A "Personal Relationship" with God is not biblical
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Man does this hit it and miss it....
I agree 100% "The purpose of coming to Christ is not happiness, joy, all the feel good emotions we love. It is for the forgiveness and atonement for sin.".... But Messiah is Joy and G-d (Messiah) is love.... so when we get Him we get those too. Every human should have a fear of G-d, He can and does either save the body nd soul or destroys them both. Even the NT G-d, Messiah, Jesus.... what ever you prefer calling Him will do this at the Great White Throne Judgement. And weather people like it or not He punishes us for our sins in the now, even the saved, look at Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5).
To be honest with you I do not believe anyone can be saved without the fear of G-d and therefore humbling themselves before G-d and admitting they are a sinner in need of a Savior.
However, the baby can not be thrown out with the bathwater...
He is also, in addition to:
El Roi: The G-d who sees me
Elohim: Creator(my creator)
Yahweh Yireh: G-d Provider
Yahweh Ropheka: G-d who heals
Yahweh Nissi: My banner
Yahweh Shalom: My Peace
Yahweh Tsuri: My Rock
Yahweh Tesbaoth: Lord of Host
El Olam: Eternal G-d
My G-d who sees me knows me on a very personal level... He "sees" me... He knows me inside and out He created me. He provides for me on every level, physically, mentally and emotionally. He has head me on every level too. When I go into battle, weather, spiritual or with a person/group His banner is over me. He is my peace because He is Peace. He is my Rock I run into and I am saved!!!! (you can bank on that)!!! He sends His angles to take charge over me and all that is mine. He is Alpha and Omega, my Alpha and Omega! And because He is ALL OF THIS and I only love and fear Him He is all of this to me and sooooo much more because I have a personal relationship with Him.
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Yeah, well, everyone does that to some extent. But I suppose there is a benefit to never having experienced love in any other way, because I'm not going to let my emotions cloud my judgment. People also use this "relationship" theology to coerce people into all kinds of abuse. If I ever found out that someone I knew, or even someone I loved, was doing that, and that there was evidence for it, I'm going to do the responsible thing and call the police.
The church is not above reproach and God couldn't care less about "reputations." He cares about people. And when you choose your emotions over evidence, you are giving into foolishness and, in some cases, wickedness. Like I said, if I knew you, loved you, even if you were a family man, when you abuse in God's name, it may be hard, but I will call the cops on you.
It's also this "relationship" theology that makes us deny ultimately that everyone has a sin nature. It's sad that church people can be some of the most naive people, and that churches have become havens for abusers. The bible says that there are people in this world who do not have a conscience and who give themselves over to Satan. There are people who lie and steal and kill and destroy without remorse.
In fact, Paul writes that we are to turn unrepentant sinners over to Satan. God takes sin very seriously, and he is furious when people abuse in his name. Woe to those who have done that and then will have to answer for it on Judgment Day.
The church is not above reproach and God couldn't care less about "reputations." He cares about people. And when you choose your emotions over evidence, you are giving into foolishness and, in some cases, wickedness. Like I said, if I knew you, loved you, even if you were a family man, when you abuse in God's name, it may be hard, but I will call the cops on you.
It's also this "relationship" theology that makes us deny ultimately that everyone has a sin nature. It's sad that church people can be some of the most naive people, and that churches have become havens for abusers. The bible says that there are people in this world who do not have a conscience and who give themselves over to Satan. There are people who lie and steal and kill and destroy without remorse.
In fact, Paul writes that we are to turn unrepentant sinners over to Satan. God takes sin very seriously, and he is furious when people abuse in his name. Woe to those who have done that and then will have to answer for it on Judgment Day.
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15When they had finished eating, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon son of John, do you agape (unconditional) love me more than these?”
“Yes, Lord,” he said, “you know that I Philia (brotherly) love you.”
16Again Jesus said, “Simon son of John, do you agape (unconditional) love me?”
He answered, “Yes, Lord, you know that I Philia (brotherly) love you.”
17The third time he said to him, “Simon son of John, do you agape (unconditional) love me?”
If Jesus wants unconditional love he wants at least a personal relationship.
7“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
You are looking from the outside. God is everywhere. In your dreams you talk to him, he talks to you. He speaks to your mind. Do you think you are always in control. It is of God or of Satan.
“Yes, Lord,” he said, “you know that I Philia (brotherly) love you.”
16Again Jesus said, “Simon son of John, do you agape (unconditional) love me?”
He answered, “Yes, Lord, you know that I Philia (brotherly) love you.”
17The third time he said to him, “Simon son of John, do you agape (unconditional) love me?”
If Jesus wants unconditional love he wants at least a personal relationship.
7“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8For everyone who asks receives; the one who seeks finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened.
You are looking from the outside. God is everywhere. In your dreams you talk to him, he talks to you. He speaks to your mind. Do you think you are always in control. It is of God or of Satan.
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Seriously, read this article.
https://www.christianitytoday.com/biblestudies/bible-answers/theology/trulyevil.html
https://www.christianitytoday.com/biblestudies/bible-answers/theology/trulyevil.html
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There is a very powerful error on earth today that tells us that those who accept Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior shall enter into the kingdom of Heaven.
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall. enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth. the will of my Father which is in heaven."
Mat 7:21
"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall. enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth. the will of my Father which is in heaven."
Mat 7:21
Let's see what Jesus says is the work we should DOETH and who DOETH the Will of the Father that results in Salvation:
John 6:
28 Then they said to Him, “What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?”
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “THIS IS THE WORK of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
John 6:
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will[f]by no means cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. 39 THIS IS THE WILL of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day. 40 AND THIS IS THE WILL of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day.”
