or ignore this first and greatest commandment, then He says He doesn't even know me, and rightly so.
If we were led by the Word of God without all the religious "Other Voices" influencing us, it would be a no-brainer IMO. But as Jesus said "offences must come".
He didn't reject the Father's instructions as the Mainstream Preachers of His time did. He was a faithful Son.
My point is that if I am not "working together" with the Christ to be a Faithful Son, then all those righteous looking works, like feeding random poor folks in His Name, singing Jesus happy birthday, or whatever the religious traditions is, means nothing because Jesus said, if I practice iniquity, He doesn't know me. It doesn't matter if I rid folks of a gambling demon, or a drinking demon in His Name. or if I do all manner of righteous looking things in His Name.
He didn't say "if you want to enter heaven, feed random poor people". He didn't say "If you Love Me, feed random poor people".
He didn't say "And showing Mercy to thousands of people who Love Me and feed random poor people".
Jesus would never promote a religion which creates images of God in the Likeness of man. He would never reject His Fathers Sabbath for an ancient pagan High Day.
If I am to be like Jesus, that would also include respect and obedience to His Father first and foremost, as the First and greatest Commandment commands.
If I am tricked or convinced to reject or ignore this first and greatest commandment, then He says He doesn't even know me, and rightly so.
If we were led by the Word of God without all the religious "Other Voices" influencing us, it would be a no-brainer IMO. But as Jesus said "offences must come".
you know, I wonder - how many of these Bible-thumper, command and Law keepers have ever actually read the Bible all the way through, just one time.
not that I would get an honest answer from that bunch ( the Lord mentioned several times in the O.T. about only using HONEST weights and measures, guess they skipped those verses ?? )
not that I would get an honest answer from that bunch ( the Lord mentioned several times in the O.T. about only using HONEST weights and measures, guess they skipped those verses ?? )
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I will never understand how anyone can peddle...
a. saved by works
b. saved by law keeping
c. saved by commandment keeping
d. saved by a faith plus a,b,c blend
when the bible is clear concerning the purpose of the laws, commandments and states clearly that works are not part of the saving equation.
Any addition to Jesus and faith devalues Jesus and faith while interjecting self into the equation....anything that takes away from ALL GLORY going to CHRIST while placing on us and what we do or have done brings CHRIST down and lifts us to a position where we can glory.
No one will ever convince me that it goes beyond grace thru faith into the finished work of Christ for salvation....salvation that is complete and eternal and beyond the ability to be revoked and or lost!!
a. saved by works
b. saved by law keeping
c. saved by commandment keeping
d. saved by a faith plus a,b,c blend
when the bible is clear concerning the purpose of the laws, commandments and states clearly that works are not part of the saving equation.
Any addition to Jesus and faith devalues Jesus and faith while interjecting self into the equation....anything that takes away from ALL GLORY going to CHRIST while placing on us and what we do or have done brings CHRIST down and lifts us to a position where we can glory.
No one will ever convince me that it goes beyond grace thru faith into the finished work of Christ for salvation....salvation that is complete and eternal and beyond the ability to be revoked and or lost!!
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First of all I'm not a Jew so I am not or ever have I been under the law of Moses. I'm not putting myself back anywhere I've never been. I'm not cursed.
Does suffering for Jesus aside from believing will make me an unbeliever who would say that Jesus lied?
Who does the work of sending the Son and who does the believing of the One that was sent?
He sent the Son that you may believe. (John 3:16) and not only to believe but also to suffer for Him (philippians 1:29) and to obey His commands (john 14:15-31) which is to LOVE GOD and one another (john 13:34-35) because LOVE is the fulfillment of the law. (Romans 13:10
Does suffering for Jesus aside from believing will make me an unbeliever who would say that Jesus lied?
Who does the work of sending the Son and who does the believing of the One that was sent?
He sent the Son that you may believe. (John 3:16) and not only to believe but also to suffer for Him (philippians 1:29) and to obey His commands (john 14:15-31) which is to LOVE GOD and one another (john 13:34-35) because LOVE is the fulfillment of the law. (Romans 13:10
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