The Bible teaches Annihilationism for the wicked
- Thread starter delirious
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
If you had read the explanation in my paper about Revelation 14: 10-11 then you would understand. The Scripture does not teach eternal conscious torment. It teaches eternal destruction.
The same language used in Rev 14: 10-11 is used in Isaiah 34: 9-10 about the destruction of Edom. It says "the fire will not be quenched night or day." Edom was destroyed by the Babylonians in the 6th century B.C.
Is Edom still burning 2,600 years later? No, it was destroyed forever. Just like when Rev 14: 10-11 say "no rest day or night" it means destroyed forever. They will cease to exist. Just like Edom did. Edom is not still burning.
Once again, I would encourage you to look at the language of Rev 14: 10-11 and Isaiah 34: 9-10. You can see the comparison I did in my paper and you will see that it means being destroyed forever not eternal conscious torment.
I'm not challenging the Word of God. I know what it says. I am challenging your faulty understanding of it because you have not done a careful comparison and study of the Scriptures to find out what those words and phrases actually mean.
Immortality is God's alone. To say we are immortally burning is rubbish. "You will not surely die" was the first lie. Death is the result of sin and to say people will be alive for ever means no one ever dies. You are saying we all have immortality.
God is just and to burn someone for 50000000000 years for 50 years of sinning would not be just. I don't know how long people will burn for but i know God is just and that the final result of Sin is death, ---Death= the end of the life of a person or organism, deprived of life : no longer alive.
Rom_5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom_6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
We have to options death or life. We we don't have the option of good eternal life or bad eternal life it is death or life.
Jas_1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Death is the final part for those that are not saved by grace.
God is just and to burn someone for 50000000000 years for 50 years of sinning would not be just. I don't know how long people will burn for but i know God is just and that the final result of Sin is death, ---Death= the end of the life of a person or organism, deprived of life : no longer alive.
Rom_5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Rom_6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
We have to options death or life. We we don't have the option of good eternal life or bad eternal life it is death or life.
Jas_1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Death is the final part for those that are not saved by grace.
-
2
-
1
- Show all
Offer them the promise of the gospel in respect to the right kind of fear.
God does not not scare hell out of people which is a living tribulation but rather freely gives them faith which previously they had none of. (no faith)
Its not the smart choice on our behalf but having the faith of Christ on His behalf working in us to both will and do His good pleasure by which we can say yes .Again previously having no faith.
If he would mark even the least of all inequities who could stand before his throne of mercy and receive grace? He is not merciless .
Those who are not freely given a new spirit will not rise to new spirit life
Psalm 130 King James Version (KJV)Out of the depths have I cried unto thee, O Lord. Lord, hear my voice: let thine ears be attentive to the voice of my supplications.If thou, Lord, shouldest "mark iniquities", O Lord, who shall stand?But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared.I wait for the Lord, my soul doth wait, and in his word do I hope.My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning: I say, more than they that watch for the morning.Let Israel hope in the Lord: for with the Lord there is mercy, and with him is plenteous redemption.And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.
No forgiveness no fear. Without the Lord there is no mercy. The mercy that brings grace by giving a new born again spirit triumphs over judgment.... for some that will not rise to new spirit life. .
So then its not that some suffer forever but rather some will never rise to new spirit life as new creatures .Again God is not merciless where he has mercy on one and the other suffer forever and ever because he had no mercy . Different kinds of mercy
God does not not scare hell out of people which is a living tribulation but rather freely gives them faith which previously they had none of. (no faith)
Its not the smart choice on our behalf but having the faith of Christ on His behalf working in us to both will and do His good pleasure by which we can say yes .Again previously having no faith.
If he would mark even the least of all inequities who could stand before his throne of mercy and receive grace? He is not merciless .
Those who are not freely given a new spirit will not rise to new spirit life
Psalm 130 King James Version (KJV)Out of the depths have I cried unto thee, O Lord. Lord, hear my voice: let thine ears be attentive to the voice of my supplications.If thou, Lord, shouldest "mark iniquities", O Lord, who shall stand?But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared.I wait for the Lord, my soul doth wait, and in his word do I hope.My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning: I say, more than they that watch for the morning.Let Israel hope in the Lord: for with the Lord there is mercy, and with him is plenteous redemption.And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.
