There are only 2 Persons in the Israelite Godhead, not 3 Persons

FlyingDove · Dec 12, 2018

Scripture declares that the Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4).

Acts 5:3
But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
(Note Peter say's: You've lied to the Holy Spirit. You can't lie to an inanimate object)

4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
(NOTE: A declaration that lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God. Again, you can't lie to an inanimate object)

Acts 13:2 As they ministered to the Lord, and fasted, the Holy Spirit said, Separate me Barnabas and Saul for the work whereunto I have called them.
(NOTE: The Holy Spirit "SAID" Separate me Barnabas & Saul for the work ""I"" have called them for)
He The Holy Spirit speaks again in (Acts 28:25)

John 16:8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
(NOTE: When "HE" is come, "HE" will. Context from vs 7: "HE" is the Comforter)

Matt 12:31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
(NOTE: The only unforgiveable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Ghost)

32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
(NOTE: It's not the Father thee Son will send? It's not the Son that comes here & testifies of Himself?)

JimmieD · Dec 12, 2018

YehovaYeshua said:

Is 63:10 But they rebelled And grieved His Holy Spirit; Therefore He turned Himself to become their enemy, He fought against them.

How can an impersonal "thing" be grieved? Not to mention that this verse could be read that His Spirit became their enemy and fought against them.

A problem with binitarianism is that the Spirit has person-qualities, like being grieved (among others).

A second problem would be the requirement in Matthew to baptize in "the Name" of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. It would seem here that the Holy Spirit shares in "the Name" just as the Father and Son do, which would imply personhood and sharing equally in the divine nature.

Zmouth · Dec 12, 2018

eternally-gratefull said:

So correct me if I am wrong but don't you claim to have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit? Of course as you probably already know that Paul wrote in 2 Cor 13:5, "...Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?"

So considering the verse in Luke 1:35 wherein it is written, "... therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." then what thing do those who are evil receive of their father?

eternally-gratefull said:

Seeing that it is written that God is a Spirit [See John 4:24] it takes some real creative math to divide God and the Spirit from one into two personages.

Endoscopy · Dec 12, 2018

YehovaYeshua said:

When I Googled the subject "Trinity" it said that it was Tertullian who in the third century AD began to advocate that the Holy Spirit is a person.

I don't believe in the Trinity, the concept that there are THREE Persons in the Israelite Godhead.

I only believe that there are TWO Persons in the Israelite Godhead.

There is God the Father of the Old Testament and there is God the Son.

As for God the Father:

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD.

(The above word "LORD" is the word "Yehova" in Hebrew)

And this God Jehova has a Son:

Psalm 2:12
Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and you perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little.

Galatians 4:4
But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman.

But the most important Biblical evidence that there are only TWO Persons in the Israelite Godhead is found in the letters of Paul.

At the beginning of ALL Paul's letters, Paul ONLY BRINGS GREETINGS to the Church from GOD THE FATHER and from the LORD JESUS CHRIST ... and then, Paul... STOPS! Let's look at those verses:

Romans 1:7
To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:3
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Corinthians 1:2
Grace be to you and peace from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Galatians 1:3
Grace be to you and peace from God the Father, and from our Lord Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 1:2
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Philippians 1:2
Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

Colossians 1:2
To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ who are at Colosse: Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians 1:1
Paul and Silvanus and Timotheus, to the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.

2 Thessalonians 1:2
Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

1 Timothy 1:2
To Timothy, my own son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

2 Timothy 1:2
To Timothy, my dearly beloved son: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord.

Titus 1:4
To Titus, my own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

Philemon 1:3
Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

NOW, if Paul had considered the Holy Spirit to be a Person, would not Paul also have sent greetings from the Holy Spirit to the Church?

Indeed, the Bible says instead that the Spirit is the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Jesus Christ:

1 Corinthians 3:16
Don't you know that you are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

Galatians 4:6
And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

So clearly the Spirit is something that belongs to God the father and that belongs to God the Son.

Again, if anyone in the New Testament would have known whether the Holy Spirit was a person like God the Father and like God the Son ... Paul would have certainly known it and Paul would also have sent greetings from the Holy Spirit and the reason Paul NEVER did is because Paul knew that the Holy Spirit was not a person.

There are only TWO Persons in the Israelite Godhead, God the Father and God the Son Jesus Christ.

