Before The Foudation Of The World 2

I get your point and think that God forgets some things on purpose (mostly out of mercy), but what about:

Psalms 139:16 Your eyes saw my unformed substance;in your book were written, every one of them,the days that were formed for me,when as yet there were none of them.

God does know much more than what we think.

How do you think God decides for some to be tares and some to be wheat? what is the criteria?

This is interesting seed time harvest, can you recommend any resources to know more about this: e books, videos, web pages, etc.

Thanks ahead of time for any input.

I understand your point, but remember that subjective refers that a particular person experienced and the others did not. When some disciples saw the transfiguration of Jesus, it was subjective to the other disciples because they did not experience it. It does not mean that it was not real, but just that is a personal experience not replicable by someone who was not there.

When other Apostles saw Jesus it was subjective from the point of view of Thomas, when he saw Jesus, then it was not subjective any more because he experienced it first time.

And this takes us to another point: the genuiness of the experience (as in coming truly from God).

There is a story saying that a being appeared to Ireneaus and asked him to bow down and worship him. Ireneaus noticed the being had a crown. Ireneaus rebuked the being and said to the being to depart from him, because he knew that Jesus is not crowned until after the end.

Not all experiences of a spiritual nature are come from heaven, the devil disguises himself as angel of light. I do understand the concern on this matters by cessationinst.

Now I do believe there is a gift of discernment of spirits. I think all believers should pray to get it or sharpen it. It is key in these matters.

To me your testimony seems legit. Now what the Bible tells us is to see the fruit of the tree.

By the fruit we can tell who is who.

You will probably identify with the following story because of your background.

"A jewish rabbi said to a christian leader: there is a slight difference on how we go about knowing who is who based on our different traditions:

Christians tend to listen to what the person says, and if the beliefs said to be professed fall within orthodoxy, then the person is considered a true believer.

In judaism is different, when someone says that is a believer, we follow them for 3 days, and we get a very good idea of who the person really is."

May be funny, but packs a punch in my view, true chrisitanity bears fruit and the fruit should not go against the Bible nor the character and nature of God.

With due respect, the mission of Jesus was twofold: 1 die for our sins. 2 baptize with the Holy Spirit.

The way we got it is: Adam was doing fine, and had the glory of God manifest in his life (Holy Spirit). Because the transgression, the Holy Spirit left Adam and Eve. Human toiling started there. Fellowship with God was broken.

Jesus comes to the rescue, to get the Holy Spirit back on people, so the fellowship with God is reestablished. We go to be back the way Adam was before the fall.

We were never created to work independently of God (like Eve and Adam eventually wanted to do at the fall), we are supposed to always be connected, so that our will does not get in the way of God's plans.

When there was only the will of God reigning, all was perfect. it was when a second will rose (devil's) that chaos wreaked.

We are here to learn that lesson, that we cannot be in charge of all like God, because we do not have self-existence (and will never will have), and we have no creative power to take care of biz as God does.

This is a word game. Within the community of those who know by faith, it is faith and never something subjective . That is a temporal attitude, understanding and regard……..not of the Holy Spirit, not of the teaching.

JaumeJ, to me you seem legit, and I do know that the Holy Spirit bears witness that you are an adopted children of God. I do agree with persons like John Frame that know that "experience is the highest form of perception".

A man of God near a river, saw a heavenly being there who communicated him some important information. Bystanders only heard a loud noise, and felt very scared and fled the place.

Who had the right perception of the event? the holy man of course, and what allowed him to perceive God's spiritual reality? the Holy Spirit of course.

What I am getting at, is that the Holy Spirit's fruit is kind, mellow, good willed, understanding, patient, etc.

Cessationists usually have a difficult time accepting the higher gifts of the Holy Spirit, and many times, because have been indoctrinated in a sincerely mistaken manner.

Augustine was the first that suggested the possibility of miracles and higher gifts cessation, and he had to take it back because of the amount of miracles happening in the place where he gathered for worship.

Unfortunately Calvin did not get that "take it back part from Augustine", and he kept pushing cessationism, and many groups are with that concept as a key understanding of their faith.

They also are afraid of the part where believers saying that had worked in the spiritual realm supposedly for the Kingdom are rebuked by Jesus and told "depart from me workers of lawlessness".

So I understand some of the cessationist groups concerns. They may be the ones always saying experience is subjective, not to be trusted, and goes back to a very different ways to learn about God:

1 Are we to learn by ideas? abstract theological constructions that are based on propositional truths (Plato) or

2 are we to learn about God by experience? receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and moving in that spiritual realm the way Adam did before the fall? (experience was championed by Aristotle).

To tell you the truth to me both ways are needed, but we need to check experience based on a good grasp of truth from Scripture.
(remember Ireneaus case of recognizing a false heavenly being).

So I try not to polemicize with the Scholasticly bent brothers, because they also have good things to offer to the work of the Kingdom of God.

A cessationist pastor was preaching ,he was heavy into personal holiness. During preaching it seems that somehow he got a message from God, that a group was doing foul play in the congregation.

He was shocked, but started an investigation. Eventually lo and behold, foul play it was by a certain infiltrated group.

People do not understand that in God's reality all is perfect. We are the ones living in a fallen dysfunctional creation. He is free to come as go as He pleases, and for the love God has for His adopted children, he can do miracles to protect, bless, illuminate, heal, etc. at will and against rules of this realm, because this is a non-perfect one not IAW God's usual and customary ways.

I would imagine that within the cessationist groups, a cohort of infiltrated tares are trying to push an ungodly agenda (may even spill to continuists), and they like to operate in cessationist states, because with the absence of higher gifts, they are less likely to be discovered and unmasked.

I can’t think of any resources that I can point you to right now bro but If I do,I won’t forget you.
When I said some believe that the old man can be resurrected I was talking about some of the content from post I have seen on here.

at will and against rules of this realm, because this is a non-perfect one not IAW God's usual and customary ways.

I would imagine that within the cessationist groups, a cohort of infiltrated tares are trying to push an ungodly agenda (may even spill to continuists), and they like to operate in cessationist states, because with the absence of higher gifts, they are less likely to be discovered and unmasked.[/QUOTE]

(purposely only a sample of your post to save space just in case...)

Your post here reminds me of my time at the University where I first received the Holy Spirit, not by people talling me about it, not by the preaching of the Gospel of Jesus Christ but in response by our Father to earnest prayer and inquiry...long story.

Previous to having received the Hoy Spirit and being convinced of Yeshua, Jesus Christ, I would frequent the Illini Union on campus and many of us would discuss philosophers and their messages. My best friend was a professor of SAstrophysics and we would discus the galaxy and the universe, along with our own ideas. It surprised me how he would actually hear me and take me seriously. After I introduced him to his future wife.....we drifted but we yet are in communication.........that was just about fifty years ago.

After being convinced of much actually all by God accompanied by miracles, I rejected all philosphers for they talked o relative truths and nothing having any connection to Truth....God settled this for me.

I know some about Monica and her son Agustin, and although I do not recognize any sainted by a Pope, I do recognized that many of the named saints are indeed saints, and Agustin is one of them.....All who know Jesus Christ are saints, and this is why I do not like the idea of men designating who is a saint because it lessons the knowledge of sainthood.

None of the above is terribly important but I do believe one thins is, Yeshua cricified for our sins, and His Gosple, as much as possible learned from Him.

Thank you for your kind words,and always remember, beign patient and loving does not mean being warm and fuzzy, sometimes the true love has to be safe. You know, like Jesus when He spoke to many. God bless you always.