No forgiveness no fear. Without the Lord there is no mercy. The mercy that brings grace by giving a new born again spirit triumphs over judgment.... for some that will not rise to new spirit life. .
So then its not that some suffer forever but rather some will never rise to new spirit life as new creatures .Again God is not merciless where he has mercy on one and the other suffer forever and ever because he had no mercy . Different kinds of mercy
Corrupted bodies and corrupted spirits are part of the temporal shown as the wrath of God which must as a body of death die... as soon a person passes. That is if not given a new spirit that could never die. The temporal corrupted spirit returns to the father who gave it temporally and the flesh and blood returns to the rudiments of this world .The dead know nothing .No pain. no joy....no breath. no nothing.
No one has received their new body and spirit.
Ecclesiastes 12:7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
No one has received their new body and spirit.
Ecclesiastes 12:7Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
On the contrary, the word that is translated as "destruction" or "perish" are the words olethros, apolleia and apollumi. Here is an example of the use of the word apoleia below:
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. "
"Apoleia," translated as destruction or perdition, is the noun which is derived from the verb "apollumi."
Below is an excerpt from the definition of the word:
"apṓleia ("perdition") does not imply "annihilation" (see the meaning of the root-verb, 622 /apóllymi, "cut off") but instead "loss of well-being" rather than being
Therefore, apoleia translated as destruction/perdition in the scripture above, cannot be used to infer annihilation or extinction. Please make sure that you read the above definition of the word because it tells you plainly that the word does not imply annihilation. What the word apoleia does mean is the complete loss of well being, ruination, to be completely cut off. This fact is revealed in the last part of the definition of the word as follows:
"but instead means "loss of well-being" rather than being."
That scripture is contained within the context of Isaiah 34:9-10 and should not be applied to Revelation 14:10-11. The context of each scripture should always be addressed first and is what will determine the meaning of the word. Regarding Revelation 14:9-11, the context clearly states the following for those who worship the beast, his image and receive his mark:
"If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever. Day and night there will be no rest for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name.”
Pay attention now and drop the false information that you have been taught or read! In order for the smoke of their torment to rise forever and ever, they would have to be existing, otherwise, if a person is just burnt up, there can be no smoke of their torment to rise up forever and ever, because they would no longer exist. The same goes for the words "they will have no rest day or night," because it would require a person to be existing in order to experience not having any rest. Use some spiritual logic!
As stated earlier, Isaiah 34:9-10 has its context, which is not the same as the context of Revelation 14:10-11. Isaiah 34:9-10 is talking about the future state of Edom during the time of God's wrath. I say "future" because Edom is still standing and therefore what is prophesied must yet be fulfilled. In opposition, Revelation 14:9-11 is speaking about their eternal state of complete loss of well being, ruination, being separated from God in everlasting punishment in the lake of fire.
Everyone, whether righteous or wicked, will receive a resurrected body, as scripture states that there will be a resurrection of both. The wicked will receive their resurrected body when they stand before God at the great white throne judgment. The following is an excerpt from the definition of the word "geenna"
Gehenna ("hell"), the place of post-resurrection torment (judgment), refers strictly to the everlasting abode of the unredeemed where they experience divine judgment in their individual resurrection-bodies. Each of the unredeemed receives one at the Great White Throne Judgment (Rev 20:11-15), i.e. a body that "matches" their capacity for torment relating to their (unique) judgment.
I can't believe that you people are so careless with the word of God and yet are believing and teaching this junk! Like I said, if you never repent of this, you will be held accountable for these false teachings.
Your advice is too late, as I have been doing just that for about 45 years, which is where I got the information that I am relaying to you. You're wrong in your belief and teaching! When I first came to Christ, I was led to the study of end-time events and have been studying it ever since. So, I have examined all scriptures relating to end-time events forwards, backwards, upside down and inside out. I've heard all of the false apologetics, which is all you are repeating. You do the same as all the rest who have been deceived, you ignore the truth and use the apologetics which you have heard or made up and thereby distort the truth.
