Not By Works

Hi Endoscopy, simple answer, many bible students believe that Cain's offering is the works of his hands and not the blood sacrifice that God requires for the forgiveness of sin's. Able's offering was by grace through faith but Cain's offering was by works not grace. Dcon said he will be gone for a couple of days, if my answer is insufficient he will set things straight.

Genesis4:4-5
4b) The Lord looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5) but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

Hebrews11:4
4) By faith Abel offered to God a more acceptable sacrifice than Cain, through which he was commended as righteous, God commending him by accepting his gifts. And through his faith, though he died, he still speaks.

Hebrews9:22
22) According to the Law, in fact, nearly everything must be purified with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness.

You shall henceforth be called Elmer Fudd

Would Cain and Abel have known the difference between the blood sacrifice for forgiveness and works for forgiveness?

We know in genesis that God said about crushing the head of the one who bruised his heel.

Would Adam & Eve knew what that it meant?

What do you think?

Does that make me a millionaire that owns a mansion and a yacht? hahah

For Abel to offer a lamb without blemish or spot and shed blood he would have had to have known....NOT TO MENTION that he would have known the story of GOD SHEDDING BLOOD anf making skins to cover Adam and Eve's shame.

Again for the sake of new readers the following must be rejected or denied to teach a salvation that can be lost like a dime in the park...

The gifts if God are irrevocable
The seal of God can be broken
We are saved to the uttermost
We are kept by the power of God
Eternal life does not mean eternal life
Everlasting life means temporary life
Born of incorruptable seed
Justified means guilty
LOSE NOTHING means tossed away
Will not forsake you means forsaken
Chastisment means loss if salvation
In the Father's hand means yanked out of
In the Son's hand means yanked out of
I will lose nothing means something is lost
I will nevet leave thee means we have been left

and on and on and on.......if the above are chunked aside and or do not mean what they mean NO ONE IS SAVED or will be saved.....

There is not a just man upon the esrth that does good and sins not!

All of scripture is given by God. Are you saying the words of Jesus to look at the works (fruit) to see what a person is should be ignored. Remember he was talking about wolves in sheep's clothing. In other words a secular person masquerading as a Christian. Today fake ministers have taken over denominations. Gary North wrote the book Crossed Fingers documenting the take over of Presbyterian USA in 1932 by secular ministers in order to have access to the church funds. The last true minister in control of some church funds, a Reverend Mechan, was defrocked to remove him from the mission money. These are the wolves in sheep's clothing we are to look to their fruits (works). As Jesus said you will know them by their fruits. As I stated before at a special invitation evening service with refreshments being served a man from a Lutheran church heard the gospel message for the first time. That man testified to the fruits of the minister of that church. Thus proving he was a wolf in sheep's clothing. The fruit of a secular minister is never preaching the gospel message. By their fruits you shall know them. I stand by that statement of Jesus. The fruit of a Christian minister is always preaching the gospel. The fruit of a secular minister is never preaching the gospel message.

[QUOT3E="calibob, post: 3714250, member: 270740"]That's where a part of the problem lay. Many OSAS people would say people who would do as you have described weren't really saved at all aren't circumcised in the heart or the Holy Spirit wouldn't allow them to do as you say. Kneeling at a cross or an alter and just saying the sinners prayer doesn't save anyone. If it doesn't come from the heart it's dung.

You can have all of the above, but John says:

John 15:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
15 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

Notice Jesus says "EVERY BRANCH IN ME" will be taken away if they do not produce fruit. What this means is you can claim your saved and trust and have faith all you want, but if all that power does not produce fruit, you will not be with Jesus in EL. Sorry.

All scripture is indeed given by God which is why He cannot be confused with what His gospel message is supposed to be.

You are referring to Matthew 7:16? Is the interpretation you have of it consistent with the immediate context? The context is of false teachers who are likened to bad trees. What is the fruit of a teacher? His teachings. False prophets are clearly identified as unbelievers, those who are not saved. Christ was not asserting a works-based salvation "gospel", or else why did the apostle John bother recording Christ's words that clearly contradict the idea you are asserting to be true?

This secular minister is an example of what all too often happens in a church, but it has nothing to do with any idea of a saint gaining or losing their salvation based on any works.

TT was right

Not sure what you are referencing mate

"Cainology" is a dcontroversalism label not mine.

Nope but one day you will have a mansion in heaven or at least live in one.

If before then you become a millionaire, throw some my way so I can upgrade from my garden shed.

Prolly something to do with "Cainology"

Hahahhaah thanks....missed your sword and whitticism hahah You know...I came up with another word as well....Apostatization <-- a buddy who taught English in college in Peroria Illinois was going to submit it for me haha maybe Cainology or Cainologist should be submitted to accurately describe false teachers that peddle a vanilla cafe false blend of faith and works for salvation...haha

Would Cain and Abel have known the difference between the blood sacrifice for forgiveness and works for forgiveness?

We know in genesis that God said about crushing the head of the one who bruised his heel.

Would Adam & Eve knew what that it meant?

What do you think?

Brother a few points to ponder....

a. You don't know me nor the depth of what I know or don't know

b. Who cares what Zola has to say...I have seen him before and he is not always right

c. You have seen me post enough to know that I do not just whip belief systems out of a hat and that I am not unlearned in the scriptures

d. Your replies, as well as another poster, have been demeaning, baseless and dismissive of the above as well as of the fact that I am not some 18 year old seminary student....I have 4 years of seminary, 32 years of study, have filled in, preached revivals, taught at upwards of 30 churches, been on TV, radio, internet, written a 212 page book on the subject, and have without embellishment proclaimed to truth to millions....so please....do not treat me like I just came out of sunday school at age 7.....when by the way, I was doing 12th grade algebra, making solor models and studying atoms..............

Yeah I know....the above does not equate to being right and for the record...I am more than willing to admit error and or mold my belief when a greater understanding has come along or I am proven to be in error.

For the last time....I was raised believing in the imminent return, I believed it, defended it dogmatically and stood on it UNTIL I actually stsrted studying the bibke, being honest with the verbiage, word definitions, context etc......and in my VIEW the bible does not teach the imminent return of Christ...there are NUMEROUS EVENTS THAT MUST OCCUR FIRST....when those EVENTS HAVE TAKEN PLACE THEN AND ONLY THEN CAN WE LOOK up for his return!

Take it or leave it...no matter...I still consider you a saved brother in Christ!

Hahahhaah thanks....missed your sword and whitticism hahah You know...I came up with another word as well....Apostatization <-- a buddy who taught English in college in Peroria Illinois was going to submit it for me haha maybe Cainology or Cainologist should be submitted to accurately describe false teachers that peddle a vanilla cafe false blend of faith and works for salvation...haha

The thing about Jesus is that he was God, but humbled himself to become our servant. He was an incredibly powerful man, but the most humble of men. Be ye thererfore like him, or you will in no wise have EL.

Peoria . . . I spent a week there one day.