Daniel's 70 weeks correctly interpreted (in my opinion)

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delirious

Junior Member
Mar 16, 2017
490
97
28
#1
I wanted to offer, as concisely as I can, what I believe is the correct interpretation of Daniel’s 70 weeks for people’s consideration. I think if you read this you will find it worth your time.

Daniel prays throughout Chapter 9 for the forgiveness of Israel’s sins as well as his own. Gabriel is sent to give him the answer to this prayer.

Daniel 9: 24-27 is poetic in its structure. Verse 24 sets up this poetic structure which continues down through verses 25-27. Looking at in the Hebrew makes this obvious in my opinion.

It revolves around “your people” and “your holy city” mentioned in verse 24. “Your people” is two words in Hebrew. “Your holy city” is three words in Hebrew. Gabriel mentions 6 things to be accomplished within the 70 weeks in verse 24.

The first 3 things have to do with the “sins of the people” that Daniel was praying about. All 3 of these things are also 2 words each in Hebrew just like “your people”.

The last 3 things are all 3 words each in Hebrew just like “your holy city”. This sets up the poetic structure of the prophecy which continues through verses 25-27.

So each verse has a “part A” and a “part B”. The first half of each verse is about “your people” and the second half of each verse is about “your holy city”.

We also see that the first half of each verse is dealing with the “sins of the people” that Daniel was praying about. This is tied to the Messiah who is mentioned explicitly in verse 25A and 26A and implied in verse 27A. The 70 weeks are tied to this figure because He accomplishes those 6 things Gabriel mentions in verse 24.

The second half of each verse is talking about “your holy city”. In 25B we see, “the street and wall shall be built in troubled times”. In 26B and 27B we read about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D.

It is here where many people err in understanding the prophecy in my opinion. They think that verses 26 and 27 are chronological and have a 2,000 year gap and counting. They are not chronological. They are the same event. Verse 26 is being retold in verse 27 giving more details. This is called recapitulation and happens all the time in prophetic passages in the Bible. To prove this is true let me give an example:

The seals, trumpets and bowls in Revelation are all describing the same event. It goes from the beginning all the way to the end and then starts over and retells it again with more details.

The sixth seal, the seventh trumpet and the seventh bowl are all the same event which is the second coming of Christ. Rev 19: 17-21 as well as Rev 20: 7-10 are also describing the second coming of Christ. You have it retold or recapitulated 5 times in the book of Revelation. Also, the seven trumpets and seven bowls mirror each other very closely but give more details. More evidence of recapitulation. This happens many times in the Old Testament too. Ezekiel 39 is retelling Ezekiel 38. They are the same event. There are not two Gog and Magog wars.

The sixth seal describes in Rev 6: 12 that there is a “great earthquake” and in verse 14, “every mountain and island were moved out of its place”.

In the seventh bowl you get the same description. Rev 16: 18 says there was a “great earthquake” and in verse 20, “every island fled away, and the mountains were not found”. If a person insists these are not the same event but chronological you have every island and mountain moved out of their place twice. Twice? Seems a bit hard to believe.

These are the same events being recapitulated (or retold) with more details. You will also notice that Rev 11: 15-19, which describes the second coming of Christ at the seventh trumpet, immediately goes back to the beginning and Christ’s birth in Rev 12: 1 and following.

There are many more examples of prophecy in the Bible not being chronological but “retelling” the same events with more details. I believe this is also the case with Daniel 9: 26 and 27.

26A and 27A are the same event. Christ’s crucifixion. 26A says “after 69 weeks messiah shall be cut off”. 27A says “in the middle of the week (the 70th week) He shall cause the sacrifice and offering to cease”. “After 69” and “70” are the same thing when the prophecy has a limit of 70 weeks. They are synonyms.

This is why Gabriel said that those 6 things would be fulfilled in 70 weeks. Not 42 weeks, or 57 weeks or 69 weeks plus 2000 years plus another week. Gabriel said 70.

If you look closely at verses 26B and 27B they are also the same event. The destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D.

Some people teach that the 70th week is still future. This is not possible according to what Gabriel tells Daniel in Dan 9: 24. He says all 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks.

Some teach that the 69th week ended on Palm Sunday and 5 days later Jesus was crucified on Good Friday. If that is true, Jesus was crucified OUTSIDE the time frame of the 70 weeks.

