The Bible teaches Annihilationism for the wicked

(Warning: This post is long and is in 2 parts. The first part is here in the original post and the second part is in the first reply so that it is all together)

The Bible teaches Annihilationism not ECT for the unsaved



What is ECT? It stands for Eternal Conscious Torment in hell. The aim of this paper is to take every verse in the Bible that seems to support ECT and demonstrate, using Scripture, that it means eternal destruction and not eternal suffering.



Sadly ECT has been the default view of the Christian church for close to 2,000 years. Who knows how many people have been turned off from becoming Christians because they think the God of the Bible tortures people forever in flames. Thankfully, the Bible does not teach this!



The God of the Bible is a God rich in mercy, grace, love and forgiveness. But He is also holy. The wicked must be destroyed. In this short paper, I hope to demonstrate that the Bible teaches the lost will be destroyed in the lake of fire and not suffer forever. My hope is that God will reveal His truth to you as you study this.



Now let us go to the verses that seem to support ECT (eternal conscious torment) and prove that they do not:



Daniel 12: 2, “Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.”



So we see the righteous being raised to eternal life in this verse but only eternal contempt for the wicked. What is this contempt? Is it eternal conscious torment? The Hebrew word used for “contempt” in Dan 12: 2 is “deraon”. It means contempt or abhorrence. It is used only one other time in the Old Testament.



Isaiah 66: 24, “And they shall go forth and look upon the corpses of the men who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, and their fire is not quenched and they shall be an abhorrence (deraon) to all flesh.”



We see the “contempt” or “abhorrence” being tied to corpses. Are corpses conscious? I don’t think so. We will examine the “worm not dying” and the “fire not quenched” in a later verse.



Let’s look at the next verse ECT proponents use:



Matthew 13: 49-50, “So it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come forth, separate the wicked from among the just, and cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.”



Those who believe in ECT will say that because it says “weeping and gnashing of teeth” that this must go on forever. The text does not say that though. That is reading into the text something that is not stated. The “weeping and gnashing of teeth” is simply a warning that it will be a terrible day for those who are condemned. When a person is judged unfavorably in court is there not “weeping and gnashing of teeth” in that persons soul?



Notice how the verse said “furnace of fire.” What happens in a fiery furnace? Things are burned up and consumed.



Hebrews 10: 26-27, “For if we sin willfully after receiving a knowledge of the truth there remains no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation that will consume the adversaries.”



Let’s look at the next verses used by the ECT proponent:



In the gospel of Matthew the term “outer darkness” is used 3 times in Matt 8: 12, 22: 13 and 25: 30. This is used erroneously to promote the idea that people sit in “outer darkness” forever being tortured. What does it really mean?



Jude verse 13 talks about ungodly men and says they are “wandering stars for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.”



Obadiah verse 16 when talking about the the “Day of the Lord” says about the wicked that, “they shall be as though they had never been.”



And 2 Peter 2: 17 also talking about ungodly men says, “for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.”



So what is this darkness? It is simply ceasing to exist. Being cutoff from God forever, never to live again. This darkness happens after the judgment seat of Christ for all the ungodly when they are burned up and consumed in the lake of fire (hell).



Let’s look at the next verse used by the ECT proponent:



Matthew 25: 46, “And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.”



This verse is talking about the sheep and goats judgment. The sheep are the righteous who inherit eternal life and the goats are the wicked who inherit eternal punishment. Notice that the verse does not say “eternal punishing” but “eternal punishment”.



It is a final judgment that happens to all the unsaved. Their punishment is eternal but is it eternal conscious torment? What does Jesus say about this in Matthew?



Matthew 10: 28, “And do not fear those who can kill the body but cannot kill the soul but fear Him who is able to destroy both body and soul in hell.



2 Thessalonians 1: 8-9, “in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who do not know God, and who do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ. These shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power”



The “eternal punishment” is ceasing to exist forever.



Let’s look at the next verse used by the ECT proponent:



Mark 9: 43-48, “If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. It is better for you to enter life maimed than with two hands to go into hell, into the fire that shall never be quenched where ‘their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched.’



The rest of this passage repeats two more times and substitutes “hand” with “foot” and “eye”. So what is this passage saying?



The Greek word for hell is “Gehenna”. Gehenna was the trash dump located just south of the city walls of Jerusalem in the valley of Hinnom. Garbage was taken there for the purpose of being burned up by the fires that were constantly burning in Gehenna. It was symbolic of complete and utter destruction and Jesus used it all the time in His teaching to refer to it as the fate of the wicked. People listening to Jesus would have had a clear idea of what He meant.



