Thank you

First of all let me just say thank you. Thanks to the site owner, for creating and maintaining this platform. Thanks to all the ppl who partake and respond here. I have seen a lot of really neat people in this online community.


I have over posted random ramblings in the BDF, the SDF and in the blogs. I am never sure where the best place it is to get conversations going. I think part of my problem is I go on to much like this, lol.


Anyway, thanks for being patient with me as I come to learn, play, and communicate with written fellowship.


I just started Exodus and was wondering if you have any tips on what I should be thinking about and looking for as I set forth on this journey?


I have another question. I believe God loves the whole world and that He gave us Yesua, His son, so that we all might have the opportunity to be saved. I believe He designed us with choice. I am not really a believer in predestination but now I seek to know what do do with Romans 8…


For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
Romans 8:29‭-‬30 NASB


If it just said predestined, without having said foreknew also, I could easily say, ok He is outside of time so He knows who will choose Him. However, it says He foreknew AND predestined. So now I'm wondering do we even have freewill? I think about how he operated in the OT, how He definitely orchestrated their lives, and He doesn't change. Hmmmm? I know this topic has been beaten up and pondered, but sometimes, I think somewhere this is an answer that makes sense so that all the scriptures line up, because it says clearly that whosoever believes, and calls on the name... and many other verses that seem to contradict the predestined. I know the confusion is in my understanding not in Him. I know He is a God of order.


Well if you would give me a tip about studying Exodus or about the other, I'd appreciate it.


Thank you all. Love, in Christ, and God Bless you and yours.

He predestined those who would choose to obey Him, He just happened to know ahead of time who would make that choice. You can't make a choice without freewill. It's God's whole purpose of creating humans and earth. He had angels who obeyed Him, and if they sinned once they would spiritually die forever- which is why He created us on the earth instead of in heaven because if you look upon God with sin you die forever. He wants those few who will love Him of their own freewill no matter what. It's the struggle, the effort to do what's right that shows that we love Him, despite gentle and super harsh persecutions and trials.

"If you love Me you will obey what I command."

First of all let me just say thank you. Thanks to the site owner, for creating and maintaining this platform. Thanks to all the ppl who partake and respond here. I have seen a lot of really neat people in this online community.


I have over posted random ramblings in the BDF, the SDF and in the blogs. I am never sure where the best place it is to get conversations going. I think part of my problem is I go on to much like this, lol.


Anyway, thanks for being patient with me as I come to learn, play, and communicate with written fellowship.


I just started Exodus and was wondering if you have any tips on what I should be thinking about and looking for as I set forth on this journey?


I have another question. I believe God loves the whole world and that He gave us Yesua, His son, so that we all might have the opportunity to be saved. I believe He designed us with choice. I am not really a believer in predestination but now I seek to know what do do with Romans 8…


For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
Romans 8:29‭-‬30 NASB


If it just said predestined, without having said foreknew also, I could easily say, ok He is outside of time so He knows who will choose Him. However, it says He foreknew AND predestined. So now I'm wondering do we even have freewill? I think about how he operated in the OT, how He definitely orchestrated their lives, and He doesn't change. Hmmmm? I know this topic has been beaten up and pondered, but sometimes, I think somewhere this is an answer that makes sense so that all the scriptures line up, because it says clearly that whosoever believes, and calls on the name... and many other verses that seem to contradict the predestined. I know the confusion is in my understanding not in Him. I know He is a God of order.


Well if you would give me a tip about studying Exodus or about the other, I'd appreciate it.


Thank you all. Love, in Christ, and God Bless you and yours.

He predestined those who would choose to obey Him, He just happened to know ahead of time who would make that choice. You can't make a choice without freewill. It's God's whole purpose of creating humans and earth. He had angels who obeyed Him, and if they sinned once they would spiritually die forever- which is why He created us on the earth instead of in heaven because if you look upon God with sin you die forever. He wants those few who will love Him of their own freewill no matter what. It's the struggle, the effort to do what's right that shows that we love Him, despite gentle and super harsh persecutions and trials.

"If you love Me you will obey what I command."

Everything is predestined/predetermined, whole the universe.

This does not take away our choices or our responsibility, because the predestination does not force us. Our choices are not random and blind, though, they are based on causes and on our inclinations, therefore the outcome is always certain.