In that system He is crucified AFTER the 69th week has ended and before the 70th week has begun. This is not possible because Gabriel says all 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks.

I mention this because many Christians are still looking for a “70th week” that begins when the Antichrist signs a peace treaty with Israel. In my opinion this will never happen because the 70th week was when Christ was crucified.

Another thing to keep in mind is that some people will say that Jerusalem and the temple were not destroyed during the 70 weeks so your interpretation can’t be right either. They will say that it suffers the same problem as someone who has the 70th week still in the future. This is not true.

Gabriel says only 6 things will be accomplished for Daniel’s people and city WITHIN the 70 weeks. The destruction of the city and the temple is not one of those 6 things mentioned! Many people miss that.

I believe my interpretation of the 70 weeks prophecy fits nicely and seems to have no problems that I can see.

Those that believe in a future 70th week have a fatal error in their interpretation. Gabriel says all 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks time frame. If Jesus is crucified AFTER/OUTSIDE the first 69 weeks, and He is also not crucified WITHIN the 70th week since that is still future, then He is not crucified WITHIN the time frame of the 70 weeks.

That is not possible. Gabriel says all 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks. One of those 6 things is “atoning for iniquity”. That is the gospel message. Christ must do that on the cross WITHIN the 70 weeks. Verses 26A and 27A tell you He does it in the middle of the 70th week.

Any interpretation that moves the 70th week to the future contradicts what Gabriel says in Dan 9: 24.

I offer my interpretation because I think it fits the prophecy and has no issues as far as I can tell.

To those who are still looking for a 7 year treaty between Antichrist and Israel, in my opinion, it will never happen. Daniel 9: 27 is the only verse they get that from but they have misinterpreted it.

Christ was crucified during the 70th week and there is no future week.
 

jb

Senior Member
Feb 27, 2010
4,940
591
113
#3
I wanted to offer, as concisely as I can, what I believe is the correct interpretation of Daniel’s 70 weeks for people’s consideration. I think if you read this you will find it worth your time.

Daniel prays throughout Chapter 9 for the forgiveness of Israel’s sins as well as his own. Gabriel is sent to give him the answer to this prayer.

Daniel 9: 24-27 is poetic in its structure. Verse 24 sets up this poetic structure which continues down through verses 25-27. Looking at in the Hebrew makes this obvious in my opinion.

It revolves around “your people” and “your holy city” mentioned in verse 24. “Your people” is two words in Hebrew. “Your holy city” is three words in Hebrew. Gabriel mentions 6 things to be accomplished within the 70 weeks in verse 24.

The first 3 things have to do with the “sins of the people” that Daniel was praying about. All 3 of these things are also 2 words each in Hebrew just like “your people”.

The last 3 things are all 3 words each in Hebrew just like “your holy city”. This sets up the poetic structure of the prophecy which continues through verses 25-27.

So each verse has a “part A” and a “part B”. The first half of each verse is about “your people” and the second half of each verse is about “your holy city”.

We also see that the first half of each verse is dealing with the “sins of the people” that Daniel was praying about. This is tied to the Messiah who is mentioned explicitly in verse 25A and 26A and implied in verse 27A. The 70 weeks are tied to this figure because He accomplishes those 6 things Gabriel mentions in verse 24.

The second half of each verse is talking about “your holy city”. In 25B we see, “the street and wall shall be built in troubled times”. In 26B and 27B we read about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D.

It is here where many people err in understanding the prophecy in my opinion. They think that verses 26 and 27 are chronological and have a 2,000 year gap and counting. They are not chronological. They are the same event. Verse 26 is being retold in verse 27 giving more details. This is called recapitulation and happens all the time in prophetic passages in the Bible. To prove this is true let me give an example:

The seals, trumpets and bowls in Revelation are all describing the same event. It goes from the beginning all the way to the end and then starts over and retells it again with more details.

The sixth seal, the seventh trumpet and the seventh bowl are all the same event which is the second coming of Christ. Rev 19: 17-21 as well as Rev 20: 7-10 are also describing the second coming of Christ. You have it retold or recapitulated 5 times in the book of Revelation. Also, the seven trumpets and seven bowls mirror each other very closely but give more details. More evidence of recapitulation. This happens many times in the Old Testament too. Ezekiel 39 is retelling Ezekiel 38. They are the same event. There are not two Gog and Magog wars.