The Lord rebuke you and all those who hold to these false teachings!
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. "
"Apoleia," translated as destruction or perdition, is the noun which is derived from the verb "apollumi."
Below is an excerpt from the definition of the word:
"apṓleia ("perdition") does not imply "annihilation" (see the meaning of the root-verb, 622 /apóllymi, "cut off") but instead "loss of well-being" rather than being
Therefore, apoleia translated as destruction/perdition in the scripture above, cannot be used to infer annihilation or extinction. Please make sure that you read the above definition of the word because it tells you plainly that the word does not imply annihilation. What the word apoleia does mean is the complete loss of well being, ruination, to be completely cut off. This fact is revealed in the last part of the definition of the word as follows:
"but instead means "loss of well-being" rather than being."
That scripture is contained within the context of Isaiah 34:9-10 and should not be applied to Revelation 14:10-11. The context of each scripture should always be addressed first and is what will determine the meaning of the word. Regarding Revelation 14:9-11, the context clearly states the following for those who worship the beast, his image and receive his mark:
"If anyone worships the beast and his image, and receives his mark on his forehead or on his hand, he too will drink the wine of God’s anger, poured undiluted into the cup of His wrath. And he will be tormented in fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever. Day and night there will be no rest for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name.”
Pay attention now and drop the false information that you have been taught or read! In order for the smoke of their torment to rise forever and ever, they would have to be existing, otherwise, if a person is just burnt up, there can be no smoke of their torment to rise up forever and ever, because they would no longer exist. The same goes for the words "they will have no rest day or night," because it would require a person to be existing in order to experience not having any rest. Use some spiritual logic!
As stated earlier, Isaiah 34:9-10 has its context, which is not the same as the context of Revelation 14:10-11. Isaiah 34:9-10 is talking about the future state of Edom during the time of God's wrath. I say "future" because Edom is still standing and therefore what is prophesied must yet be fulfilled. In opposition, Revelation 14:9-11 is speaking about their eternal state of complete loss of well being, ruination, being separated from God in everlasting punishment in the lake of fire.
Everyone, whether righteous or wicked, will receive a resurrected body, as scripture states that there will be a resurrection of both. The wicked will receive their resurrected body when they stand before God at the great white throne judgment. The following is an excerpt from the definition of the word "geenna"
Gehenna ("hell"), the place of post-resurrection torment (judgment), refers strictly to the everlasting abode of the unredeemed where they experience divine judgment in their individual resurrection-bodies. Each of the unredeemed receives one at the Great White Throne Judgment (Rev 20:11-15), i.e. a body that "matches" their capacity for torment relating to their (unique) judgment.
I can't believe that you people are so careless with the word of God and yet are believing and teaching this junk! Like I said, if you never repent of this, you will be held accountable for these false teachings.
Your advice is too late, as I have been doing just that for about 45 years, which is where I got the information that I am relaying to you. You're wrong in your belief and teaching! When I first came to Christ, I was led to the study of end-time events and have been studying it ever since. So, I have examined all scriptures relating to end-time events forwards, backwards, upside down and inside out. I've heard all of the false apologetics, which is all you are repeating. You do the same as all the rest who have been deceived, you ignore the truth and use the apologetics which you have heard or made up and thereby distort the truth.
The Lord rebuke you and all those who hold to these false teachings!
-
2
- Show all
"And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
In verse above the word "eternal" is used for both the righteous and the wicked and therefore must retain the same meaning for both. Whatever interpretation you apply to the wicked must be the same for the righteous. In other words, you can't have eternal life meaning on-going existence in the kingdom of God and then have the same word eternal punishment for the wicked mean annihilation/non-existence. As I said, the word must retain the same meaning for both, i.e. everlasting (never ending) life in the presence of God in His kingdom and everlasting punishment in separation from God in the lake of fire. From everything that I have garnered from comparing and cross-referencing scripture, life and death are both states of eternal existence which is determined by one's standing with God. Life being a state of everlasting existence in the joy of the Lord and death being a state of everlasting existence in separation from the presence of the Lord in punishment in the lake of fire.
I don't have to read the post, because your attempt to distort God's word regarding everlasting punishment is all I need to hear, as I have gone over anything and everything that you could present. You read the words, everlasting, eternal, forever and ever and you ignore their and instead make them out to mean the opposite.
Sir, once more you show that you have no idea what you are talking about! The Bema Seat of Christ is for the righteous not the wicked! The Bema Seat is where those who are resurrected and caught up will stand before the Lord and will be judgment, albeit not for sin, but to receive reward or loss of reward. In opposition, all of the unrighteous dead throughout all of history, will be resurrected after the millennial kingdom and will stand before God at the great white throne judgment. The church is not judged at this judgment, as they will have already been judged at the Bema Seat.
I will quote the Lord in that, "you are in error because you do not know the Scriptures."
You have been deceived my friend. Therefore, repent of this and believe the truth, because what you are believing and teaching is not the truth of God's word.
In verse above the word "eternal" is used for both the righteous and the wicked and therefore must retain the same meaning for both. Whatever interpretation you apply to the wicked must be the same for the righteous. In other words, you can't have eternal life meaning on-going existence in the kingdom of God and then have the same word eternal punishment for the wicked mean annihilation/non-existence. As I said, the word must retain the same meaning for both, i.e. everlasting (never ending) life in the presence of God in His kingdom and everlasting punishment in separation from God in the lake of fire. From everything that I have garnered from comparing and cross-referencing scripture, life and death are both states of eternal existence which is determined by one's standing with God. Life being a state of everlasting existence in the joy of the Lord and death being a state of everlasting existence in separation from the presence of the Lord in punishment in the lake of fire.
I don't have to read the post, because your attempt to distort God's word regarding everlasting punishment is all I need to hear, as I have gone over anything and everything that you could present. You read the words, everlasting, eternal, forever and ever and you ignore their and instead make them out to mean the opposite.
Sir, once more you show that you have no idea what you are talking about! The Bema Seat of Christ is for the righteous not the wicked! The Bema Seat is where those who are resurrected and caught up will stand before the Lord and will be judgment, albeit not for sin, but to receive reward or loss of reward. In opposition, all of the unrighteous dead throughout all of history, will be resurrected after the millennial kingdom and will stand before God at the great white throne judgment. The church is not judged at this judgment, as they will have already been judged at the Bema Seat.
I will quote the Lord in that, "you are in error because you do not know the Scriptures."
You have been deceived my friend. Therefore, repent of this and believe the truth, because what you are believing and teaching is not the truth of God's word.
-
1
- Show all
622 apóllymi (from 575 /apó, "away from," which intensifies ollymi, "to destroy") – properly, fully destroy, cutting off entirely (note the force of the prefix, 575 /apó).
622 /apóllymi ("violently/completely perish") implies permanent (absolute) destruction, i.e. to cancel out (remove); "to die, with the implication of ruin and destruction" (L & N, 1, 23.106); cause to be lost (utterly perish) by experiencing a miserable end.
See I can copy a bunch of stuff just like you from Strong's concordance and do the same thing. Doesn't make either one of us right.
The question is what does the word really mean. You determine that from its context and usage as well as its definition. What does the word G622 "apollumi" really mean? Let's look at it in Matthew 10: 28:
Matthew 10: 28, "And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. "
The bolded word is G622 apollumi. It is clear from its usage and context it means a soul that is killed and ceases to live. Just like the body in the same verse was killed and ceases to live.
This argument is complete garbage and you should know better. There was no argument presented here except a desperate attempt to rationalize your unscriptural view of eternal conscious torment.
Isaiah 34 is directly relevant to Revelation 14 because the same phrases are used in both. Edom is not still burning and in conscious eternal torment. It was destroyed by the Babylonians 2,600 years ago. That's what God does in Rev 14 to unbelievers. I'm sorry that you can't seem to make the connection there but it is extremely relevant.