BTW. It's those that have been born again as children of God, as a NEW creation, with a NEW heart, through receiving Jesus, after hearing, and believing the Gospel, that will enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
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Logic, huh? Heh, that is an interesting approach to God. Not that a relationship with God is illogical, but you're trying to define your relationship with God logically. Well, logically you must understand God's omnipresence, so when you say that God isn't with you, it is false. He says that He will never leave us nor forsake us. So, right now, this moment, God is with you. You can't hide from God, and don't let that unsettle you. Why? He does love you, He isn't out to get you, and yes, He does want a relationship with you. When I say relationship I mean fellowship, actually fellowship. Not a one way conversation.
God's word describes Him as your heavenly Father. So in that respect you can see that He is your provider and protector. He wishes to lead you, teach you, nurture you, and bless you. Comfort you. God is not far. As for your needs, take Him at His word. Believe. You say that God can't meet your needs, yet who is it that created the people, food, and water you need? Who opens doors and closes them (of opportunity and danger/risk)? God looks out for us.
Your idea of a relationship is do, work, be productive, and so on, but understand that God loved you before you were even born. He knew you, in His omniscience, before the day you were born. He knows you, through and through. Jesus died for you, and loves you. Emphasis on you. Do not think that your actions are the basis for His love, but rather His love is the basis for your actions. We love God because He loves us (give and you shall receive). Any servitude we do, is out of gratitude and what an honor it is to be a part of His plan. Think, that He would choose you to fulfill His purposes.
God loves you, let that sink in. Your love will simply follow as result of the revelation you have of His love.
God's word describes Him as your heavenly Father. So in that respect you can see that He is your provider and protector. He wishes to lead you, teach you, nurture you, and bless you. Comfort you. God is not far. As for your needs, take Him at His word. Believe. You say that God can't meet your needs, yet who is it that created the people, food, and water you need? Who opens doors and closes them (of opportunity and danger/risk)? God looks out for us.
Your idea of a relationship is do, work, be productive, and so on, but understand that God loved you before you were even born. He knew you, in His omniscience, before the day you were born. He knows you, through and through. Jesus died for you, and loves you. Emphasis on you. Do not think that your actions are the basis for His love, but rather His love is the basis for your actions. We love God because He loves us (give and you shall receive). Any servitude we do, is out of gratitude and what an honor it is to be a part of His plan. Think, that He would choose you to fulfill His purposes.
God loves you, let that sink in. Your love will simply follow as result of the revelation you have of His love.
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Not sure if any here would want to know except possibly, the OPr lacked that deeper excavation many of us are fed from. But I have to say, standing back, , when we set all our cares “upon Him”, what then prevents our capability to say within, this struggle or that weakness isn’t being transformed into the image of Christ within?
One could even contemplate expanding upon that with the power to convert others is ineffective in my life. I’m not saying that is what the OPr is going through, but isn’t every last weakness also brought into this relationship with Him?, ,
For we do not have a high priest who cannot
sympathize with our weaknesses, but One
who has been tempted in all things
as we are, yet without sin.
(Hebrews 4:15)
One could even contemplate expanding upon that with the power to convert others is ineffective in my life. I’m not saying that is what the OPr is going through, but isn’t every last weakness also brought into this relationship with Him?, ,
For we do not have a high priest who cannot
sympathize with our weaknesses, but One
who has been tempted in all things
as we are, yet without sin.
(Hebrews 4:15)
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I posted a gang of scripture verses back a page or two which were handily ignored by the op
God forbid we should actually see what scripture states...this is the age of opinions and everybody has them
in another thread, same thing.
yet this is a Christian forum
as far as what brought on the op, it is personal because the Bible does not back it up at all
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I agree with much of what you say, but I don't think the idea of "personal" is the problem. The problem is when a person tries to have as much say or more say in a relationship with the Person. John 15:14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoever I command you. I have only one Friend that I allow to dictate to me the terms of our personal relationship. That's because He's God. My earthly friends aren't.
The Father is the 1st Person of the Trinity, the Son is the 2nd Person, and the Holy Spirit is the 3rd Person. I'm a person. Our relationship is "personal", not impersonal.
This Person loved my very person (and every other person) when I was His enemy, so that He died for my sins. Satan hates my very person (and every other person). Without a personal relationship with Jesus (which is based 100% on His terms) a person will go to hell when they die.
The Father is the 1st Person of the Trinity, the Son is the 2nd Person, and the Holy Spirit is the 3rd Person. I'm a person. Our relationship is "personal", not impersonal.
This Person loved my very person (and every other person) when I was His enemy, so that He died for my sins. Satan hates my very person (and every other person). Without a personal relationship with Jesus (which is based 100% on His terms) a person will go to hell when they die.
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Jesus Christ personally speaking/declaring His Love for us in these scriptures and many, many, more
is more than enough to bring me to my knees in wonder, and has created in me a profound desire to return
the love that He has placed inside of me back to Him and His, the ways and means to do this are beyond belief,
literally endless...
MATT. 11:28-29-30.
Come unto Me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and you shall find rest unto your souls.
For My yoke is easy, and my burden is Light.
JOB 28.28.
And unto man He said, Behold, the fear of The Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.
is more than enough to bring me to my knees in wonder, and has created in me a profound desire to return
the love that He has placed inside of me back to Him and His, the ways and means to do this are beyond belief,
literally endless...
MATT. 11:28-29-30.
Come unto Me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
Take My yoke upon you, and learn of Me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and you shall find rest unto your souls.
For My yoke is easy, and my burden is Light.
JOB 28.28.
And unto man He said, Behold, the fear of The Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.
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