The sixth seal describes in Rev 6: 12 that there is a “great earthquake” and in verse 14, “every mountain and island were moved out of its place”.

In the seventh bowl you get the same description. Rev 16: 18 says there was a “great earthquake” and in verse 20, “every island fled away, and the mountains were not found”. If a person insists these are not the same event but chronological you have every island and mountain moved out of their place twice. Twice? Seems a bit hard to believe.

These are the same events being recapitulated (or retold) with more details. You will also notice that Rev 11: 15-19, which describes the second coming of Christ at the seventh trumpet, immediately goes back to the beginning and Christ’s birth in Rev 12: 1 and following.

There are many more examples of prophecy in the Bible not being chronological but “retelling” the same events with more details. I believe this is also the case with Daniel 9: 26 and 27.

26A and 27A are the same event. Christ’s crucifixion. 26A says “after 69 weeks messiah shall be cut off”. 27A says “in the middle of the week (the 70th week) He shall cause the sacrifice and offering to cease”. “After 69” and “70” are the same thing when the prophecy has a limit of 70 weeks. They are synonyms.

This is why Gabriel said that those 6 things would be fulfilled in 70 weeks. Not 42 weeks, or 57 weeks or 69 weeks plus 2000 years plus another week. Gabriel said 70.

If you look closely at verses 26B and 27B they are also the same event. The destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D.

Some people teach that the 70th week is still future. This is not possible according to what Gabriel tells Daniel in Dan 9: 24. He says all 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks.

Some teach that the 69th week ended on Palm Sunday and 5 days later Jesus was crucified on Good Friday. If that is true, Jesus was crucified OUTSIDE the time frame of the 70 weeks.

In that system He is crucified AFTER the 69th week has ended and before the 70th week has begun. This is not possible because Gabriel says all 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks.

I mention this because many Christians are still looking for a “70th week” that begins when the Antichrist signs a peace treaty with Israel. In my opinion this will never happen because the 70th week was when Christ was crucified.

Another thing to keep in mind is that some people will say that Jerusalem and the temple were not destroyed during the 70 weeks so your interpretation can’t be right either. They will say that it suffers the same problem as someone who has the 70th week still in the future. This is not true.

Gabriel says only 6 things will be accomplished for Daniel’s people and city WITHIN the 70 weeks. The destruction of the city and the temple is not one of those 6 things mentioned! Many people miss that.

I believe my interpretation of the 70 weeks prophecy fits nicely and seems to have no problems that I can see.

Those that believe in a future 70th week have a fatal error in their interpretation. Gabriel says all 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks time frame. If Jesus is crucified AFTER/OUTSIDE the first 69 weeks, and He is also not crucified WITHIN the 70th week since that is still future, then He is not crucified WITHIN the time frame of the 70 weeks.

That is not possible. Gabriel says all 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks. One of those 6 things is “atoning for iniquity”. That is the gospel message. Christ must do that on the cross WITHIN the 70 weeks. Verses 26A and 27A tell you He does it in the middle of the 70th week.

Any interpretation that moves the 70th week to the future contradicts what Gabriel says in Dan 9: 24.

I offer my interpretation because I think it fits the prophecy and has no issues as far as I can tell.

To those who are still looking for a 7 year treaty between Antichrist and Israel, in my opinion, it will never happen. Daniel 9: 27 is the only verse they get that from but they have misinterpreted it.

Christ was crucified during the 70th week and there is no future week.
Fanciful, to say the least!
 
Apr 15, 2017
2,867
653
113
#4
Dan 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!
Mat 23:38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.
Mat 23:39 For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord.

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Jer 46:28 Fear thou not, O Jacob my servant, saith the LORD: for I am with thee; for I will make a full end of all the nations whither I have driven thee: but I will not make a full end of thee, but correct thee in measure; yet will I not leave thee wholly unpunished.

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

70 weeks are determined upon Israel to make an end of sins, and anoint the most holy who is Jesus, which means the by the end of the 70 weeks Israel as a nation has to be in the truth that Jesus is their Messiah, and then God will restore the kingdom on earth to the Jews, as He always restores them when they go astray.

