How do we have a sexual counter-revolution in the church

It grieves me to hear of so many young people losing their virginity before marriage-- even young people who were raised in church. There are even churches now where attendees live together as boyfriend and girlfriend, but are not married.

I waited. My wife waited. I have a heart to help other young people wait and to encourage those who have fallen into the sin of fornication to repent.

What can be done to reverse the trend, especially in the church, but also in society? I know-- teach the word of God. But let's talk about some other practical strategies of how to get more churches to focus on truths related to these topics, church discipline, or whatever other means through which God's grace can work.

But let's talk about some other practical strategies of how to get more churches to focus on truths related to these topics, church discipline, or whatever other means through which God's grace can work.

Well, at the most abvious level don't you think? We have a president of the U.S. ( On television for all to see! ) Saying that he could grab women by their private parts!!! Don't you think we are not working on this? I'ts gonna take time my brother in Christ...

American churches were probably declining for 100 years before Trump got into office...

I don't think you get to blame the entire decline of protestant ethics on one guy.




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That is not what I said. You were talking about the American decline of chastity . I was saying that maybe we should'nt have the" president" going around saying that he can "go around doing this to random women" because he is rich,, That's all...

1. We don't have a president going around saying things like that... he wasn't the president when he said that, and he's never said anything like that since he's been president.

2. His statement about grabbing women had nothing to do with being "rich", it was predicated on him being famous. That's a very important distinction if we dealing with criticism coming from Marxists... which is a common vector of criticism.

3. I don't like what he said either... but since he's not voicing similar statements currently, and he's already apologized for it, I can't see that it's terribly relevant.

4. I can't see that the sitting president really has anything to do with the topic raised by the OP.
A. The president didn't cause these moral declines in society.
B. The president isn't exacerbating these problems since he made his gaff many years ago, and has since apologized for it.
C. So it's fine if you dislike the president; that's perfectly fine, but he just has nothing to do with this thread. It seems silly to inject a dislike of the president into topics that have nothing to do with him.


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So you are saying that he is a changed man from the time he did this . to the time he slept with the porn star when his current wife was 6 months pregnant with their child? Think not...

1. "So you are saying that he is a changed man...?"
I never said any such thing.
But I did explain, very specifically, and factually, how a PARTICULAR STATEMENT you brought up has nothing to do with the OP...which is what we're actually discussing.


If Trump said something 13 years ago, before he was president, and he has since apologized for saying it, admitting it was wrong, then he isn't condoning that statement or opinion, he is doing the OPPOSITE of condoning and perpetuating it by admitting it was wrong.

THAT PARTICULAR STATEMENT is what you brought up, and THAT PARTICULAR STATEMENT is what I addressed.
- I didn't defend the statement, or defend Trump.
- I did however show that this particular statement has nothing to do with the OP, which is what you alleged.

I simply showed, factually, that THAT PARTICULAR STATEMENT has absolutely nothing to do with the moral decline of churches in America, a process which had been underway for at least 100 years before Trump ever came to office.

- You can't just blame everything in the universe on Trump because you dislike him... it makes you sound ridiculous.
- You can't just blame me for saying things I never said... that also makes you sound ridiculous.

The Point:
A. I showed, clearly, that this statement from 13 years ago, which you brought up, has nothing to do with the OP.
B. Instead of agreeing with facts and logic, which easily verify this... you simply changed the subject, and brought up something else you dislike about Trump.
C. We can go on like this all day, showing each particular problem with Trump, and then addressing each particular problem to show it probably has nothing to do with the OP... but that would be to derail the thread, and MISS THE ENTIRE POINT. The OP isn't about TRUMP, it's about systemic problems that have been around for at least 100 years.

The left is REALLY fixated on Trump to the point of just sheer lunacy.



2. My whole point is that the OPENING POST was NOT political... but because you dislike Trump so much, you just randomly DECIDED to INJECT him into this topic, and turn this thread into a POLITICAL PROTEST.

We get it.
We get it that you dislike Trump.
That's perfectly fine.

But this thread wasn't about him, and it really had nothing to do with politics at all.
The OP was addressing social, cultural, and spiritual problems that have been ongoing for at least 100 years, and maybe longer.

Injecting Trump into everything possible just makes you sound ridiculous.



3. Here is how conversations go in America, in 2018.

* Person A. "There is some kind of problem in society, it's a problem of (insert any problem here)."
* Person B. "TRUMP DID IT!"

That is a ridiculous argument, and I hear it a thousand times a day... and it's not just tiring, it's silly, and it's logically impossible.

It's logically impossible for ONE MAN to have caused EVERY PROBLEM IN AMERICA in ONLY 2 YEARS.




Conclusion:
1. Trump has nothing to do with the OP... these are systemic problems that began at least 100 years ago.

2. Maybe Trump is helping, maybe he's hurting... but he's only been in office 2 years, and it's simply irrational to make him the FOCAL POINT, and the CAUSE, of problems that have been underway for over a century.

