Gay & Lesbian inclusivity in the Church
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When Jesus confronted the religious authorities of his day, this is what he said to them ‘But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. For you neither enter yourselves nor allow those who would enter to go in.’
Yet earlier in this passage we hear Jesus saying they should do what the Pharisees said. For the Pharisees were right in what they said. They certainly knew a sin when they saw one, yet Jesus heaped his 7 woes on them. Why?
Because identifying and calling out sin is easy and misses the entire point. No sin stops a man entering the kingdom of God. Telling people that gay sex is a sin makes you are Pharisee. Christ will condemn such people for blocking the door to gay people who might otherwise have come in. And what stops them? Being alienated. Feeling utterly rubbished and unfit. Making christianity sound like a prude’s tea party. Making christ a monster to them.
Jesus said ‘They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger.’ What is the role of the christian? To HELP! Not to condemn.
Of course, no one cannot remain a practicing homosexual and be a christian too and I am quite aware that Paul says that people who persist in sexual immorality should be expelled from the church. We cannot condone their behaviour, but everything hinges on our attitude. We should welcome everyone and teach them the gospel and let God deal with the homosexuality. He is better at it than we are. The church must teach the truth in love. If we do this we can expect homosexual converts. If we start with condemnation they won’t come into the church at all. We must bear with people and give them time.
Yet earlier in this passage we hear Jesus saying they should do what the Pharisees said. For the Pharisees were right in what they said. They certainly knew a sin when they saw one, yet Jesus heaped his 7 woes on them. Why?
Because identifying and calling out sin is easy and misses the entire point. No sin stops a man entering the kingdom of God. Telling people that gay sex is a sin makes you are Pharisee. Christ will condemn such people for blocking the door to gay people who might otherwise have come in. And what stops them? Being alienated. Feeling utterly rubbished and unfit. Making christianity sound like a prude’s tea party. Making christ a monster to them.
Jesus said ‘They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger.’ What is the role of the christian? To HELP! Not to condemn.
Of course, no one cannot remain a practicing homosexual and be a christian too and I am quite aware that Paul says that people who persist in sexual immorality should be expelled from the church. We cannot condone their behaviour, but everything hinges on our attitude. We should welcome everyone and teach them the gospel and let God deal with the homosexuality. He is better at it than we are. The church must teach the truth in love. If we do this we can expect homosexual converts. If we start with condemnation they won’t come into the church at all. We must bear with people and give them time.
Y'all better be prepared to kick a whole lot of people out, if you take that scripture to mean not to even allow them to attend church and listen to the word of God. Now I'm not talking about allowing them to get up and preach/teach or anything like that but what is the harm of them attending Church and listening to the true word of God.
Because Paul wasn't just talking about gays there. He says not even a covetous person. And still that is only to the one's that are called a brother or sister. Not a sinner just attending church to hear the word of God.
1Corinthians 5
9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
Because Paul wasn't just talking about gays there. He says not even a covetous person. And still that is only to the one's that are called a brother or sister. Not a sinner just attending church to hear the word of God.
1Corinthians 5
9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.
I guess, I might be confused about what Church is for. I didn't know it was supposed to be only for the whole or saved to gather to gather.
I guess, if we go out an witness to others we should only invite the saved to attend church to hear the word of God, and turn all the sinners away.
I guess, if we go out an witness to others we should only invite the saved to attend church to hear the word of God, and turn all the sinners away.
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I think it is amazing how so many posters conveniently overlook the word "openly" in the OP.
If a homosexual enters into a Bible-believing congregation and takes a seat . . . unless he stands up in the crowd and yells, "Hey! I am openly engaging in sexual relations with members of my own gender" he is just as welcome as the next person to come in and here the message.
Other than that he is just another sinner in need of the Gospel.
Additionally, he could even seek membership in the church on a profession of faith . . . and since no one is wearing a pink H on their forehead, no one knows what his proclivities are, he could join. However, if it is discovered later on that he is a flamer . . . he'll be voted out of membership.
For one thing, he lied about his status as a Christian.
If a homosexual enters into a Bible-believing congregation and takes a seat . . . unless he stands up in the crowd and yells, "Hey! I am openly engaging in sexual relations with members of my own gender" he is just as welcome as the next person to come in and here the message.
Other than that he is just another sinner in need of the Gospel.
Additionally, he could even seek membership in the church on a profession of faith . . . and since no one is wearing a pink H on their forehead, no one knows what his proclivities are, he could join. However, if it is discovered later on that he is a flamer . . . he'll be voted out of membership.
For one thing, he lied about his status as a Christian.
I heard someone say something like God does the drawing and they can't come be saved unless he draws them and that is definetly true. But he also uses preachers and witnesses for this.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word.
Romans 10 :14
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
So I guess, send all the preachers out to the street then, and bar the church doors to any sinners...that may be drawn by God and want to hear the word of the Lord.
And I guess, what's left in the church... which probably wont be many can all put on their white robes and crowns and prance around.
Judgment begins with the Church folks not the sinner...just saying.
Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word.
Romans 10 :14
How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
So I guess, send all the preachers out to the street then, and bar the church doors to any sinners...that may be drawn by God and want to hear the word of the Lord.
And I guess, what's left in the church... which probably wont be many can all put on their white robes and crowns and prance around.
Judgment begins with the Church folks not the sinner...just saying.
Absolutely! If the lifestyle is known and open and they call themselves a brother in Christ, then yes, the fornicator, the idolater, the drunkard, the railer and extortioner should be put out. I would add, a fellow brother or sister in Christ is not to have any fellowship with such a one.
Judgment begins with the church, purging out the old leaven that can spread throughout the assembly. God will judge those outside the church.
Judgment begins with the church, purging out the old leaven that can spread throughout the assembly. God will judge those outside the church.
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Before you answer that question--Ask this: Do the fornicators and covetous wear their lifestyles on their sleeves the way the gays do? If they do, it should be treated in the same way.
OOOH that Porsche is fine. Wish I had one like dat dude does..
Touchy feely grabby kissy PDA in public..
Now THAT is "wearing your lifestyle on your sleeve.. lol
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Before you answer that question--Ask this: Do the fornicators and covetous wear their lifestyles on their sleeves the way the gays do? If they do, it should be treated in the same way.
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