It makes me very sad that you have been studying it for 45 years and still believe in eternal conscious torment, a millennium, two resurrections, two second comings of Christ, two Gog and Magog wars, two judgments and a future 70th week with a seven year treaty between antichrist and Israel; none of which the Bible teaches us.
This is what happens when someone gets indoctrinated with dispensationalism and loses the ability to think for themselves. You need to scrap everything and re-read the Scriptures with a fresh mindset. I mean that sincerely. Otherwise, you will never have the truth on this subject.
-
1
- Show all
Yes destroy the temporal corrupted spirit and body . Not a corrupted body but not a corrupted spirit. therefore having no spirit that will rise on the last day. A person must be born again
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Like you suggested we determine that from its context and usage as well as its definition. The same with the word hell, contexts informs us it is a living suffering .Dead people cannot suffer . They have no spirit or body .No way to cry out
Jonah 2 King James Version (KJV) Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his God out of the fish's belly, And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the "belly of hell" cried I, and thou heardest my voice.
Belly of hell like heart of the earth speaks of three days of living suffering. Not three days dead with no spirit life.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
Like you suggested we determine that from its context and usage as well as its definition. The same with the word hell, contexts informs us it is a living suffering .Dead people cannot suffer . They have no spirit or body .No way to cry out
Jonah 2 King James Version (KJV) Then Jonah prayed unto the Lord his God out of the fish's belly, And said, I cried by reason of mine affliction unto the Lord, and he heard me; out of the "belly of hell" cried I, and thou heardest my voice.
Belly of hell like heart of the earth speaks of three days of living suffering. Not three days dead with no spirit life.
Not existing is losing out on eternal life. I would say that is losing a lot. If you don't think so that is up to you. If someone came up to you and said I am going to blot out your existence forever I am pretty sure you would be terrified and find it to be a huge loss.
Hellfire is eternal. It is symbolic of God's irreversible judgment and annihilation of the wicked. Not a literal fire that burns forever. When you look at the examples I gave in my paper it is clear that the "hellfire" consumes and destroys the enemies of God forever. You are making an assumption that it must mean "eternal conscious torment". If you study the passages you would find out it does not mean that at all.
Ahwatukee, it mightn't be a bad idea to read and consider what a person has written before commenting. It might be the sort of thing you'd do anyway as, judging by your signature, you seek to make love your aim. Besides, how can you otherwise know what you are talking about yourself? 'delirious' is a misnomer. There's nothing delirious about him at all. He presents good reasons for believing as he does. He may nevertheless be mistaken but you need to deal with what he writes - and it is well thought through and kind of compelling - if you're going to convince us.
You're seizing on one point without reading how he arrives at it, so what you say is all tip and no iceberg.
As for his having to repent, Ahwatukee, this is simply a view he holds based on his analysing the text, drawing conclusions and teasing out the implications. I'm not sure that that is a hangable offence.
You're seizing on one point without reading how he arrives at it, so what you say is all tip and no iceberg.
As for his having to repent, Ahwatukee, this is simply a view he holds based on his analysing the text, drawing conclusions and teasing out the implications. I'm not sure that that is a hangable offence.
-
1
- Show all
Hello Kohelet,
The issue is that, these are false teachings which scripture does not support or condone. We are living in the last days and this is the reason why we are seeing this attack on the word of God on just about every Biblical topic.
Regarding his points, I've already gone over these same issues many times throughout my life with other false teachers and therefore know that they are wrong and why they are wrong, as well as the scriptures to prove they are wrong.
He as well as others will have to see the truth regarding these things in order to finally understand, because they are not going to listen to me and the scriptures to support them.
I have provided scriptures regarding the fate of the wicked such as "And he will be tormented in fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb" as a proof that one would have to be existing and conscious in order to experience being tormented in their presence. Yet, instead of understanding this, he reaches for the existing false apologetics. The same ones I have heard over and over again.