Jesus came unto His own, but His own did not receive Him, so the 70th week could of not been fulfilled yet.

The Roman Empire overthrew Jerusalem and scattered the Jews in to the nations, and while they were scattered they could of not come to the truth as a nation that Jesus is their Messiah, so the 70th week could of not been fulfilled.

Israel became a nation again in 1948, but they did not accept Jesus as a nation so the 70th week could of not been fulfilled.

And Israel as a nation today does not accept Jesus as their Messiah, and they are blinded in part, until the fulness of the Gentile be come in, when salvation is no longer available to the Gentiles, and so all Israel shall be saved, for God will turn Israel to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah, and restore the kingdom on earth to them.

The 70th week is in the future, and is the time that God causes all people that do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom in Revelation 13, which the new age movement will pave the way to the beast kingdom, and when they do God will end this sin business on earth, and brings Israel as a nation to the truth that Jesus is their Messiah fulfilling the 70th week.

The Bible says plainly that 70 weeks are determined upon Israel as a nation to anoint the most holy who is Jesus, and accept Him, but we see that this has not happened yet.
 

GraceAndTruth

Well-known member
Sep 28, 2015
2,031
637
113
#5
Some folks study to be approved and some read Hal Lindsey and put their faith in Hal.
I covered Daniel 7-12 in the forum on Daniel the key to eschatology that puts me in the historical camp instead of the hysterical camp of those who look for signs while I look for Christ.
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#6
I wanted to offer, as concisely as I can, what I believe is the correct interpretation of Daniel’s 70 weeks for people’s consideration. I think if you read this you will find it worth your time.

Daniel prays throughout Chapter 9 for the forgiveness of Israel’s sins as well as his own. Gabriel is sent to give him the answer to this prayer.

Daniel 9: 24-27 is poetic in its structure. Verse 24 sets up this poetic structure which continues down through verses 25-27. Looking at in the Hebrew makes this obvious in my opinion.

It revolves around “your people” and “your holy city” mentioned in verse 24. “Your people” is two words in Hebrew. “Your holy city” is three words in Hebrew. Gabriel mentions 6 things to be accomplished within the 70 weeks in verse 24.

The first 3 things have to do with the “sins of the people” that Daniel was praying about. All 3 of these things are also 2 words each in Hebrew just like “your people”.

The last 3 things are all 3 words each in Hebrew just like “your holy city”. This sets up the poetic structure of the prophecy which continues through verses 25-27.

So each verse has a “part A” and a “part B”. The first half of each verse is about “your people” and the second half of each verse is about “your holy city”.

We also see that the first half of each verse is dealing with the “sins of the people” that Daniel was praying about. This is tied to the Messiah who is mentioned explicitly in verse 25A and 26A and implied in verse 27A. The 70 weeks are tied to this figure because He accomplishes those 6 things Gabriel mentions in verse 24.

The second half of each verse is talking about “your holy city”. In 25B we see, “the street and wall shall be built in troubled times”. In 26B and 27B we read about the destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D.

It is here where many people err in understanding the prophecy in my opinion. They think that verses 26 and 27 are chronological and have a 2,000 year gap and counting. They are not chronological. They are the same event. Verse 26 is being retold in verse 27 giving more details. This is called recapitulation and happens all the time in prophetic passages in the Bible. To prove this is true let me give an example:

The seals, trumpets and bowls in Revelation are all describing the same event. It goes from the beginning all the way to the end and then starts over and retells it again with more details.

The sixth seal, the seventh trumpet and the seventh bowl are all the same event which is the second coming of Christ. Rev 19: 17-21 as well as Rev 20: 7-10 are also describing the second coming of Christ. You have it retold or recapitulated 5 times in the book of Revelation. Also, the seven trumpets and seven bowls mirror each other very closely but give more details. More evidence of recapitulation. This happens many times in the Old Testament too. Ezekiel 39 is retelling Ezekiel 38. They are the same event. There are not two Gog and Magog wars.

The sixth seal describes in Rev 6: 12 that there is a “great earthquake” and in verse 14, “every mountain and island were moved out of its place”.