It was Tertullian who in the third century AD floated the idea that the Holy Spirit was a person and the modern church has adopted it Hook, Line & Sinker.

Here is the Great Commission. Explain away the trinity shown in this commission all Christians are to follow. Remember these are the words of Jesus!!

Mathew 28:16 to 20 (great commission) AMPC (Amplified Classic)

16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed and made appointment with them.
17 And when they saw Him, they fell down and worshiped Him; but some doubted.
18 Jesus approached and, breaking the silence, said to them, All authority (all power of rule) in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
19 Go then and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 Teaching them to observe everything that I have commanded you, and behold, I am with you all the days (perpetually, uniformly, and on every occasion), to the [very] close and consummation of the age. Amen (so let it be).

Zmouth · Dec 12, 2018

FlyingDove said:

Since Jesus taught that those whose father was the devil will do the lusts of their father they will do according to John 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do." And the verse concluded with the following "When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." Then if a person is evil, wouldn't their heavenly father be Satan since every good gift only comes from above?

Thus in John 8:47 it is written that he says to those whose heavenly father was the devil "He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God." So based uon Luke 11:13 it seems pretty evident that the Holy Spirit is inanimate object.

Endoscopy · Dec 12, 2018

Zmouth said:

Since Jesus taught that those whose father was the devil will do the lusts of their father they will do according to John 8:44 "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do." And the verse concluded with the following "When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." Then if a person is evil, wouldn't their heavenly father be Satan since every good gift only comes from above?

Thus in John 8:47 it is written that he says to those whose heavenly father was the devil "He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God." So based uon Luke 11:13 it seems pretty evident that the Holy Spirit is inanimate object.

I disagree totally. Read my above quote of Jesus in what is called The Great Commission.

Nehemiah6 · Dec 12, 2018

Demi777 said:

1. Yes, the term *Godhead* (Gk theiotés) does exist and will be found in the New Testament (Rom 1:20; Col 2:9). And it is an excellent indication of the TRIUNE Godhead.

King James Bible
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse...

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For the secrets of God from the foundation of the world are appearing to his creatures through intelligence, even his power and his eternal Godhead, that they will be without a defense...

Webster's Bible Translation
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse...

Young's Literal Translation
for the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world, by the things made being understood, are plainly seen, both His eternal power and Godhead -- to their being inexcusable...

Strong's Concordance
theiotés: divinity, divine nature
Original Word: θειότης, ητος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: theiotés
Phonetic Spelling: (thi-ot'-ace)
Definition: divinity, divine nature
Usage: divinity, divine nature.

2. What does NOT exist is *the Israelite Godhead*, since there is only one true God -- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit -- not an Israelite deity as opposed to a Canaanite deity or some such nonsense.

3. Since the Risen Lord Jesus Christ declared that He had received all power and authority in Heaven and in earth, He also declared in the same breath that there is a TRIUNE GODHEAD (Mt 28:19): Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

4. Today Jews call God "Ha Shem" (the Name) because they do not wish to say Yahweh (YHWH) fearing to violate the third commandment. So Ha Shem is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

Demi777 · Dec 12, 2018

Nehemiah6 said:

1. Yes, the term *Godhead* (Gk theiotés) does exist and will be found in the New Testament (Rom 1:20; Col 2:9). And it is an excellent indication of the TRIUNE Godhead.

King James Bible
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse...

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For the secrets of God from the foundation of the world are appearing to his creatures through intelligence, even his power and his eternal Godhead, that they will be without a defense...

Webster's Bible Translation
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse...

Young's Literal Translation
for the invisible things of Him from the creation of the world, by the things made being understood, are plainly seen, both His eternal power and Godhead -- to their being inexcusable...

Strong's Concordance
theiotés: divinity, divine nature
Original Word: θειότης, ητος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: theiotés
Phonetic Spelling: (thi-ot'-ace)
Definition: divinity, divine nature
Usage: divinity, divine nature.

2. What does NOT exist is *the Israelite Godhead*, since there is only one true God -- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit -- not an Israelite deity as opposed to a Canaanite deity or some such nonsense.