Contending for the truth of God's word with these people has become frustrating at beast in that, you cannot use not use scripture to convince them of these truths. If I was to say, "I didn't get any sleep at all last night, because I was tossing and turning, the hearer would understand that it was because of my tossing and turning that I didn't get any sleep. They would understand that I would have to still be alive in order to toss and turn. Applying the same understanding, we have scripture stating that the wicked will have no rest day or night and the smoke of their torment will rise up forever and ever and instead of taking this at face value, they interpret it as annihilation and offer apologetics (lame excuses) to circumvent the truth. They ignore the supporting words in the context such as "forever and ever, eternal punishment, tormented, everlasting, etc." Now to the person who is truly seeking the truth, they would take those words in their plain literal sense, like reading a book. But because these people have adopted the false teachings of men, they do all that can to fight against the truth by distorting their meanings by applying apologetic after apologetic. They are unable to see the truth!
As I previously posted, I have gone over all of the arguments that they provide, so I already know the truth and the scriptures to support them.
The bottom line is that, God's word does not teach annihilation or extinction, which is stated right in the definition of the Greek words used to represent the translated words destroyed or perish.
Everyone who comes into the world exists forever, whether righteous or wicked. It is an individual's state at the time of death (reconciled or unreconciled) that determines the individuals eternal condition. Both life and death are states of never-ending existence either in the presence and joy of the Lord, or completely separated from the Lord's presence in torment in the lake of fire. This is what the combined scriptures teach and he and others are just going to have to find out directly from the Lord Himself.
The issue is that, these are false teachings which scripture does not support or condone. We are living in the last days and this is the reason why we are seeing this attack on the word of God on just about every Biblical topic.
Regarding his points, I've already gone over these same issues many times throughout my life with other false teachers and therefore know that they are wrong and why they are wrong, as well as the scriptures to prove they are wrong.
He as well as others will have to see the truth regarding these things in order to finally understand, because they are not going to listen to me and the scriptures to support them.
I have provided scriptures regarding the fate of the wicked such as "And he will be tormented in fire and sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb" as a proof that one would have to be existing and conscious in order to experience being tormented in their presence. Yet, instead of understanding this, he reaches for the existing false apologetics. The same ones I have heard over and over again.
Contending for the truth of God's word with these people has become frustrating at beast in that, you cannot use not use scripture to convince them of these truths. If I was to say, "I didn't get any sleep at all last night, because I was tossing and turning, the hearer would understand that it was because of my tossing and turning that I didn't get any sleep. They would understand that I would have to still be alive in order to toss and turn. Applying the same understanding, we have scripture stating that the wicked will have no rest day or night and the smoke of their torment will rise up forever and ever and instead of taking this at face value, they interpret it as annihilation and offer apologetics (lame excuses) to circumvent the truth. They ignore the supporting words in the context such as "forever and ever, eternal punishment, tormented, everlasting, etc." Now to the person who is truly seeking the truth, they would take those words in their plain literal sense, like reading a book. But because these people have adopted the false teachings of men, they do all that can to fight against the truth by distorting their meanings by applying apologetic after apologetic. They are unable to see the truth!
As I previously posted, I have gone over all of the arguments that they provide, so I already know the truth and the scriptures to support them.
The bottom line is that, God's word does not teach annihilation or extinction, which is stated right in the definition of the Greek words used to represent the translated words destroyed or perish.
Everyone who comes into the world exists forever, whether righteous or wicked. It is an individual's state at the time of death (reconciled or unreconciled) that determines the individuals eternal condition. Both life and death are states of never-ending existence either in the presence and joy of the Lord, or completely separated from the Lord's presence in torment in the lake of fire. This is what the combined scriptures teach and he and others are just going to have to find out directly from the Lord Himself.
Thanks Ahwatukee, for your reply.
So you're saying that our salvation is dependent on our view in this matter? You can't be serious, surely. It is a view Christians can agree or disagree on without their salvation being affected. I still think you should deal with what delirious has said, things you haven't addressed in any of your answers.
So you're saying that our salvation is dependent on our view in this matter? You can't be serious, surely. It is a view Christians can agree or disagree on without their salvation being affected. I still think you should deal with what delirious has said, things you haven't addressed in any of your answers.
-
1
- Show all
You are confused about immortality, which applies only to mortal bodies. Here is what the Bible teaches.