In the seventh bowl you get the same description. Rev 16: 18 says there was a “great earthquake” and in verse 20, “every island fled away, and the mountains were not found”. If a person insists these are not the same event but chronological you have every island and mountain moved out of their place twice. Twice? Seems a bit hard to believe.

These are the same events being recapitulated (or retold) with more details. You will also notice that Rev 11: 15-19, which describes the second coming of Christ at the seventh trumpet, immediately goes back to the beginning and Christ’s birth in Rev 12: 1 and following.

There are many more examples of prophecy in the Bible not being chronological but “retelling” the same events with more details. I believe this is also the case with Daniel 9: 26 and 27.

26A and 27A are the same event. Christ’s crucifixion. 26A says “after 69 weeks messiah shall be cut off”. 27A says “in the middle of the week (the 70th week) He shall cause the sacrifice and offering to cease”. “After 69” and “70” are the same thing when the prophecy has a limit of 70 weeks. They are synonyms.

This is why Gabriel said that those 6 things would be fulfilled in 70 weeks. Not 42 weeks, or 57 weeks or 69 weeks plus 2000 years plus another week. Gabriel said 70.

If you look closely at verses 26B and 27B they are also the same event. The destruction of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 A.D.

Some people teach that the 70th week is still future. This is not possible according to what Gabriel tells Daniel in Dan 9: 24. He says all 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks.

Some teach that the 69th week ended on Palm Sunday and 5 days later Jesus was crucified on Good Friday. If that is true, Jesus was crucified OUTSIDE the time frame of the 70 weeks.

In that system He is crucified AFTER the 69th week has ended and before the 70th week has begun. This is not possible because Gabriel says all 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks.

I mention this because many Christians are still looking for a “70th week” that begins when the Antichrist signs a peace treaty with Israel. In my opinion this will never happen because the 70th week was when Christ was crucified.

Another thing to keep in mind is that some people will say that Jerusalem and the temple were not destroyed during the 70 weeks so your interpretation can’t be right either. They will say that it suffers the same problem as someone who has the 70th week still in the future. This is not true.

Gabriel says only 6 things will be accomplished for Daniel’s people and city WITHIN the 70 weeks. The destruction of the city and the temple is not one of those 6 things mentioned! Many people miss that.

I believe my interpretation of the 70 weeks prophecy fits nicely and seems to have no problems that I can see.

Those that believe in a future 70th week have a fatal error in their interpretation. Gabriel says all 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks time frame. If Jesus is crucified AFTER/OUTSIDE the first 69 weeks, and He is also not crucified WITHIN the 70th week since that is still future, then He is not crucified WITHIN the time frame of the 70 weeks.

That is not possible. Gabriel says all 6 things will be accomplished WITHIN the 70 weeks. One of those 6 things is “atoning for iniquity”. That is the gospel message. Christ must do that on the cross WITHIN the 70 weeks. Verses 26A and 27A tell you He does it in the middle of the 70th week.

Any interpretation that moves the 70th week to the future contradicts what Gabriel says in Dan 9: 24.

I offer my interpretation because I think it fits the prophecy and has no issues as far as I can tell.

To those who are still looking for a 7 year treaty between Antichrist and Israel, in my opinion, it will never happen. Daniel 9: 27 is the only verse they get that from but they have misinterpreted it.

Christ was crucified during the 70th week and there is no future week.
I see it like this. 7 weeks go by then 62 weeks then the last week or 70th week starts. In the midst of the 70th week Christ confirms the covenant God made with Abraham and he being the TRUE Lamb of God, he ended the need for shadow sacrifices.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,923
2,118
113
#7
[…] that puts me in the historical camp instead of the hysterical camp of those who look for signs while I look for Christ.
There are no "signs" leading up to (or pointing to) our "rapture"; all of the "signs" spoken of in Scripture (in relation to His Second Coming to the earth) FOLLOW our rapture (meaning, AFTER the rapture takes place), and lead up to (point toward) His Second Coming to the earth (and not our rapture). So "pre-tribbers" (such as myself) are not looking for "signs".
 

delirious

Junior Member
Mar 16, 2017
490
97
28
#8
I see it like this. 7 weeks go by then 62 weeks then the last week or 70th week starts. In the midst of the 70th week Christ confirms the covenant God made with Abraham and he being the TRUE Lamb of God, he ended the need for shadow sacrifices.
Romans 15: 8, "Now I say that Jesus Christ has become a servant to the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made to the fathers." There is the confirming of the covenant in Dan 9: 27A. Unfortunately, some attribute this to the antichrist which is a shame.
 

