2 verses that refute all forms of Premillennialism
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Well i can discount Job.. That verse was Job speaking it was not God.. God came down to Job and his friends and corrected them on more then a few things..
Revelation 20 Makes it clear that there will be two distinct and seperate reasurections 1000 years apart..
Revelation 20: KJV
4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. {5} But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. {6} Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."
How much more clearer can the Holy Bible be.. The Saints who where beheaded for their witness of Jesus shall Live and reign with Christ during the 1000 years..
Revelation 20 Makes it clear that there will be two distinct and seperate reasurections 1000 years apart..
Revelation 20: KJV
4 "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. {5} But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. {6} Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years."
How much more clearer can the Holy Bible be.. The Saints who where beheaded for their witness of Jesus shall Live and reign with Christ during the 1000 years..
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It has gas holes? Wow!
What is this new doctrine you are speaking of, we want to hear more on this!
What is this new doctrine you are speaking of, we want to hear more on this!
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When I caught my mistake, it was after the five minutes had elapsed, so I could not correct it.
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Since revelation 20 isnt explicit enough, what about the prophecies about the Messiah ruling from the throne of David?
Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Why cant this be new heaven and earth? Well I think the clue is in the phrase "shall execute judgment and justice in the earth". If everyone is a saved individual in glorified bodies, is this necessary?
Jer 23:5 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
Jer 23:6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, THE LORD OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.
Why cant this be new heaven and earth? Well I think the clue is in the phrase "shall execute judgment and justice in the earth". If everyone is a saved individual in glorified bodies, is this necessary?
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Both of his passages appear to me as a big fat nothing burger as it relates to his erroneous view that there will be no 1000 yr reign by Christ on Earth. He thinks he's got these silver bullet verses, but it's only something he's built in his mind.
Revelation 11:15-19, is like Genesis in that both have an outline Chapter, followed by specifics. We wouldn't have chapters 12 to 22 if everything ended in chapter 11.
The book of Revelation is not a chronological book imo.
Simple way to see this is read Revelation 6 where the earth is taking some massive damage. Then in the next chapter where the 144 000 are sealed it says dont hurt the earth or anything in it until these 144 000 are sealed.
Another one is to compare the trumpets and vials, and see how both lead to the second coming.
But I assume you are of the "party line" so to speak and believe its chronological, in which case to you the fact that there is a next chapter is convincing.
To me its not. If you dont agree thats fine, im not dogmatic on it.
I would like to know what the rewarding of the prophets in the verse means to you since you believe the story continues after that trumpet. How are they rewarded?
Simple way to see this is read Revelation 6 where the earth is taking some massive damage. Then in the next chapter where the 144 000 are sealed it says dont hurt the earth or anything in it until these 144 000 are sealed.
Another one is to compare the trumpets and vials, and see how both lead to the second coming.
But I assume you are of the "party line" so to speak and believe its chronological, in which case to you the fact that there is a next chapter is convincing.
To me its not. If you dont agree thats fine, im not dogmatic on it.
I would like to know what the rewarding of the prophets in the verse means to you since you believe the story continues after that trumpet. How are they rewarded?
Using your logic we throw out all the epistles and many other books in the Old and New Testament. The argument refutes itself.
Based on your assumption that the "first resurrection" is physical. Job 14: 12 and Rev 11: 18 shows that not possible. It is a spiritual resurrection.
Rev 11: 18 tells us the dead are judged at the seventh trumpet. Where is the only place we find a judgment in Revelation? Rev 20: 11-15 at the Great White Throne which is after the 1,000 years. Therefore the seventh trumpet is after the 1,000 years.
Do you throw out Revelation 11: 18 too?
Based on your assumption that the "first resurrection" is physical. Job 14: 12 and Rev 11: 18 shows that not possible. It is a spiritual resurrection.
Rev 11: 18 tells us the dead are judged at the seventh trumpet. Where is the only place we find a judgment in Revelation? Rev 20: 11-15 at the Great White Throne which is after the 1,000 years. Therefore the seventh trumpet is after the 1,000 years.
Do you throw out Revelation 11: 18 too?
We can argue about whether this is a millennium with Jesus in Jerusalem or whether this is the new heavens and earth. You are going to say it's the millennium, I'm going to say it is not. Our presuppositions are driving us in this particular passage because the passage itself is sufficiently vague as to the timing.
This is why I used the 2 verses I did in this thread. They are not vague or ambiguous. They are crystal clear. Nobody has offered an argument against them yet except these:
For Job 14: 12, "It's Job speaking so we can't trust the verse!" or "It's a spiritual heavens!" (with no justification from the context of the passage for that).
And For Rev 11: 18, "It's only the righteous!" (But the verse says it's the dead which would include everybody)
So nobody has offered anything yet that is worthy of consideration. The verses are clear in what they mean but people just go on ignoring them anyways. Hopefully the thread will bless someone who has an open heart and mind.
This is why I used the 2 verses I did in this thread. They are not vague or ambiguous. They are crystal clear. Nobody has offered an argument against them yet except these:
For Job 14: 12, "It's Job speaking so we can't trust the verse!"
or "It's a spiritual heavens!" (with no justification from the context of the passage for that).And For Rev 11: 18, "It's only the righteous!"
(But the verse says it's the dead which would include everybody)So nobody has offered anything yet that is worthy of consideration. The verses are clear in what they mean but people just go on ignoring them anyways. Hopefully the thread will bless someone who has an open heart and mind.
No. I actually know how to read. You decided a long time ago that you don't care what Scripture says about the nature of the 1,000 years in Revelation. You are going to have your 1,000 year reign with Christ on earth no matter what. You are dispensationalist till you die.
It's called recapitulation. The prophetic books do it all the time.
It's called recapitulation. The prophetic books do it all the time.
Accept for you, correct?
Frankly your above is sad and smug.
I've given you some good advice on the Job 14:12 text, but you cannot think outside your box and just reject it. Like stated, there are others who also hold the same view I gave, and contextually it is accurate. You just don't like it when a text you choose doesn't happen to support you after all, or has evidence contextually that you could be incorrect.
Not you, you simply cannot ever be incorrect. That and you're the only one offering anything worthy of consideration.
Frankly your above is sad and smug.
I've given you some good advice on the Job 14:12 text, but you cannot think outside your box and just reject it. Like stated, there are others who also hold the same view I gave, and contextually it is accurate. You just don't like it when a text you choose doesn't happen to support you after all, or has evidence contextually that you could be incorrect.
Not you, you simply cannot ever be incorrect. That and you're the only one offering anything worthy of consideration.