1. The souls and spirits of all human beings are IMPERISHABLE -- they remain for eternity.
2. The eternal destiny of a person is based upon his response to the Gospel Those who believe receive eternal life. Those who do not are eternally damned.
3. There is a resurrection for the righteous (saved) and a separate resurrection for the unrighteous (unsaved).
4. The righteous receive glorious IMMORTAL BODIES which are joined to their imperishable souls and spirits for eternity.
5. The unrighteous also receive IMMORTAL BODIES, which are joined to their souls and spirits which were in Hades, and which are then cast into the Lake of Fire for eternal torment -- body, soul, and spirit.
6. Only the cults reject these doctrines and teach Soul Sleep and Annihilationism. So you can either join the cultists or believe the Word of God.
1. The souls and spirits of all human beings are IMPERISHABLE -- they remain for eternity.
2. The eternal destiny of a person is based upon his response to the Gospel Those who believe receive eternal life. Those who do not are eternally damned.
3. There is a resurrection for the righteous (saved) and a separate resurrection for the unrighteous (unsaved).
4. The righteous receive glorious IMMORTAL BODIES which are joined to their imperishable souls and spirits for eternity.
5. The unrighteous also receive IMMORTAL BODIES, which are joined to their souls and spirits which were in Hades, and which are then cast into the Lake of Fire for eternal torment -- body, soul, and spirit.
6. Only the cults reject these doctrines and teach Soul Sleep and Annihilationism. So you can either join the cultists or believe the Word of God.
There appears to be a growing tendency by a minority element associated with “Christendom” to contend that the fate of the wicked will be utter annihilation (non-existence), as opposed to a conscious suffering in an eternal hell. This departure from biblical truth has been gradual but steady.
Death
The concept of “death,” or the state of being “dead,” is a prevailing theme in the New Testament. These terms are found collectively some 250 times. Though the use of the words may vary, depending upon the context, the underlying sense of “death” is that of “separation” —not “annihilation.”
Physical Death
The physical death process involves the separation of the human spirit or soul from the physical body. The death of Rachel, Jacob’s wife, was described as her “soul” departing from her “body” (Gen. 35:18). At the point of death, the body returns to the dust, but the spirit returns to God (Eccl. 12:6-7) —who will deal with it appropriately (Gen. 18:25).
The death of the body is biblically defined by the departure of the spirit (Jas. 2:26). Scholars have noted that for the “vast mass of mankind” death has never been viewed as nonexistence (J.S. Clemens, Hastings Dictionary of the Bible, Peabody, MA: Hendrickson, 1989, p. 181).
Spiritual Death
Spiritual death is the condition of being alienated from Jehovah. Since sin separates a person from God (Isa. 59:1-2), the state of being estranged from the Creator is depicted metaphorically as the person being dead. When Adam and Eve disobeyed God, that very “day” they died (Gen. 2:17; cf. 3:8,23), i.e., they were separated from fellowship with the Lord (though other implications likely are involved as well; see 3:19).
Prior to their conversion, the Ephesian saints had been spiritually “dead” (Eph. 2:1), i.e., alienated from the Lord (2:12-13). It is possible to be “dead” spiritually while alive physically. Paul declared that the widow who devotes herself to pleasure is “dead,” even though she is alive (1 Tim. 5:6). Christ wrote a letter to the church in Sardis wherein he described a significant portion of these disciples as “dead” (Rev. 3:1), that is they had drifted from Christian fidelity.
The “Second Death”
The second death is an ultimate and eternal separation from God. The expression is found four times in the book of Revelation ( 2:11; 20:6,14; 21:8). J.H. Thayer defined the “second death” as “the miserable state of the wicked dead in hell” (Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, Edinburgh: T.&T. Clark, 1958, p. 283).
This condition is characterized as the second death because it follows physical death; it is designated as death because it is the terminal separation from the Lord (Mt. 7:23; 25:41; 2 Thes. 1:9). Try substituting the term “annihilation” for “death” in the Revelation passages and see what sort of sense it makes, e.g., “the second annihilation.” The very expression represents an absurdity. There is absolutely no biblical evidence that “hell” will involve the extermination of either Satan, evil angels, or wicked humans (Mt. 25:41,46; Rev. 14:9-11; 20:10).