delirious

Junior Member
Mar 16, 2017
490
97
28
#9
70 weeks are determined upon Israel to make an end of sins, and anoint the most holy who is Jesus, which means the by the end of the 70 weeks Israel as a nation has to be in the truth that Jesus is their Messiah, and then God will restore the kingdom on earth to the Jews, as He always restores them when they go astray.
Gabriel mentions 6 things that will be accomplished within the 70 weeks. I don't see that one listed.

The Jews don't need to accept Jesus for those things Gabriel mentions to happen. The context of the prophecy tells you Jesus will be cut off "AFTER THE 69TH WEEK". That means rejected not accepted.

"AFTER 69 WEEKS" is the same as 'DURING THE 70TH WEEK". They are synonyms. The prophecy is only 70 weeks long. Not 69 weeks plus 2000 years plus another 1 week.

if your interpretation is true, then Jesus died OUTSIDE the 70 week time frame. Not possible according to Gabriel in Dan 9: 24.
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#10
Romans 15: 8, "Now I say that Jesus Christ has become a servant to the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made to the fathers." There is the confirming of the covenant in Dan 9: 27A. Unfortunately, some attribute this to the antichrist which is a shame.
It is a shame and I used to be one of them so there is hope. Here's another one about Christ confirming the covenant.

Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,923
2,118
113
#11
It is a shame and I used to be one of them so there is hope. Here's another one about Christ confirming the covenant.

Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
So who do you believe is the "they" of this passage:


27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.


...and why "as concerning the gospel, enemies FOR YOUR SAKES" ? ("your sakes" who?) Are the "they/them" identical to the "your" here?
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,923
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#12
And Galatians 3:17 says, "the covenant confirmed beforehand by God..." [well before the law] (so this is not referring to the 32ad point in time, and Christ confirming it at that point in time [or, say, at the start of His earthly ministry], if that's what you were suggesting this verse says. Perhaps you weren't.)

https://biblehub.com/text/galatians/3-17.htm
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
113
#13
So who do you believe is the "they" of this passage:


27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
[/QUOTE"]

...and why "as concerning the gospel, enemies FOR YOUR SAKES" ? ("your sakes" who?) Are the "they/them" identical to the "your" here?
The "they" is Israel. Christ took away the sins of every Jew that accepted Christ as their savior.

"As concerning the gospel, they are enemies" these are unsaved Jews. I can only give opinion on why they are our enemies but I think it's because they try to undermine God's people like Judaizers, law keepers etc. This causes us (at least me) to dig into scripture to prove they're wrong.

"But as touching the election" these are the saved Jews.
 
Nov 23, 2013
13,684
1,212
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#14
And Galatians 3:17 says, "the covenant confirmed beforehand by God..." [well before the law] (so this is not referring to the 32ad point in time, and Christ confirming it at that point in time [or, say, at the start of His earthly ministry], if that's what you were suggesting this verse says. Perhaps you weren't.)

https://biblehub.com/text/galatians/3-17.htm
I'm not sure what version that is but here it is from the KJV.

Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

It says "the covenant that was confirmed BEFORE God (i.e. in front of God) in Christ..."
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,923
2,118
113
#15
^ Nah. The kjv reads "before OF God" (rather than "before God" i.e. in front of Him), which gives a completely different sense.

The link I supplied just shows the Greek/interlinear-type view of the text.
 

delirious

Junior Member
Mar 16, 2017
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#16
And Galatians 3:17 says, "the covenant confirmed beforehand by God..." [well before the law] (so this is not referring to the 32ad point in time, and Christ confirming it at that point in time [or, say, at the start of His earthly ministry], if that's what you were suggesting this verse says. Perhaps you weren't.)
I'm not sure what version that is but here it is from the KJV.

Gal 3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

It says "the covenant that was confirmed BEFORE God (i.e. in front of God) in Christ..."
KJV1611, that is why I don't like to use Gal 3: 17 very often. There is a textual variant there in the manuscripts. Some manuscripts have "in Christ" and others do not.

