Not By Works

YOU KNOW I every ONE of THOSE OF THE OPPOSITE VIEWPOINT has an OPINION about what OSAS actually MEANS and what We BELIEVE, and ALMOST EVERY ONE WITH AN OPINION IS TOTALLY WRONG. When are people going to learn to ASK US WHAT WE MEAN BY THAT PHRASE, instead of repeating the incredible LIES about our Beliefs.

YES I ABSOLUTELY BELIEVE in OSAS, but it IS TOTALLY BIBLICAL, and NOT LIKE MOST ANTI-OSAS think we MEAN BY IT.

Then you Endoscopy bring up CREEDS that were Written when most of the world was illiterate. And think we still believe those confused opinions. Do you NOT THINK we have GROWN SPIRITUALLY at all since we NOW have our OWN BIBLES, and not a Latin version, CHAINED to the Pulpit. It is Incredible what SOME OF YOU ERRONEOUSLY BELIEVE about OSAS Beliefs.

As Far as I am concerned the Armenian and Calvinist ARGUMENTS are DEAD and has been for the past 40 years. Get Over It. I think MOST CHRISTIANS BELIEVE the TRUTH LIES SOMEWHERE IN THE MIDDLE.

ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED, has NOTHING TO DO WITH lack of Obedience. It has to do with TAKING THESE VERSES LITERALLY:

John 10:27-28 (HCSB)
27 My sheep hear My voice, I know them [equals born again Believer], and they follow Me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish—ever! No one will snatch them out of My hand.

Philippians 1:6 (HCSB)
6 I am sure of this, that He who started a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 2:4-9 (HCSB)
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love that He had for us,
5 made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace!
6 Together with Christ Jesus He also raised us up and seated us in the heavens,
7 so that in the coming ages He might display the immeasurable riches of His grace through ⌊His⌋ kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
9 not from works, so that no one can boast.

John 6:47 (HCSB)
47 “I assure you: Anyone who believes [.Born Again.] has eternal life. [.It is not eternal if you can lose it.]

1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.


SO WE BELIEVE THE BIBLE LITERALLY, . . . . . so what do you believe?[/QUOTE]
You ignore the history of the creeds. They were written in the 200s to 500. Keep in mind the history of how things were back then. No printing presses then so Bibles were extremely rare and expensive. The word was spread by word of mouth and memorization of some documents or section of documents were used in place of the written words. This caused the creeds to be developed to spread the word of God. I have challenged some on this board to explain where any of these creeds were in error. They just say they ignore anything written by man. Their attitude ignores history of how Bibles were written. They were laboriously hand copied by scribes thus were rare and expensive. Also many of the common people were illiterate. So even if they somehow got one of the rare and extremely expensive Bibles they couldn't read it. At that time in history it was common for people to memorize important documents that were secular in nature. They did this with creeds and sections of the Bible. Using these is how the gospel was spread. Why do you and others ignore this part of history of how life was lived before printing presses and almost universal education of children in developed countries. Go look at how sections of the world are today in the very undeveloped areas. Poor illiterate scratching out a living with no schools, hospitals, and other things we take for granted living in North America. Even Mexico is head and shoulders above the way of life in these areas. Life was like that in the time of these creeds were written.

WHY DO YOU AND OTHERS IGNORE THE REALITY OF LIFE BACK THEN!![/QUOTE]
Aren't you the KISS man or is it somone else?

Many of those that were not looking for HIM to come Pre-Tribulation, very well could be a major portion of the Martyred TRIBULATION SAINTS. Do you not know that there will be Martyred Saints After the Calling Out of the Bride ? ? ?

I promised I would get back on SUBJECT:

Many People want to believe WE can lose our SALVATION, BUT NOT I.


Proverbs 8:36 (NKJV)
36 But he who sins against me wrongs his own soul; All those who hate me love death."

1 John 3:14 (NIV)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death.

1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
19 They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.


ARE NOT THOSE VERSES SAYING THE EXACT SAME THING, that they were NOT SAVED IN THE FIRST PLACE:

.

I agree about eschatology. There are a couple of sites that have 4 Biblical concepts of eschatology all in conflict with each other. Read them and became pan trib. LOL

Here is the scripture backing up OSAS. 3 translations. KJV, NIV and AMPC.

John 10 KJV
24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.
25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.
26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:
28 And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.
29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
30 I and my Father are one.
31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

John 10 NIV
24 The Jews who were there gathered around him, saying, “How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly.”
25 Jesus answered, “I did tell you, but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name testify about me, 26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”
31 Again his Jewish opponents picked up stones to stone him, 32 but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many good works from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?”

John 10 AMPC
24 So the Jews surrounded Him and began asking Him, How long are You going to keep us in doubt and suspense? If You are really the Christ (the Messiah), tell us so plainly and openly.
25 Jesus answered them, I have told you so, yet you do not believe Me [you do not trust Me and rely on Me]. The very works that I do by the power of My Father and in My Father’s name bear witness concerning Me [they are My credentials and evidence in support of Me].
26 But you do not believe and trust and rely on Me because you do not belong to My fold [you are no sheep of Mine].
27 The sheep that are My own hear and are listening to My voice; and I know them, and they follow Me.
28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never lose it or perish throughout the ages. [To all eternity they shall never by any means be destroyed.] And no one is able to snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, Who has given them to Me, is greater and mightier than all [else]; and no one is able to snatch [them] out of the Father’s hand.
30 I and the Father are One.
31 Again the Jews brought up stones to stone Him.
32 Jesus said to them, My Father has enabled Me to do many good deeds. [I have shown many acts of mercy in your presence.] For which of these do you mean to stone Me?

