Please give me your input!?

I will be happy to explain the revelance of the verses I presentd. Those verses are based on what you said here:

G-d always existed...Christ did not.
G-d created all...Christ did not.
Christ was born of an earthly virgin mother......G-d was not.
Christ gave His life on the cross to save all humanity...G-d did not.
Christ arose from the dead....G-d did not.
Christ sent us the HS as The Comforter...G-d did not.
Christ ascended into Heaven...G-d did not.
G-d knows the date of Christs' 2nd advent....... Christ does not.

In other words, the verses clearly demonstrate that Jesus Christ is the creator which also means He preexisted His incarnation. In other words, He is God Almighty. What you don't understand is that God became a man and as a man was a 100% contingent human being depending wholly on His Father.

Look at Philippians 2:5-6. "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, vs6, who, ALTHOUGH He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, (That word although means "in spite of the fact) In other words despite the fact that He was God and is God He lowered Himself from that was already His when He was God and went from one form of being God He took another form of that of men. Vs7, but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant/man, being made in the likeness of men."

So when you say things like, "Jesus can't be God because He did not know the day or hour of His own return," it is because He is functiong a 100% human being. And yes, Jesus Christ did save all humanity on that cross but it does not mean that as God that God died. Acts 20:28, "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the CHURCH OF GOD WHICH HE PURCHASED WITH HIS OWN BLOOD."

This is what your not understaning so of course you would ask the questions you brought up. Does this make sense preston? Any questions you may have I will be happy to answer.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

the Father is the source of all creation. the text doesnt say Father and Son co created equally, it says the Father created, through the Son. i never got why people read "through" to mean "co equal" creator.

you say no as if he is incorrect yet repeat what he just said??

he is not misreading, thats what Jesus said:

Mark 13:32
“But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

Well jaybird Isaiah 44:24 says, "Thus says the Lord, your Redemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, I, the Lord, am the maker of ALL things, Stretching out the heavens ALL BY MYSELF, amd spreading out the earth ALL ALONE."

Since this is true how come John 1:3 says, "All things came into being by/through Him, and apart from Him, (apart means without Him) NOTHING came into being that has come into being." Or how about Colossians 1:16, "For by/through Him ALL things were created, , in the heavens, and on earth, VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE, whether thrones of dominions or rulers or authorties--ALL THINGS HAVE BEEN CREATED BY HIM AND FOR HIM."

And let's not forget the next verse, "And He is before all things, and in HIm all things hold together." So jaybird, since Isaiah 44:24 says God created all things by Himself and all alone how is it that Jesus Christ is also credited with creation? Why does God need a "helper" since He created all alone? Please, please, help me understand this? And btw, what does it mean that al this creation stuff was "through" Him/Jesus Christ? Do you even know what the word "through" means? Look it up and maybe you will get enlightened, but I doubt it.

IN GOD THE SON,
bluto

Isaiah 45 18-19

18
For thus says the Lord,
who created the heavens
(he is God!),
who formed the earth and made it
(he established it;
he did not create it empty,
he formed it to be inhabited!):
“I am the Lord, and there is no other.
19
I did not speak in secret,
in a land of darkness;
I did not say to the offspring of Jacob,
‘Seek me in vain.’
I the Lord speak the truth;
I declare what is right.

"I" refers to how many?
"He" refers to how many?

i dont see a "we" or a "they" anywhere.

I stated and demonstrated that it was by the Father's will that all things are created. Yet, the Agency to carry out that will, was the Eternal Son.

Genesis 1:

"God created" (elohiym, true plural 3 or more)

"God said ..." (This is the Person/Being of the Father speaking)

"God made ..." (This is the Person/Being of the Son agreeing with the will of the Father and obeying His Father's commanmdment, Exodus 20:12, see Proverbs 8:22-36; John 1:1-3; 1 John 1:1-3; 2 Corinthians 4:6; Epesians 3:9; Colossian 1:15-19; Hebrews 1:3, etc)

Thus "the Word (the Person.Being of the Son) was with God (the Person/Being of the Father") and "the Word was God", "in the beginning" (Genesis 1; John 1, etc)

"God saw ..." & "moved" (This is the Person/Being of the Holy Spirit as witness and power)

I even colour coded it for all in the previous response.

Read again.


See previous references, again: Proverbs 8:22-36; John 1:1-3; 1 John 1:1-3; 2 Corinthians 4:6; Epesians 3:9; Colossian 1:15-19; Hebrews 1:3


It is written:


Jesus sits in the Eternal Throne of Deity, equal, alongside (at the right hand of) the Father.

You misunderstand the word "through", and which the Bible (KJB) actually says "by".

All things (which are created) were made "by" the Son. Thus excluding the Son from being a created thing.