Conclusion
The dogma of annihilation is not an innocent view with harmless consequences. It is a concept that undermines the full force of that fearful warning of which the Almighty God would have men be aware. There is many a rebel who would gladly indulge himself in a lifetime of sin for an eternal nothingness.
SOURCE: https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/710-second-death-separation-or-annihilation-the
My own comments: You are making the mistake of assuming "second death" means "dying again physically" or "ceasing to exist". The word destruction is apollumi and often times that word is used for "LOST SHEEP" of Israel, now these sheep werent non-existent at the time Jesus said that.
Also I would like to point out the part I bolded is exactly my concern with annihilationism, its the DREAM COME TRUE for atheists. Party hard, and not exist later.
Death
The concept of “death,” or the state of being “dead,” is a prevailing theme in the New Testament. These terms are found collectively some 250 times. Though the use of the words may vary, depending upon the context, the underlying sense of “death” is that of “separation” —not “annihilation.”
Physical Death
The physical death process involves the separation of the human spirit or soul from the physical body. The death of Rachel, Jacob’s wife, was described as her “soul” departing from her “body” (Gen. 35:18). At the point of death, the body returns to the dust, but the spirit returns to God (Eccl. 12:6-7) —who will deal with it appropriately (Gen. 18:25).
The death of the body is biblically defined by the departure of the spirit (Jas. 2:26). Scholars have noted that for the “vast mass of mankind” death has never been viewed as nonexistence (J.S. Clemens, Hastings Dictionary of the Bible, Peabody, MA: Hendrickson, 1989, p. 181).
Spiritual Death
Spiritual death is the condition of being alienated from Jehovah. Since sin separates a person from God (Isa. 59:1-2), the state of being estranged from the Creator is depicted metaphorically as the person being dead. When Adam and Eve disobeyed God, that very “day” they died (Gen. 2:17; cf. 3:8,23), i.e., they were separated from fellowship with the Lord (though other implications likely are involved as well; see 3:19).
Prior to their conversion, the Ephesian saints had been spiritually “dead” (Eph. 2:1), i.e., alienated from the Lord (2:12-13). It is possible to be “dead” spiritually while alive physically. Paul declared that the widow who devotes herself to pleasure is “dead,” even though she is alive (1 Tim. 5:6). Christ wrote a letter to the church in Sardis wherein he described a significant portion of these disciples as “dead” (Rev. 3:1), that is they had drifted from Christian fidelity.
The “Second Death”
The second death is an ultimate and eternal separation from God. The expression is found four times in the book of Revelation ( 2:11; 20:6,14; 21:8). J.H. Thayer defined the “second death” as “the miserable state of the wicked dead in hell” (Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament, Edinburgh: T.&T. Clark, 1958, p. 283).
This condition is characterized as the second death because it follows physical death; it is designated as death because it is the terminal separation from the Lord (Mt. 7:23; 25:41; 2 Thes. 1:9). Try substituting the term “annihilation” for “death” in the Revelation passages and see what sort of sense it makes, e.g., “the second annihilation.” The very expression represents an absurdity. There is absolutely no biblical evidence that “hell” will involve the extermination of either Satan, evil angels, or wicked humans (Mt. 25:41,46; Rev. 14:9-11; 20:10).
Conclusion
The dogma of annihilation is not an innocent view with harmless consequences. It is a concept that undermines the full force of that fearful warning of which the Almighty God would have men be aware. There is many a rebel who would gladly indulge himself in a lifetime of sin for an eternal nothingness.
SOURCE: https://www.christiancourier.com/articles/710-second-death-separation-or-annihilation-the
My own comments: You are making the mistake of assuming "second death" means "dying again physically" or "ceasing to exist". The word destruction is apollumi and often times that word is used for "LOST SHEEP" of Israel, now these sheep werent non-existent at the time Jesus said that.
Also I would like to point out the part I bolded is exactly my concern with annihilationism, its the DREAM COME TRUE for atheists. Party hard, and not exist later.