It doesn't change what Romans 15: 8 says, "Now I say that Jesus Christ has become a servant to the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made to the fathers."

That's exactly what Daniel 9: 27A says that He does. That's why "in Christ" is appropriate in Gal 3: 17. Because it is correct.

Christ did "confirm the promises" at His crucifixion but someone like Watermark will argue about the textual variant so they do not have to accept the truth of what that Scripture says. Romans 15: 8 proves that Gal 3: 17 should have "in Christ".

Nevertheless, Romans 15: 8 does not have a textual variant so Watermark is stuck with that one.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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#17
Here's a quote by Kelly I was going to put (re: Rom11), in response to KJV1611's Post #13:

[quoting]

"To say with Calvin that "until" (ἄχρις οὗ) does not mark this but only equivalent to "that" shows the strong prejudice of a good man whose knowledge of the language was imperfect and who missed to a great extent the point of the chapter before him, through that wisdom in one's own conceit against which the apostle is warning the Gentiles. That "the fulness of the Gentiles" cannot mean the general conversion of the world to Christ, is perfectly certain if it were only from the previous reasoning of the apostle in the central portion of the chapter, where he asks if the slips of the Jews were the world's riches, how much more their fulness? and shows how he was provoking them to jealousy to save some; for if their rejection be the world's reconciling, what their reception but life from among the dead? And this, as already shown, harmonizes with the constant testimony of the Law, and the Psalms, and the Prophets, which invariably make the blessing of Israel as a creation the condition and under God the means of the blessing of all the earth - a new state of things, not the gospel or the church as now known, both of which are inconsistent with it, but the kingdom in its manifestation of glory when in the broadest sense all flesh shall see the salvation of God. Here the commentators are, I must say, painfully defective. The effort of some ancients, and of moderns like Grotius and Hammond, to find the accomplishment in the apostolic times is of all schemes the grossest absurdity, and the most directly opposed to the text commented on.

"It may be added that, though Dean Alford took the term Israel in its proper sense, he like the rest spoils much of the force of the truth by winding up with the assertion that the matter here treated is their reception into the church of God. Not so. The question of the olive tree stands wholly distinct from the church, though no doubt there are branches now in the olive tree since Pentecost which are also members of Christ's body, the assembly of God. But the olive tree is another idea altogether and embraces the dealings of God on the footing of promise since Abraham through Israel of old, the Gentile profession now, and Israel again in the millennial age, not believers only but responsibility according to the privileges given, with judgment executed on the faithless Jewish branches of the tree to let in the Gentiles, as it will be executed on the disobedient Gentiles when God will give repentance to Israel and remission of sins at the appearing of Christ and His kingdom.

"Hence the apostle goes on to affirm what is wholly different from the gospel and church state. "According to the gospel, [they are] enemies on your account; but according to the election, beloved on account of the fathers.* For the gifts and the calling of God [are] irrevocable." (Ver. 28, 29.) The meaning is that, after the Jews proved their hostility to the gospel instead of being saved by it, which God turns, as we have seen, to His gracious call of the Gentiles meanwhile, election love will still prove faithful in the latter day to the sons for the sake of the fathers. This is not the principle on which souls are blessed now whether from Gentiles or from Jews. There is no difference. All are alike guilty and lost through their sins; all alike forgiven and saved through faith. But after the actual unbelief of the Jews, sovereign mercy will interpose at the end of the age. For the gifts and the calling of God admit of no regret on His part. He may repent of creation (Gen. 6), never of what grace gave in promise to Abraham and to his seed, never of His call which was first illustrated publicly in the father of the faithful. According to that "election" He will yet break their stony heart and put a new spirit within them."

--William Kelly, Commentary on Romans 11 [source: Bible Hub]

[end quoting; bold mine]
 
Nov 23, 2013
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#18
^ Nah. The kjv reads "before OF God" (rather than "before God" i.e. in front of Him), which gives a completely different sense.

The link I supplied just shows the Greek/interlinear-type view of the text.
You go with the Greek and I’ll go with KJV.😊
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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#19
Nov 23, 2013
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#20
:) That's fine, but I was pointing out that "before OF God" (as the kjv has it) is a completely different meaning and connotation from that of "before God" (the thing you later said).
You are absolutely right i apologize. That’s what I get for chatting and watching tv at the same time. 😊