So what does it mean by “their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched?”



Jesus is quoting a verse that we looked at earlier in this study.



Isaiah 66: 24, “And they shall go forth and look upon the corpses of the men who have transgressed against Me. For their worm does not die, and their fire is not quenched and they shall be an abhorrence to all flesh.”



Notice once again, these are corpses. They are not alive. They are not being consciously tormented.



“Their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched” is figurative language that means they will be destroyed forever and is not literal. It is a symbolic/poetic phrase. If we take it literally that means we have immortal worms. Immortal worms in hell? It simply means “the worm will not die” until it has devoured the corpses. The destruction of the unsaved is final.



What about the “fire is not quenched?” Fire refers to irreversible and final judgment throughout the Bible. For example:



Jude verse 7, “as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities around them in a similar manner to these, having given themselves over to sexual immorality and gone after strange flesh, are set forth as an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.”



Is Sodom and Gomorrah still burning? Obviously not. The “eternal fire” is irreversible judgment. A fire that will not be quenched. In case you still have doubts here is another example:



Jeremiah 7: 20, Therefore thus says the Lord God: “Behold, My anger and My fury will be poured out on this place; on man and on beast, on the trees of the field and on the fruit of the ground. And it will burn and not be quenched.”



Are the trees, men, beasts and fruit still burning 2,700 years later after this prophecy was fulfilled? Of course not. It is irreversible judgment. A fire that will not be quenched.

(Post continued in part 2 in the first reply)

Let us go now to probably the strongest verse in favor of ECT (eternal conscious torment) and see if it really teaches that:



Revelation 14: 10-11, “…he will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the angels and of the lamb (Jesus). And the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast or his image, or anyone who receives the mark of his name.”



These verses look really strong for the ECT proponent. But not so fast…



There is a text in the Old Testament that mirrors Revelation 14 and gives us the true meaning:



Isaiah 34: 9-10, “Edom’s streams will be turned into pitch, her dust into burning sulfur; her land will become blazing pitch! It will not be quenched night or day; its smoke will rise forever.”



If we look at the context of Isaiah 34 it is talking about the total destruction of Edom.

Isaiah 34: 5 says Edom will be “completely destroyed” and Obadiah which is a book about the demise of Edom confirms in verses 10 and 18 that it will be “destroyed forever.” This is exactly what happened over 2,500 years ago when the Babylonians destroyed Edom in the 6th century B.C. Edom is not still being tormented. To further drive home this point let us look at the extremely similar language between Isaiah 34 and Revelation 14.



Isaiah 34 “burning sulfur” Revelation 14 “burning sulfur”

Isaiah 34 “smoke rises forever” Revelation 14 “smoke rises forever”

Isaiah 34 “not be quenched night or day” Rev 14 “no rest day or night”



This proves that Revelation 14: 10-11 cannot be used to refer to eternal conscious torment because in Isaiah 34: 9-10 it clearly refers to the eternal destruction of Edom. This also lines up with all the rest of the verses we have covered so far in this study.



Please take special notice that in Isaiah 34: 9-10 that Edom will burn and not be quenched “night or day”. Yet we know it was eventually consumed and destroyed.



So also the wicked people in Revelation 14: 10-11 will have “no rest day or night” until the burning sulfur (lake of fire) consumes them. This takes place after the judgment seat of Christ at the end of time. Then they will cease to exist just like Edom did 2,500 years ago.



Rev 21: 8 tells us also that burning sulfur is another name for the lake of fire. Which is the second death that all unbelievers experience after the judgment seat of Christ. They are burned up by God’s judgment and cease to exist forever. This is why Revelation 14: 10-11 also say, “they will be tormented in the burning sulfur in the presence of the angels and the Lamb” and then will cease to exist.



Jesus and the angels won’t be standing around for all eternity watching unbelievers suffer in the lake of fire. They will be quickly destroyed in their presence.



Another reason Revelation 14: 10-11 cannot mean eternal conscious torment is similar language is used about the destruction of Babylon in Revelation chapters 18 and 19.



Revelation 18: verses 9 & 18 talk about Babylon and “the smoke of her burning.” Verses 10 & 15 talk about people standing at a distance for “fear of her torment.” Does this mean ECT? Verse 8 says Babylon will be “consumed by fire.” And Rev 19 verse 3 says, “the smoke from here goes up forever and ever.”