3. Since the Risen Lord Jesus Christ declared that He had received all power and authority in Heaven and in earth, He also declared in the same breath that there is a TRIUNE GODHEAD (Mt 28:19): Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

4. Today Jews call God "Ha Shem" (the Name) because they do not wish to say Yahweh (YHWH) fearing to violate the third commandment. So Ha Shem is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

The Godhead was added by erasmus as the Roman Catholic church would have killed him if he hadnt added it. In original scripture it is not found

Ahwatukee · Dec 12, 2018

YehovaYeshua said:

Regarding the Holy Spirit, please consider the following:

"Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and withhold some of the proceeds from the land? Did it not belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, was it not at your disposal? How could you conceive such a deed in your heart? You have not lied to men, but to God!”

In the scripture above, the Holy Spirit is used interchangeably with God, i.e. lying to the Holy Spirit is lying to God.

My thinking in this is, the persons who make up the God-Head are eternal having no beginning or ending and those persons who are not God were created and have a beginning. Therefore, if we say that that the Holy Spirit is not God, then we must put Him in the created group, which would mean that a created being would be indwelling all believers. Regarding the Holy Spirit, Jesus also said the following:

"Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. And so I tell you, every kind of sin and slander can be forgiven, but blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."

So, how can an individual who speaks against the Son of Man be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit not be forgiven?

Regarding the Spirit, we also have the following:

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"

In the scripture above, if we claim that the Holy Spirit is not God, then the command would be to baptize in the name of the two persons of the God-Head, the Father and the Son with the Holy Spirit as a created being. Remember, if one is not God, then they must be in the created group.

Just some food for thought

GraceAndTruth · Dec 12, 2018

The doctrine of the trinity is not a thing to be understood by the natural man,
It is understood spiritually by God's people.

So, do not cast pearls before swine.
This un-regenerated soul needs the gospel not a debate.
And if that is refused..........SHAKE THE DUST.

Ahwatukee · Dec 12, 2018

Demi777 said:

Hello Demi777,

If that were true, then we would be saying that God's word is corrupted and can't be trusted. For how could we know what other information is not of God, but of men? Does scripture not say "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness"? How could we know what is God's word and what was added by man? We couldn't trust it as being the word of God.

Endoscopy · Dec 12, 2018

Demi777 said:

Explain the Great Commission!!

Mathew 28:16 to 20 (great commission) AMPC (Amplified Classic)

16 Now the eleven disciples went to Galilee, to the mountain to which Jesus had directed and made appointment with them.
17 And when they saw Him, they fell down and worshiped Him; but some doubted.
18 Jesus approached and, breaking the silence, said to them, All authority (all power of rule) in heaven and on earth has been given to Me.
19 Go then and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20 Teaching them to observe everything that I have commanded you, and behold, I am with you all the days (perpetually, uniformly, and on every occasion), to the [very] close and consummation of the age. Amen (so let it be).

Nehemiah6 · Dec 12, 2018

Demi777 said:

Where did you get this false information?

I showed you several translations which had nothing to do with Erasmus, and they all have "Godhead".

Christians should not go around spreading lies just because they do not like the Catholic Church (and I am not Catholic).

eternally-gratefull · Dec 12, 2018

Zmouth said:

Nice try, but does not prove your case

I did basic math, And The Father AND the spirit = 2 people. (If it was JUST the father, He would have plainly said, and the father sent me, like he did many times in other places.)

How you can break that down to 1 is unfathonable

Deade · Dec 12, 2018

Zmouth said:

Luke 11:13 "If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

I don't see where this says the HS is inanimate. When we call any part of God a person, we miss the boat. The HS is an extension of God the Father and of Christ. They are linked in full measure, we are linked in part.

eternally-gratefull · Dec 12, 2018

Deade said:

Luke 11:13 "If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

I don't see where this says the HS is inanimate. When we call any part of God a person, we miss the boat. The HS is an extension of God the Father and of Christ. They are linked in full measure, we are linked in part.

Oops, guess the HS is not the Father!!

FlyingDove · Dec 12, 2018

YehovaYeshua said:

Yehova the Son is our/the creator: 2 Cor 5:21, Heb 4:15, 1 Jn 3:5 1 Pet 1:19, 1 Pet 2:22.

Yehova the Son that formed/created us. Holds the Title of Father in this universe.

The Father & Son have the same name. Common throughout the OT & even today

Yehova the Father sent his Son (Matt 10:40, Mk 9:27, Jn 3:16,17, 4:34, 5:30,36,37) to redeem a lost world.

The speaker throughout the OT is Yehova the Son

Example:
Zech 12:8-10 Identifies Himself as the Christ

8) The LORD (Yehova) defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; & he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; & the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them

9) it shall come to pass in that day, "I" will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem

10) I will pour upon the house of David, & upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace & of supplications & they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, & they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, & shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his first born

(Ok, In verse 8 the LORD, (Yehova the Son), is speaking. In verses 9 & 10 the pronoun, "I", refers to the same LORD, or Yehova "I" will seek to destroy & "I" will pout out upon the house of David

"""HERE"S THE KEY"""
Vs 10 they shall look upon me whom they pierced (It's Yehova the Son that's pierced) & they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, & shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his first born
(NOTE: Yehova is God the Son)

Clearly, Yehova is stating that it is HE the only begotten & the first born (RESURRECTED) Son of Yehova the Father, even the Christ, that shall be pierced & mourned, for whom they shall be in bitterness
(NOTE: Here Yehova = God the Son)

Before our worlds creation. Father-Son-Holy Spirit, plan then execut the plan of redemption for a lost world. The Yehova the Son is the agent by whom, Yehova the Father works within our realm.

After creation (verese noted above) Yehova the Son rested from creative works. After Yehova/Son finishes the work of redemption. He goes to Heaven (Beyond our realm) and sits down next at the right hand of Father/Yehova.

Yehova the Son is sent by Yehova the Father (Jn 3:16) .

Yehova the Son is PREEMINENT in ALL things within our realm:

Creation (2 Cor 5:21, Heb 4:15, 1 Jn 3:5, 1 Pet 1:19, 1 Pet 2:22.),

Redemption (Lk 1:68, 24:21, Gal 3:13, 1 Pet 1:18, Rev 5:9, 1 Co 6:20, Acts 20:28)

Resurrection (Rom 1:4, 6:5, Phil 3:10, 1 Pet 1:3 )

Mediation (1 Tim 2:5, Heb 8:6, Heb 9:15, Heb 12:24)

Judgment (Jn 5:22, Jn 5:27, Acts 10:42, 17:31)

Miri · Dec 12, 2018

The best explanation of the trinity I’ve come across is this,
Watch it to the end for the ta daa moment!

GracethroughfaithinChrist · Dec 12, 2018

2 Corinthians 3:17
Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

Colossians 2:9
For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Nehemiah6 · Dec 12, 2018

Demi777 said:

When you have no clue about what you are discussing, it is better to BACK DOWN than DOUBLE DOWN.

So to prove that you are totally mistaken, I will quote from BOTH the Critical Text and the Received Text (which are identical) and show you that Erasmus did NOT tamper with Scripture, and the Protestant King James and Geneva Bibles translated the Greek θειότης (theiotés) as Godhead. The Roman Catholic Church is not even in the picture, and the Roman Catholic Douay-Rheims Bible does not even have Godhead. It has the word *divinity*.

CRITICAL TEXT
Westcott and Hort / [NA27 variants]
τὰ γὰρ ἀόρατα αὐτοῦ ἀπὸ κτίσεως κόσμου τοῖς ποιήμασιν νοούμενα καθορᾶται, ἥ τε ἀΐδιος αὐτοῦ δύναμις καὶ θειότης, εἰς τὸ εἶναι αὐτοὺς ἀναπολογήτους...

RECEIVED TEXT
τὰ γὰρ ἀόρατα αὐτοῦ ἀπὸ κτίσεως κόσμου τοῖς ποιήμασι νοούμενα καθορᾶται, ἥ τε ἀΐδιος αὐτοῦ δύναμις καὶ θειότης, εἰς τὸ εἶναι αὐτοὺς ἀναπολογήτους·

1599 GENEVA BIBLE (PROTESTANT)
For the invisible things of him, that is, his eternal power and Godhead, are seen by the creation of the world, being considered in his works, to the intent that they should be without excuse:

King James Bible (PROTESTANT)
For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

Douay-Rheims Bible (CATHOLIC)
For the invisible things of him, from the creation of the world, are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made; his eternal power also, and divinity: so that they are inexcusable.

So Demi777, you might want to issue a public apology to Erasmus and the Catholic Church for posting falsehoods about the Godhead. That would be the Christian thing to do.

There are only 2 Persons in the Israelite Godhead, not 3 Persons

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