It is because you misunderstand how the Bible defined "by" (though in your translation "through").

The Father (JEHOVAH, Ancient of Days) gave commandment, and the Son (JEHOVAH Immanuel; Jesus JEHOVAH) obeyed in love and created all things.

I did not repeat. He does not believe Jesus/Son to be God (Deity). I do, and so made the distinction clear in response. You misunderstood what was given in reply.

He and you are misreading, and do not understand the definition of the word "know". This was explained, and you missed it. Read it again:

Jesus knows (and knew) the time. He is one with the Father (John 10:30). The word means to make known. Jesus will not make known (neither angel, nor men) the Hour, for it is in the prerogative of the Father to do so, since it is in the context of the wedding.


Also, the phrase, "But of that day and hour knoweth [to make known to others, see 1 Corinthians 2:2 KJB - For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.; which is why Jesus could say "neither the Son" [Mark 13:32 KJB], as Jesus will not make it known, but leaves it to the Father to do] no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.", as stated by Jesus, does not say, that we will never know, and Jesus would not reveal it [though He knows it], since the Father Himself, has chosen, that after the close of probation, He will speak forth the time by His own voice, as that previous quotation reveals:


We can know the events in their order:


Voice of God the Father, announcing the hour after the probation of men has closed; Jeremiah 25:30; Joel 2:11, 3:16; Amos 1:2; Job 40:9; Psalms 18:13, 77:18, 104:7; 1 Samuel 2:10; 2 Samuel 22:14; Matthew 24:36; Mark 13:32; John 12:29; 2 Peter 1:17-18; Revelation 14:2; &c

The Son sure is God:


"the LORD" (JEHOVAH Immanuel, the Person/Being of the Son) standing on earth, who stood in front of Abraham and spake with him, called down brimstone and fire (like as the Person/Being of the Holy Ghost, for out God is a consuming Fire), from "the LORD" (the Person/Being of the Father, JEHOVAH Ancient of Days) out of heaven.

The Son sure is God:


I will even cite them from the NWT for the WTS, Jehovah Witnesses reading:


Hebrew OT:

Hebrew OT Translit.:


So-called LXX:

How many JEHOVAH are in those verses [4,6,7]?

JEHOVAH said, "... I ["JEHOVAH ... God", vs. 4,6; Person/Being of the Father] will save them by JEHOVAH their God [vs. 7; Person/Being of the Son], ..."

so the Father is not the source?




all things were made through the image, i agree with you on that, but none the less the Father is the source of creation.
your adding "equals" to John 10 when John 10 does not say that, it says Jesus is one with the Father, Jesus also says believers are one with Him (Son) do you also think believers are Jesus?

im not misunderstanding, the text does not say through or by, its Greek which can be translated as one or the other, none the less if Father and Son co created everything the text would have plainly said that, it does not. all other ancient text have no problem stating co creation such as Egyptian or Babylonian. why would our text say one thing but mean another. sorry but this is speculation.

they are one and the same yet Jesus teaches Father and Son are TWO witnesses. umm ok

i wouldnt call it misreading, i would call it letting the scripture speak for itself rather than forming the scripture to fit a doctrine

then why does the Isaiah scripture not say "they" rather than "He" they is how you would refer to Father and Son.

The Son sure is God:

You do not understand the multiple nature of the text, neither the at-one-ment of Elohiym, Genesis 1.

I never said that the Father and the Son were the same Person/Being, The Father and the Son are two Persons/Beings. You have to misrepresent what I said into unitariansism. The fault is yours.

"He" is not multiple. "they" would be multiple.

if we interpert scripture according to you we can take any word and change it to mean whatever ever we want.

The text does not say that Jesus does not know (knowledge). It says that Jesus will not make known the time. You misunderstand the definition and use of the word, and I even gave you (twice) the example of even how Paul used it.


Same exact word.

Jesus states that neither Himself (the Son), angels (like Gabriel, etc) or any among mankind (you, me or other) will 'make known' the day and hour, since it is the Father's prerogative to do so. I gave you those verses (at least twice now) :


The Father and the Son are one (John 10:30) in Purpose, not in Person/Being.

The Son knows the time. He will not make it known, but leaves it to the Father.

As stated, You do not understand the multiple nature of the text, neither the at-one-ment of Elohiym.

its the only way to make sense of your logic

The Son sure is God:

The Son (standing by Joshua the high priest), refers to the Father (in Heaven), and so also the Holy Ghost (present as witness).

you keep skipping the passage in question:
Mark 13:32
“But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

in order to make your opinion work you litrally have to change the bolded part of this scripture. your really willing to do that just to make this theory work??

i understand he means one. if i wanted readers to think it meant multible i would have used they. its not that hard

The Son sure is God: