A "Personal Relationship" with God is not biblical

This thread has nothing to do with any of my previous posts. This is just something that's been on my mind lately.

The idea of a "personal relationship" with God may be popular. But just because something is popular doesn't mean it's biblical. For one thing, the idea itself never appears in the bible. In fact, whether you like it or not, the bible says Christianity is a religion, a good religion. James 1:26

I think this idea has done serious damage to the modern church. It results in us turning God into a therapist and trying to mold him into our own image. A "relationship" with God is done on his terms. It doesn't matter whether or not you like that. I may not like the way God does certain things, but I'm not the creator of the universe.

But more than just the words, the idea behind them is wrong. Consider this: if a “personal relationship with Jesus” is the solution, what is the problem? Maybe the problem is that you are lonely, or your life is empty, you feel meaningless, unimportant, and insignificant, hopeless with no direction. The personal relationship with Jesus promises to fix these problems, to fill the hole in your life that only Jesus can fill, to give your life meaning and direction. These are all the promises being offered. And now, with this personal relationship with Jesus, there is two-way communication where God will talk directly to you. You will be filled and fulfilled. Your life will have meaning and direction, you will be transformed. And you will directly experience the presence and the power of God, all of this if we make a decision for Christ, if we surrender our life to Him, if we make Him the Lord of our life.

I think that this summarizes Christianity for most Americans. And some of this sounds good. You might have that angst grinding up against your own soul, I suspect we all do in one way or another. None of us know what tomorrow may bring. None of us see completely how our lives fit in to the big picture of the universe. All of us have times of loneliness. But if this is our biggest problem, then Jesus wouldn’t need to die; He could just come and hang out.

But Jesus is the Good Shepherd who lays down His life for the sheep, and this means that the problem is much bigger than we might think. Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, the Lamb who has been slain. Jesus is the One who hands Himself over to the shame of the cross, because our biggest problem is not our isolation. It is our sin running face-first into the holiness of God. God’s wrath is our real problem, because of our sin, and Jesus and His death and resurrection is our only possible hope.

To add to that, God is only my Lord and Savior, not my friend or anything like that.

The fact is, Jesus doesn’t make for a very good companion. He doesn’t talk back to you. He doesn’t laugh at your jokes. He doesn’t playfully hit you when you pretend to do something mean. He doesn’t show you something you’ve missed in the latest movie you saw, or make an insightful comment about the news. He doesn’t dance with you or sing for you or applaud when you play him a song on the violin. He doesn’t hug you or kiss you or hold your hand.

I think we can get carried away by the idea of God being our all. Yes, He is, but as God: not as friend, lover, or companion.

Even Adam, unfallen and enjoying complete communion with God, was lonely in the garden.

The modern hymn calls Jesus a "friend" and some may appeal to a verse in John where Jesus calls his disciples "friends". But the understanding of the word is decontextualized. People of the time of the Bible did not "get to know" each other as modern persons in the West do. A "friend" meant a person who looked out for your practical interests -- not someone you had beer and watched football with.

I would say that what is required of us is a patronal relationship with Jesus. The New Testament explains our relationship with God in terms of a client-patron relationship, one in which God, patron, is remote; and Jesus, as a broker, mediates between ourselves and God. Then we do have the indwelling Holy Spirit as a broker as well; but though the Spirit supplies us with mediation and perhaps power, there is nothing to show that the Spirit is some sort of intimate conversation partner.

And finally, since people of the ancient world seldom "got to know each other" personally (as is taken for granted in modern, Western society) there is no way that New Testament writers could have had an idea like a "personal relationship with Jesus" in mind in the first place -- not as we perceive it. The word "personal" is so broad in meaning that it could include a "patronal" relationship; but that is obviously not what most people have in mind when they use the word. They usually mean something like, God is approachable in the same way one of your sports buddies is. It is not the words that are so much the issue as the particulars of expression.

The purpose of coming to Christ is not happiness, joy, all the feel good emotions we love. It is for the forgiveness and atonement for sin.

do we really need to be sarcastic in replying ?
maybe this person is searching , who knows

The idea of a "personal relationship" with God may be popular. But just because something is popular doesn't mean it's biblical.

This thread has nothing to do with any of my previous posts. This is just something that's been on my mind lately.

The idea of a "personal relationship" with God may be popular. But just because something is popular doesn't mean it's biblical. For one thing, the idea itself never appears in the bible. In fact, whether you like it or not, the bible says Christianity is a religion, a good religion. James 1:26

I think this idea has done serious damage to the modern church. It results in us turning God into a therapist and trying to mold him into our own image. A "relationship" with God is done on his terms. It doesn't matter whether or not you like that. I may not like the way God does certain things, but I'm not the creator of the universe.