This is the same language as Rev 14: 10-11 and means complete destruction not eternal conscious torment. Besides, how is Babylon, a city, consciously tormented forever? This is clearly figurative language showing that all enemies of God will be destroyed, never to live again.



Let’s look at the last verse used by ECT proponents:



Revelation 20: 10, “And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur (lake of fire/hell), where the beast and false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night forever and ever.”



Does this mean eternal conscious torment? No.



Looking at Revelation 13: 1-2 we see a description of the beast. The imagery is taken from Daniel 7: 1-7. The beast represents all kingdoms/governments of the world that oppose God’s kingdom and set man up as ruler of the world apart from God. Can kingdoms/governments be tormented consciously forever and ever? The answer is obviously no. They are abstract entities and not actual people who can be “tormented”.



What about the devil? Let’s look at Ezekiel to find out his fate…



Ezekiel 28: verses 1-19 is a prophecy about the King of Tyre from the 6th century B.C. All commentators agree that verses 1-10 are about the King of Tyre but verses 12-19 are actually about the devil. Let’s look at parts of those verses:



Ezekiel 28: 12-19, “…you were full of wisdom and perfect in beauty…you were in Eden, the Garden of God…every precious stone was your covering…you were the anointed cherub who guards…you were on the holy mountain of God…you were blameless in your ways from the day you were created until iniquity was found in you…you were filled with violence and you sinned…I cast you as profane from the mountain of God…your heart was filled with pride because of your beauty…I cast you to the ground…I brought fire from your midst…it has consumed you…I turned you to ashes upon the earth…all who knew you among the people are astonished at you…you have become a horror…and shall be no more forever.”



So we can see from Ezekiel 28 that the devil will be destroyed and will also cease to exist. Rev 20: 10 is more figurative/poetic language when it says “tormented night and day forever and ever” which means to cease to exist forever as we have seen from other texts in this study.



One last passage that needs to be addressed briefly is the parable about “Lazarus and the Rich Man” in Luke 16: 19-31. Those who believe in ECT will point to this passage as proof of eternal conscious torment. This passage simply is not admissible to this debate.



The parable is describing the intermediate state between death and the final judgment. The focus of this paper is addressing whether people will be tormented consciously in hell forever after the final judgment.



Since what happens between death and the final judgment is a whole other topic, and would be a quite lengthy discussion, I will not be addressing it in this paper. Some views include: soul sleep for all people, consciousness for all people, consciousness for the righteous only, soul sleep for the wicked until the final judgment etc…



Conclusion



The Bible does not teach eternal conscious torment in the lake of fire (hell). It teaches that all enemies of God will be eternally destroyed at the judgment seat of Christ which is the final judgment for all humans, fallen angels and the devil himself.



The fact that abstract entities like “Death” and “Hades” (the grave), and the “beast” are also thrown into the lake of fire proves it is not a place of eternal conscious torment. The lake of fire is most likely symbolic of the “fire of God’s judgment/wrath” that consumes all His enemies. This is how fire is consistently used throughout the Bible. Hebrews 12: 29, “Our God is a consuming fire.”



The word translated “hell” in your English Bibles is the Greek word “Gehenna”. This was the garbage dump just south and west of Jerusalem that was constantly burning and always had worms/maggots devouring its refuse. Jesus used this imagery often in His teaching to demonstrate the fate of the wicked. People listening to Jesus would have known this meant to be consumed and not tormented forever.



Rev 20: 11-15 tells us about the final judgment that all men must face. All human beings that have ever lived will be resurrected and will stand before Christ and be judged by Him. All who are unbelievers will be cast into the “lake of fire” which is called the “second death” in verses 14 and 15. This is the death of the soul (that Jesus mentions in Matt 10: 28) which will be consumed by the fires of God’s judgment (lake of fire) and destroyed in His and the holy angels presence. It is probably not a literal place. Fire represents God’s irreversible and final judgment against someone as this paper has repeatedly demonstrated using the Scriptures.



There will be “weeping and gnashing of teeth” when people are condemned to eternal destruction in the fire. The “lake of fire” is symbolism for the complete and utter destruction of all enemies of God who will cease to exist forever.

God bless you all and thank you for reading. (I know it was long)

/bump

Thump for a ignored thread.

How else are yer gonna get the elect to accept the gospel without the threat of hell fire?

Hilarious.....

The new bible verse....