God did give us a free will to choose how we want to live our lives here on earth, but our eternal salvation was given by God's grace, without the help, or decision to accept him. God is all powerful and says he will accomplish all of his will, and none can stay his hand (Dan 4:35). God does according to the good pleasure of his will (Eph 1:5).

That makes abundant sense, thank you so very much!!!

How do you define the free will in humans?

There are many scriptures in the bible where God tells us to make choices pertaining to our lives here on earth, which indicates, to me, that he has given us the choice to make for ourselves, hence, free will.

Concerning your study of Exodus, read Exodus straight through with pen and paper at hand. Record anything of interest to you. Especially those things that seem to go against what you may have believed.

I have always said, don't be afraid to believe what the Bible says. And, don't be afraid to voice it before non-believers when they try and use it against you. In other words, they will use David's adultry and murder against you. They will use God's killing all of those innocents in the flood of Noah against you. They will use God's killing of the Canaanites to give the land to Israel against you. They will use eternal damnation of those not saved who are cast in the lake of fire against you.

Concerning predestination or election, you cannot get around it. It is taught in the Scripture. 'Whosoever' is also taught. Both are true.

Quantrill

For a number of reasons, I prefer the term "self will" over "free will." Many arguments could be made against the free will option, since we are constrained by many forces, including the physicality of the universe, its laws, and our own biological parameters in being human. Self will, however, is very clearly presented in Scriptures, starting with Adam and Eve deciding for themselves that it would be preferable to follow their own way rather than God's way. That is just a start Hello, CharliRenee!

The "whosoever" is "whosoever will" and if the whosoever will is pertaining to spiritual matters, the natural man, void of the Spirit, will not be one of those who will respond to the whosoever will because he cannot discern spiritual things. (1 Cor 2:14).

What do you mean 'void of the Spirit'? The natural man has a spirit. It is dead, or separated from God, but he still has a spirit. So what do you mean?

Quantrill

Yes, the natural man has the spirit of man, but he does not have the Holy Spirit of God. I guess me putting a capital letter of "S" was not good enough, so, I am sorry that I did not include Holy with it.

No, I understood by the capital 'S' what you meant. But you said the natural man is void of the Spirit. OK. How does any natural man receive the Spirit?

Quantrill

I have another question. I believe God loves the whole world and that He gave us Yesua, His son, so that we all might have the opportunity to be saved. I believe He designed us with choice. I am not really a believer in predestination but now I seek to know what do do with Romans 8…


For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.
Romans 8:29‭-‬30 NASB

It is not really that complicated. Just note carefully what is ACTUALLY STATED, not what Calvinists IMAGINE.

...predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son...

Now does this say "predestined to be saved from Hell" or "predestined to be CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF HIS SON"?

So what exactly does that mean? Since all human beings are born in the image of fallen Adam (with a sin nature and a tendency to sin) God wants to TOTALLY TRANSFORM His children so that they no longer resemble Adam, but they perfectly resemble Christ -- "the image or resemblance of His Son" -- who is "holy, harmless, undefiled, and separate from sinners".

Therefore sinners are justified by grace, sanctified by the Holy Spirit, and perfected and glorified by Christ at the Resurrection/Rapture. Which means that predestination is NOT for salvation (as falsely taught) but for perfection and glorification.

I think Eph 2 explains it, especially verse 5.

Predestination is God predetermining that Christ would pay the adoption price for those he choose to become his adopted children that will live with him in heaven.

It is not really that complicated. Just note carefully what is ACTUALLY STATED, not what Calvinists IMAGINE.

...predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son...

Now does this say "predestined to be saved from Hell" or "predestined to be CONFORMED TO THE IMAGE OF HIS SON"?

So what exactly does that mean? Since all human beings are born in the image of fallen Adam (with a sin nature and a tendency to sin) God wants to TOTALLY TRANSFORM His children so that they no longer resemble Adam, but they perfectly resemble Christ -- "the image or resemblance of His Son" -- who is "holy, harmless, undefiled, and separate from sinners".

Therefore sinners are justified by grace, sanctified by the Holy Spirit, and perfected and glorified by Christ at the Resurrection/Rapture. Which means that predestination is NOT for salvation (as falsely taught) but for perfection and glorification.