Naaa...just a Rabbit chase is all....fall coming and all...Rabbit season starts in October haha

I don't hate it and I use a Cambridge Black Letter wide margin Berkshire leather edition that cost me 185 in 1995.....but make no mistake....it is a translation, transliteration and even their own preface states clearly it was COMPARED to the English versions that came before it and a cursory read will reveal copied verbatim sections of the O.T.....

Worship the God of the version, not the version......and too be truthful and frank....there are more gramatically correct versions.....

With 71,945 posts I'm pretty sure there is discussion on how many angels can fit on the head of a needle somewhere.

You ignore the history of the creeds. They were written in the 200s to 500. Keep in mind the history of how things were back then. No printing presses then so Bibles were extremely rare and expensive. The word was spread by word of mouth and memorization of some documents or section of documents were used in place of the written words. This caused the creeds to be developed to spread the word of God. I have challenged some on this board to explain where any of these creeds were in error. They just say they ignore anything written by man. Their attitude ignores history of how Bibles were written. They were laboriously hand copied by scribes thus were rare and expensive. Also many of the common people were illiterate. So even if they somehow got one of the rare and extremely expensive Bibles they couldn't read it. At that time in history it was common for people to memorize important documents that were secular in nature. They did this with creeds and sections of the Bible. Using these is how the gospel was spread. Why do you and others ignore this part of history of how life was lived before printing presses and almost universal education of children in developed countries. Go look at how sections of the world are today in the very undeveloped areas. Poor illiterate scratching out a living with no schools, hospitals, and other things we take for granted living in North America. Even Mexico is head and shoulders above the way of life in these areas. Life was like that in the time of these creeds were written.

WHY DO YOU AND OTHERS IGNORE THE REALITY OF LIFE BACK THEN!![/QUOTE]
Aren't you the KISS man or is it somone else?[/QUOTE]
I saw nothing in your scripture references that disputed what the creeds say. I brought up the creeds because of the continual attack on them by some ignoring in many gospel preaching churches they are recited by the congregation in the preliminary part of the service. That is where I learned the Apostles Creed. In a RCA Church. The gospel message was brought into the sermon every time. So again where are the scriptures refuting any Creed as not conforming to the Bible. Other gospel preaching denominations use the other creeds. Refute them or shut up about them. Creeds are used to define what a Christian must believe and churches having the congregation recite them use it to reinforce the gospel message.

That is why my Bible is my smartphone. I have biblegateway.com on a web page in my browser. When the minister states the scripture I bring it up and read it there. I go between versions. Usually KJV, NIV, ESV and AMPC. My preference is for NIV and AMPC. Only go to ESV once in a while. Tried German but couldn't understand a word of it.

What are you talking about ? ? ?

These quotes on Posts are getting purely jumbled. I have found other quotes attributed to me, and the other way around.

Thanks for your answer VCO. I hope you drop by my "Who are the 24 Elders?" Thread and give your input.


I believe that those trumpets from judaism have something to do with it definately. It would match as the fulfillment of the feast of Trumpets, (the rapture).

Do you believe that only obedient christians go in the rapture? And the backslid ones are left here?

If Atlas can hold the world up I am sure that "one more angel" can fit on the head of a needle....!

I believe only those Christians that are 'sealed' by the Holy Spirit will go in the rapture . . . oh wait! They all are!

The Holy Spirit departs and we all go with Him. Of course, He is God - but His ministry reverts to what it was prior to the day of Pentecost when He came down to imbue believers.

This is all that we need. Wise men see evil coming and prepare for it. Good advice decon.

Yep....biblical....NOAH prepared for the destruction of the world.....think about that for a moment......

Psalm 62:1-12, "62:1, "My being finds rest in the Mighty One alone; From Him is my deliverance."62:2, "He alone is my rock and my deliverance, my strong tower; I am not greatly shaken."62:3, "How long would you shout at a man? – Murder! – Like a leaning wall, a tottering fence."62:4, "They plotted to topple him from his high position; They delight in lies; They bless with their mouth, But in their heart they curse. Selah."62:5, "My being, find rest in the Mighty One alone, Because my expectation is from Him."62:6, "He alone is my rock and my deliverance, my strong tower; I am not shaken."62:7, "My deliverance and my esteem depend on the Mighty One; The rock of my strength, my refuge is in the Mighty One."62:8, "Trust in Him at all times, you people; Pour out your heart before Him; the Mighty One is a refuge for us. Selah."62:9, "Sons of Aḏam are but a breath, Sons of men are a lie; If weighed in the scales, They are altogether lighter than breath."62:10, "Do not trust in oppression. And do not become vain in robbery; If riches increase, Do not set your heart on them."62:11, "the Mighty One has spoken once, Twice I have heard this: That strength belongs to the Mighty One."62:12, "And loving-commitment is Yours, O יהוה; For You reward each one according to his work."

Yep, and salvation is not a reward it is a gift that is irrevocable........!

[
NOT ALL:

Matthew 7:20-24 (HCSB)
20 So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord!’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ⌊only⌋ the one who does the will of My Father in heaven.
22 On that day many will say to Me, ‘Lord, Lord, didn’t we prophesy in Your name, drive out demons in Your name, and do many miracles in Your name?’
23 Then I will announce to them, ‘I never knew you! Depart from Me, you lawbreakers!’
24 “Therefore, everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them will be like a sensible man who built his house on the rock.

He is talking to those that have the truth in unrighteousness.

What do you think of a person who has the truth. Do you think that they knew God at least at one time? Do you think they were saved at one time? Do you think they had the truth and all that goes with knowing the truth and gave it up? Yes. OSAS is not a sound doctrine.

Those that are saved have already done the will of the Father (doesn't mean that there are not other things they will do to obey His will, but this is the main one) . . .

"And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day" (John 6:39-40).

Like Saul did, I'm afraid that you are kicking against the pricks.