Every word of God is inspired and does not mean what it says, is open to personal interpretation and eternal means temporary, everlasting means short lived and no one can understand the word because the verbiage inspired cannot be taken at face value......!

More JWism......!!!

It not only was long it was not Biblical. Can you please tell all here what Jesus meant when He said the following at Matthew 26:24? "The Son of Man is to go just as it is written of Him; but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! IT WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER FOR THAT MAN IF HE HAD NOT BEEN BORN." Can you explain the import of what Jesus' point was delirious?

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

In other words: You are preaching good news to everyone who wants to go out and sin and depart from the faith.

Here we were thinking Jesus knew what He was talking about. Lucky for us we have delirious to set us straight. Turns out we misunderstood eternal and thought it means everlasting, we thought weeping and gnashing of teeth meant anger and pain, ROOKIE MISTAKES. Now we know it means going to sleep, non-existance. The atheists were right after all.

Thanks delirious =)

Right back at you. How many people have BECOME christian because of hell being preached?

How many atheists decide NOT to become christians since there is nothing to lose, you are preaching to them that they are right, they just dont exist after death!
HERESY

I don't think you probably even read the post. I can understand that since it is pretty long. But you probably shouldn't comment then if you don't read it. I gave valid biblical reasons why the words mean different than what you think they mean.

If torment in hell isnt eternal neither is living with God eternal.

You are assuming that the part in bold means that he must suffer eternal conscious torment. Where does Jesus say that in the verse?

How is eternal destruction good news? To imply that because they get destroyed they are getting off the hook is silly. God is not mocked, we reap what we sow. People who are alcoholics often suffer liver damage and premature deaths. They are not getting off the hook.

There will also be suffering at the judgment seat of Christ for the lost before they are destroyed in the lake of fire. I am not sure if you read my whole post (I understand it is very long) but I gave very valid biblical reasons why God destroys people and does not torment them forever. Do you have scriptural reasons to disagree with any of the verses I put forth and their explanations?

If you're Hillary and this is what happened to her emails and servers?

There may be some truth to that statement. Fair enough.

Nothing to lose? That's because Atheists think this life is all there is. When they die they will find out they were horribly wrong.

Perishing forever and being shut out from God's presence is losing everything! Lost people will realize how grievous their mistake is when it is too late. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when they are condemned. Then they will be destroyed. If you disagree with my conclusions from my paper please use a scriptural argument and not an emotional one because you think people should suffer forever. Bible doesn't teach that.

God is eternal. Salvation is eternal. Damnation is eternal.

I agree. But what is the nature of the damnation? That's what my paper was addressing.

This is another assumption not based on Scripture. Torment is forever. But what is the nature of the torment? The scripture teaches it is ceasing to exist.

"They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb."

One would have to be existing and conscious in order to be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and the Lamb. I don't even have to read the rest of your post, because this alone kills the idea of annihilation or non-existence.

There are people who commit suicide on a daily basis around the world and that because they believe that once they accomplish this they will become non-existent. By yours and others belief, God would be giving them exactly what they wanted in the first place.

Besides all the scriptures that teach eternal punishment and everlasting fire, all sin is against a Holy, righteous, eternal God and that is why the punishment is eternal, i.e. conscious punishment in separation from God in the lake of fire.

You will be held accountable for these false teachings

I agree that one would need to be conscious to be tormented in the lake of fire but you are assuming that it goes on forever. There are no verses that say that when you understand them correctly.

A person will still suffer punishment at the judgment seat of God. You are assuming that they can only be punished if they suffer forever. The Bible doesn't say that anywhere although you think does.

The punishment is eternal. It is ceasing to exist forever after being condemned and punished at the judgment seat of Christ and destroyed in the "lake of fire".

It is your version that is false. If you had read my post you would see that I have valid biblical reasons for why God destroys forever the lost. He does not punish them with eternal conscious torment. You would have seen that if you read my post. The idea of eternal suffering is a pagan idea that came from Hellenistic influence in the early church and people misreading the Scriptures.

I'm afraid that there is nothing that you can do to twist that scripture that I provided. It means what it says. One would have to be existing in order to be tormented (tortured) in the presence of the holy angels and the Lamb. Anything that you have explained is just a distortion of the truth. In addition, one would also have to be existing in order for there to be a weeping and gnashing of teeth. You'll find out the truth eventually from the One who wrote it and understand that all you have been doing is repeating the existing false teachings of men.

By your claim above, you would challenging the word of God as not being reliable. But I can assure you that it is, every bit of it.

Repent and believe the truth!