But more than just the words, the idea behind them is wrong. Consider this: if a “personal relationship with Jesus” is the solution, what is the problem? Maybe the problem is that you are lonely, or your life is empty, you feel meaningless, unimportant, and insignificant, hopeless with no direction. The personal relationship with Jesus promises to fix these problems, to fill the hole in your life that only Jesus can fill, to give your life meaning and direction. These are all the promises being offered. And now, with this personal relationship with Jesus, there is two-way communication where God will talk directly to you. You will be filled and fulfilled. Your life will have meaning and direction, you will be transformed. And you will directly experience the presence and the power of God, all of this if we make a decision for Christ, if we surrender our life to Him, if we make Him the Lord of our life.

I think that this summarizes Christianity for most Americans. And some of this sounds good. You might have that angst grinding up against your own soul, I suspect we all do in one way or another. None of us know what tomorrow may bring. None of us see completely how our lives fit in to the big picture of the universe. All of us have times of loneliness. But if this is our biggest problem, then Jesus wouldn’t need to die; He could just come and hang out.

But Jesus is the Good Shepherd who lays down His life for the sheep, and this means that the problem is much bigger than we might think. Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, the Lamb who has been slain. Jesus is the One who hands Himself over to the shame of the cross, because our biggest problem is not our isolation. It is our sin running face-first into the holiness of God. God’s wrath is our real problem, because of our sin, and Jesus and His death and resurrection is our only possible hope.

To add to that, God is only my Lord and Savior, not my friend or anything like that.

The fact is, Jesus doesn’t make for a very good companion. He doesn’t talk back to you. He doesn’t laugh at your jokes. He doesn’t playfully hit you when you pretend to do something mean. He doesn’t show you something you’ve missed in the latest movie you saw, or make an insightful comment about the news. He doesn’t dance with you or sing for you or applaud when you play him a song on the violin. He doesn’t hug you or kiss you or hold your hand.

I think we can get carried away by the idea of God being our all. Yes, He is, but as God: not as friend, lover, or companion.

Even Adam, unfallen and enjoying complete communion with God, was lonely in the garden.

The modern hymn calls Jesus a "friend" and some may appeal to a verse in John where Jesus calls his disciples "friends". But the understanding of the word is decontextualized. People of the time of the Bible did not "get to know" each other as modern persons in the West do. A "friend" meant a person who looked out for your practical interests -- not someone you had beer and watched football with.

I would say that what is required of us is a patronal relationship with Jesus. The New Testament explains our relationship with God in terms of a client-patron relationship, one in which God, patron, is remote; and Jesus, as a broker, mediates between ourselves and God. Then we do have the indwelling Holy Spirit as a broker as well; but though the Spirit supplies us with mediation and perhaps power, there is nothing to show that the Spirit is some sort of intimate conversation partner.

And finally, since people of the ancient world seldom "got to know each other" personally (as is taken for granted in modern, Western society) there is no way that New Testament writers could have had an idea like a "personal relationship with Jesus" in mind in the first place -- not as we perceive it. The word "personal" is so broad in meaning that it could include a "patronal" relationship; but that is obviously not what most people have in mind when they use the word. They usually mean something like, God is approachable in the same way one of your sports buddies is. It is not the words that are so much the issue as the particulars of expression.

The purpose of coming to Christ is not happiness, joy, all the feel good emotions we love. It is for the forgiveness and atonement for sin.

This thread has nothing to do with any of my previous posts. This is just something that's been on my mind lately.

The idea of a "personal relationship" with God may be popular. But just because something is popular doesn't mean it's biblical. For one thing, the idea itself never appears in the bible. In fact, whether you like it or not, the bible says Christianity is a religion, a good religion. James 1:26

I think this idea has done serious damage to the modern church. It results in us turning God into a therapist and trying to mold him into our own image. A "relationship" with God is done on his terms. It doesn't matter whether or not you like that. I may not like the way God does certain things, but I'm not the creator of the universe.

But more than just the words, the idea behind them is wrong. Consider this: if a “personal relationship with Jesus” is the solution, what is the problem? Maybe the problem is that you are lonely, or your life is empty, you feel meaningless, unimportant, and insignificant, hopeless with no direction. The personal relationship with Jesus promises to fix these problems, to fill the hole in your life that only Jesus can fill, to give your life meaning and direction. These are all the promises being offered. And now, with this personal relationship with Jesus, there is two-way communication where God will talk directly to you. You will be filled and fulfilled. Your life will have meaning and direction, you will be transformed. And you will directly experience the presence and the power of God, all of this if we make a decision for Christ, if we surrender our life to Him, if we make Him the Lord of our life.

I think that this summarizes Christianity for most Americans. And some of this sounds good. You might have that angst grinding up against your own soul, I suspect we all do in one way or another. None of us know what tomorrow may bring. None of us see completely how our lives fit in to the big picture of the universe. All of us have times of loneliness. But if this is our biggest problem, then Jesus wouldn’t need to die; He could just come and hang out.