3. It's also irrational to accuse me of things I never said, and accuse me of defending someone I never defended - I very clearly did nothing more than address the issues you raised and showed they have nothing to do with this OP. Furthermore, there's no reason to be all upset with me, because I never kicked your dog, or ate your cookies, or made it rain, or did whatever it is you're so upset about.

4. If I ever meet you in person, I WILL EAT YOUR COOKIES, so then we'll finally have something FACTUAL to discuss, instead of all these imaginary offenses.


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Sorry for addressing the Elephant in the room. And if you ever attempted to take anything of mine I promise we would'nt be talking... LOL!!!

A.

There is no "elephant in the room."

You just dislike Trump a lot, which is your right, and your strong emotions press you to make him the focal point of conversations that have nothing to do with him.




B.

It's perfectly fine if you dislike Trump.

Please just inject that into conversations in which it's relevant.




C.

If I thought stealing your cookies would drive you to violence, I would probably return them...

after I chewed them a little.





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But let's talk about some other practical strategies of how to get more churches to focus on truths related to these topics, church discipline, or whatever other means through which God's grace can work.

First, we need to determine whether the person(s) in question is (are) actually Christian. Mere attendance at a regular services is not confirmation of that.

1. "So you are saying that he is a changed man...?"
I never said any such thing.
But I did explain, very specifically, and factually, how a PARTICULAR STATEMENT you brought up has nothing to do with the OP...which is what we're actually discussing.


If Trump said something 13 years ago, before he was president, and he has since apologized for saying it, admitting it was wrong, then he isn't condoning that statement or opinion, he is doing the OPPOSITE of condoning and perpetuating it by admitting it was wrong.

THAT PARTICULAR STATEMENT is what you brought up, and THAT PARTICULAR STATEMENT is what I addressed.
- I didn't defend the statement, or defend Trump.
- I did however show that this particular statement has nothing to do with the OP, which is what you alleged.

I simply showed, factually, that THAT PARTICULAR STATEMENT has absolutely nothing to do with the moral decline of churches in America, a process which had been underway for at least 100 years before Trump ever came to office.

- You can't just blame everything in the universe on Trump because you dislike him... it makes you sound ridiculous.
- You can't just blame me for saying things I never said... that also makes you sound ridiculous.

The Point:
A. I showed, clearly, that this statement from 13 years ago, which you brought up, has nothing to do with the OP.
B. Instead of agreeing with facts and logic, which easily verify this... you simply changed the subject, and brought up something else you dislike about Trump.
C. We can go on like this all day, showing each particular problem with Trump, and then addressing each particular problem to show it probably has nothing to do with the OP... but that would be to derail the thread, and MISS THE ENTIRE POINT. The OP isn't about TRUMP, it's about systemic problems that have been around for at least 100 years.

The left is REALLY fixated on Trump to the point of just sheer lunacy.



2. My whole point is that the OPENING POST was NOT political... but because you dislike Trump so much, you just randomly DECIDED to INJECT him into this topic, and turn this thread into a POLITICAL PROTEST.

We get it.
We get it that you dislike Trump.
That's perfectly fine.

But this thread wasn't about him, and it really had nothing to do with politics at all.
The OP was addressing social, cultural, and spiritual problems that have been ongoing for at least 100 years, and maybe longer.

Injecting Trump into everything possible just makes you sound ridiculous.



3. Here is how conversations go in America, in 2018.

* Person A. "There is some kind of problem in society, it's a problem of (insert any problem here)."
* Person B. "TRUMP DID IT!"

That is a ridiculous argument, and I hear it a thousand times a day... and it's not just tiring, it's silly, and it's logically impossible.

It's logically impossible for ONE MAN to have caused EVERY PROBLEM IN AMERICA in ONLY 2 YEARS.




Conclusion:
1. Trump has nothing to do with the OP... these are systemic problems that began at least 100 years ago.

2. Maybe Trump is helping, maybe he's hurting... but he's only been in office 2 years, and it's simply irrational to make him the FOCAL POINT, and the CAUSE, of problems that have been underway for over a century.

3. It's also irrational to accuse me of things I never said, and accuse me of defending someone I never defended - I very clearly did nothing more than address the issues you raised and showed they have nothing to do with this OP. Furthermore, there's no reason to be all upset with me, because I never kicked your dog, or ate your cookies, or made it rain, or did whatever it is you're so upset about.

4. If I ever meet you in person, I WILL EAT YOUR COOKIES, so then we'll finally have something FACTUAL to discuss, instead of all these imaginary offenses.


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And you give yourself way too much credit because I don't think about YOU at all... just responding to a post...

Mmm... I guess I could suggest that your need to make that statement kind of refutes the statement.



But since this is turning really weird, I'll just move on.





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What do you mean by " We need to determine.." That is all in God's hands to judge. I believe that we all have a personal relationship with God. (I know that I do.) I do agree that "going to church" does'nt automatically make you a Christian. I can usually determine whether a person is Christian or not by the way they conduct themselves in everyday life.