But Jesus is the Good Shepherd who lays down His life for the sheep, and this means that the problem is much bigger than we might think. Jesus is the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, the Lamb who has been slain. Jesus is the One who hands Himself over to the shame of the cross, because our biggest problem is not our isolation. It is our sin running face-first into the holiness of God. God’s wrath is our real problem, because of our sin, and Jesus and His death and resurrection is our only possible hope.

To add to that, God is only my Lord and Savior, not my friend or anything like that.

The fact is, Jesus doesn’t make for a very good companion. He doesn’t talk back to you. He doesn’t laugh at your jokes. He doesn’t playfully hit you when you pretend to do something mean. He doesn’t show you something you’ve missed in the latest movie you saw, or make an insightful comment about the news. He doesn’t dance with you or sing for you or applaud when you play him a song on the violin. He doesn’t hug you or kiss you or hold your hand.

I think we can get carried away by the idea of God being our all. Yes, He is, but as God: not as friend, lover, or companion.

Even Adam, unfallen and enjoying complete communion with God, was lonely in the garden.

The modern hymn calls Jesus a "friend" and some may appeal to a verse in John where Jesus calls his disciples "friends". But the understanding of the word is decontextualized. People of the time of the Bible did not "get to know" each other as modern persons in the West do. A "friend" meant a person who looked out for your practical interests -- not someone you had beer and watched football with.

I would say that what is required of us is a patronal relationship with Jesus. The New Testament explains our relationship with God in terms of a client-patron relationship, one in which God, patron, is remote; and Jesus, as a broker, mediates between ourselves and God. Then we do have the indwelling Holy Spirit as a broker as well; but though the Spirit supplies us with mediation and perhaps power, there is nothing to show that the Spirit is some sort of intimate conversation partner.

And finally, since people of the ancient world seldom "got to know each other" personally (as is taken for granted in modern, Western society) there is no way that New Testament writers could have had an idea like a "personal relationship with Jesus" in mind in the first place -- not as we perceive it. The word "personal" is so broad in meaning that it could include a "patronal" relationship; but that is obviously not what most people have in mind when they use the word. They usually mean something like, God is approachable in the same way one of your sports buddies is. It is not the words that are so much the issue as the particulars of expression.

The purpose of coming to Christ is not happiness, joy, all the feel good emotions we love. It is for the forgiveness and atonement for sin.

The idea of a "personal relationship" with God may be popular. But just because something is popular doesn't mean it's biblical. For one thing, the idea itself never appears in the bible.

How about Revelation 3:20, "Behold, I stand at the door and knock, if anyong hears My voice and opens the dooor, I will come in to him, and will dine with him and he with Me." Or how about John 14:23 where God the Father and God the Son made their "abode" in a believer?" And how about Acts 2:42, where we have fellowship with God as well as with other believers.

Hello HistoryPrincess,

I absolutely love your post! You know why? Because you're being very real, open and honest with the cry of your heart! God hears you, and so do I!

The personal relationship we have with God is in the spirit. It is not in the natural realm. When Jesus returns to Earth in His physical body, then we will have a physical face-to-face relationship with Him, but for now - it is a spiritual personal relationship.

Just like we have 5 senses (smell, taste, touch, sight, and hear) in the natural realm, we also have the same 5 senses in the spiritual realm - this is where we communicate and commune with God.

Being saved is only the beginning - Jesus baptizes us with the Holy Spirit and Fire. Being indwelt by the Holy Spirit is like being a cell phone that is "activated." We can now send and receive messages; however, keep in mind - like a cell phone, we've got to get plugged in and recharge or else we lose power and connection.

I shall say a prayer for you.........

Dear Heavenly Father,

Thank You for HistoryPrincess. Fill her with Your Holy Spirit. There is a desire and hunger in her to know You personally. Lord Jesus, baptize her with the Holy Spirit and quicken her spiritual senses to connect with you. Forgive any and all sins with the Blood of Jesus. In the Name of Jesus, amen.

Christ or the anointing Holy Spirt of God has come in the flesh as a one time outward demonstration of God pouring out His unseen Spirit on the flesh .As the Son of man Jesus informs us the flesh profits for nothing.

The Spirit of Christ is here indwelling the believer. (heart to heart) There will not be another demonstration as what some call literal face to face as if we did walk by sight . God is not a man as us, never was never could be .God has no beginning of days or end of Spirit life. He remains without mother or father (a nature) but is supernatural (no beginning).

Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.2 Corinthian5:16

The face of God is in respect to the glory of God it will be part of the new heavens and earth. The Sun and the moon will be under the feet of His bride the church . Its the end of time the beginning of eternity. the former things will not be rembered or ever come to mind

And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.Revelation 21:22=24

do we really need to be sarcastic in replying ?
maybe this person is searching , who knows

saying things like " when was the last time you flipped a page in the Bible " seems sarcastic to me

( no offense 7seas )

Just think maybe we could try being more loving , thats all